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TheDeath
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posted January 28, 2009 08:37 PM |
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Yeah, they're just incompetent and can't keep their own people under control.
After you "crippled" them, of course it's so easy to do it. 
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DagothGares
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posted January 28, 2009 08:38 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Yeah, they're just incompetent and can't keep their own people under control.
After you "crippled" them, of course it's so easy to do it.
If you're the most widely voted political faction in your 'country', shouldn't it?
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Geny
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posted January 28, 2009 08:39 PM |
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We "crippled" everybody, the others shouldn't be in a better state than HAMAS.
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TheDeath
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posted January 28, 2009 09:03 PM |
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Crippled, including the police 
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Geny
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posted January 28, 2009 09:14 PM |
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Sorry, but I just can't see how does that go against what I've said a post earlier?
I'm not denying that we damaged HAMAS's possibility to control other groups (even though their political ability was not harmed and they still should be able to give orders not to fight), but we also damaged the other groups, so they should be easier to control. Am I wrong?
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TheDeath
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posted January 28, 2009 09:20 PM |
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Not sure. For example, if a place is crippled totally, crime will rise as there is no one to stop them. Now, I may not be talking about terrorists, but damn sure burglars will amass because there's no one to stop them.
Even over-zealous common civilians can do nasty things under such conditions.
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Geny
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posted January 28, 2009 09:27 PM |
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but damn sure burglars will amass because there's no one to stop them.
Providing there's anything worth to steal...
Anyway, I think you're underestimating HAMAS's abilities. It's no secret that they still have quite a large force left. Even with all the policemen killed in the war, there should be more than enough soldiers to maintain control.
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TheDeath
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posted January 28, 2009 10:25 PM |
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But why would they?
After all, it's like you actually blame them for not cleaning up after Israel's mess. You can't blame them for that (they might even actually want to have a few zealous civilians ).
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Geny
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posted January 28, 2009 10:54 PM |
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There are plenty of people on our side that want to go and kill some Palestinians, but you don't see our government letting them do it (at least not without severe consequences), do you?
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DagothGares
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posted January 28, 2009 11:08 PM |
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But why would they?
Because they actually care about palestina?
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TheDeath
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posted January 28, 2009 11:38 PM |
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There are plenty of people on our side that want to go and kill some Palestinians, but you don't see our government letting them do it (at least not without severe consequences), do you?
Was your 'government' attacked recently?
I mean, you go, wreck havoc there, leave them without police (well let's go to extreme), then DEMAND that they "clean it up" with their soldiers after you?
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Because they actually care about palestina?
Hamas?
If anything this will make them even angrier at Israel
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DagothGares
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posted January 28, 2009 11:42 PM |
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I don't care whether they're angry at Israel, they still have to protect theit OWN 'citizens' don't they? Isn't it the job of a government to do that? (I'm not saying that the HAMAS do this, but it's a valid reason, you're practically saying that they want to screw over Israel by twisting their own neck...)
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TheDeath
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posted January 28, 2009 11:44 PM |
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It would have been their job before Israel wrecked havoc
They don't have any 'obligations' and they exploit this -- Hamas sure ain't happy, that's for sure.
(not saying I agree with them, just stating a neutral POV).
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Moonlith
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posted January 29, 2009 02:41 AM |
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Are there still rocks being thrown back and forth in that sandbox over there?
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Geny
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posted January 29, 2009 11:28 AM |
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@Death
My country was attacked recently, but that doesn't mean that some radical group in Israel was allowed to attack the Palestinians.
HAMAS does have the obligation to care about Palestinians because it still the rightful government, so they should control their own people, or at least try to (I didn't hear some HAMAS representative stand up and say "stop the violence"), because if they won't, we will and then the whole story will repeat itself.
P.S. Yesterday 3 rockets were fired on the Israeli city of Shderot. I don't know who took responsibility for it, but I highly doubt that an act like this would occur without HAMAS's concent, whether active or passive.
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posted January 29, 2009 11:51 AM |
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P.S. Yesterday 3 rockets were fired on the Israeli city of Shderot. I don't know who took responsibility for it, but I highly doubt that an act like this would occur without HAMAS's concent, whether active or passive.
No I do not think that Hamas can magically hold the entire area under its control. They are a BROKE government, they have been under embargo for 18 months. Jeez.
But the fact that Hamas hasn't condemned the strikes (haven't seen that in news at least) is counterproductive. Now it almost very well be the same if it was Hamas doing the strikes.
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TheDeath
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posted January 29, 2009 07:05 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 19:07, 29 Jan 2009.
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HAMAS does have the obligation to care about Palestinians because it still the rightful government, so they should control their own people, or at least try to (I didn't hear some HAMAS representative stand up and say "stop the violence"), because if they won't, we will and then the whole story will repeat itself.
If it were their 'rightful' government then you shouldn't have meddled into their affairs. Obviously, Israel doesn't like this 'rightful' government (and I don't blame them) because it fires rockets at them. But, after trying to establish some control on it, i.e you meddled into their affairs, then you DEMAND that they 'change' or do something (which they wouldn't need if you didn't interefere)?
It's like going to one of your car-repair employees (let's say), then taking away all their tools because you don't like them (the tools), replacing them with some of your own, and then DEMANDING that they go and still repair the cars with YOUR tools (which they probably don't want to use). Now of course the situation would be different because you actually PAY them for that. HAMAS doesn't get any reward for doing what Israel wants and it has no obligation to do anything and care for its own people AFTER they were disturbed. Why should they, let's say, put the military to keep order, because you crippled their police? They had order before (well technically), you interfered, don't demand anything.
You got and disturbed their business --> don't expect them to repair the car anymore. (this is, if you didn't even pay them).
(and they exploit this  ).
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Geny
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posted January 29, 2009 08:51 PM |
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If it were their 'rightful' government then you shouldn't have meddled into their affairs.
'Their' affairs stopped being theirs when they attacked our civilians. And notice that even though many said that we should remove HAMAS from power we did not, so we didn't meddle in their political affairs.
And if that repairman would use his tools to bang up my car instead of fixing it, than hell yeah I would've taken them away and still demand he does his job.
Btw, when I said HAMAS had obligations, I didn't mean to Israel (even though they do because they agreed on a cease fire), I meant to their own people who chose them. Even supposing that HAMAS cannot control the other groups (although I still doubt it), I will still see them responsible for each attack made until one of their leaders stands up and publicly announces that he condones those attacks, because until then (in my eyes) they are supporting those attacks with their silence.
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TheDeath
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posted January 29, 2009 09:33 PM |
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What I mean is that you can't really demand anything from them after you made. Yes they did attack your civilians -- I'm not debating whether your offensive is ok or not (that was previous posts). I'm talking about the DEMAND here -- i.e Israel demands that HAMAS now does X and Y, which would otherwise not need to (otherwise = before you 'crippled' them or whatever). To me that sounds like making a mess and then telling others to clean up after
And yes they are indeed supporting it with their silence, I didn't say I agree with them.
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del_diablo
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posted January 29, 2009 09:44 PM |
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Geny: Is Isreal annexing Palestina or is it the other way around? Do you have any clue on what people do when its about counter attacking?
If Norway had attmpted to annex Sweden i am dam sure they would the random people fireing homemade rockets over at us if they had the chance.
Isreal is annexing Palestina and they can barely keep up, in todays warfare a rain of random rockets is expected. In the middle ages there was extreme pillageing expected along with rape and random lawlesness.
To quote Fallout: "War never changes", its always a tragedy with loss of human life and loss of tecnology and valuable buildings. When talking about war that is someting to be expected.
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