|
|
Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
|
posted May 18, 2009 05:20 PM |
|
|
Pretty simple: you forget all of it after a short time. Depends on the person, but even if it's 6 months, you still do.
Thus, it IS worthless. The purpose of school is not to force you to work so you can get the paper and get out of there - what learning by rote promotes - but to actually TEACH you something useful in your future life. In the era of internet where you can check everything everywhere and don't need to run to nearest library (which happens to be 20 km away), you simply don't need to stress your brain with memorization of useless knowledge that you will:
a) never have use for
b) forget quickly
Instead, I'd focus on two things:
a) understanding of the subject. No need to learn definitions; you can check them, but it's important that you get the very concept of what you are trying to learn. As a student of Warsaw Tech, I often can recite a lot of information from my memory, but I just don't seem to get a grasp when it comes to understanding what am I saying. Can it get more of a waste of time than that?
b) maximizing the potential to find information. People can't even use google: on any forum, you can find topics containing questions which are answerable by like 10 seconds of googling. Even though google and other services are common knowledge, people for some weird reason are simply ignorant to the extreme and keep asking for stuff you CAN solve all by yourself with just a BIT of searching.
With those two optimized, you would never ever need to learn by rote again.
____________
We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
|
|
alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
|
|
posted May 18, 2009 05:22 PM |
|
|
Ok, so how would you want them to teach you instead - and I mean, I understand that you want to be able to understand the stuff, but how do you reach that point? What needs to be done specifically?
____________
What will happen now?
|
|
TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
|
|
posted May 18, 2009 07:14 PM |
|
|
How about you focus on teaching them the stuff instead of going "through the material" (or how is it called in english? I mean all the 'systematic' lessons) without caring if they get it or not -- as long as they get high scores on exams (doesn't matter if they cheat), and you've done your job as a teacher, all's ok right?
How about teachers don't treat it as a job? The problem is that most just want to adhere to the system rules, and as long as that's ok, who gives a **** if the student actually understands the problem? He just needs to recite it in case of 'inspection'.
Here's another thing: how about you have 100% unexpected inspections, instead of being planned so they can plan out with the students to make it look good? 
Some centuries ago, in traditional japanese music teaching, for example, teachers were focused on students rather than the yearly material. And they didn't take notes, they first learned to play instruments intuitively with their teacher, then take theory on it. As you can imagine, theory is much easier to 'teach' because you don't even need to teach or focus on the students, they need to write homework or the notes themselves, if not, tough luck -- which is why it's popular these capitalist days (cheaper is better)
And frankly speaking alc, most teachers aren't very smart, because smart people don't go into teaching.
____________
The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
|
|
Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
|
|
posted May 18, 2009 07:15 PM |
|
|
Alci: Best way would be to describe it on an example.
So, I have a subject that basically teaches me about engines. I learn about types, their parts, and a thousand formulas are crammed into my skull, like the formula for spin speed of the stator.
I technically know a lot then, right?
NO, because noone has EVER told me how that thing WORKS using simple words. I don't need a formula with triple integrals, I need to understand the CONCEPT of an engine - with simple words - and eventually, go from there to more advanced stuff, but STILL without formulas (what are they for, I mean, is anything calculated manually nowadays? You have some sort of engineer software, ALWAYS... and if in doubt, you can check it.. in books, in internet, whatever.. why to memorize it?) and memorizing weirdly constructed sentences about the effect of magnetic field on the stator or whatever. I mean, I will eventually forget it anyway, and without knowing the basic concepts - how the engine works in detail, described in a simple way - I will end up as oblivious to the whole problem of engines as an ordinary person who has never studied in college.
In other words, college will be a major waste of time: It could be quickened by giving me the title instantly, because except of the paper, there is no other benefit: the knowledge evaporates, and the basic wisdom... just isn't taught there.
____________
We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
|
|
TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
|
|
posted May 18, 2009 07:19 PM |
|
|
100% agreed with the engine example 
Same thing in math high-school: math gives you stupid formulas for derivatives or integrals but without explaining what they do, or how to visualize them.
But me needing to solve 3D algorithms, I had to learn derivatives by myself. And I learned derivatives are a measure of change at an infinitesimal period of time. Really easy to visualize, really easy now to KNOW where to apply those formulas.
I mean, if you give me some formulas, and tell me to calculate the derivative of something, I can probably do that with high-school math.
But what about real-world example where I have to DECIDE where to use them? How can I do that if I don't know what they're used for?
____________
The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
|
|
Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
|
|
posted May 18, 2009 07:35 PM |
|
|
yeah, math is another good example. When I first learned about integrals and derivatives, I've been taught how to calculate them, but I didn't know WHAT they are, what they do, I completely couldn't explain or visualize what an integral is... It took time (and I had to learn on my own.)
Great approach to teaching.. >_>
____________
We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
|
|
xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted May 18, 2009 07:57 PM |
|
|
So I had my seasonal teacher chat with parents today.
It went really good.
Previous goals was to be more active in class (raise up your hand and show your knowledge) and to write finer.
I still write like crap. It looks ugly
But she said I only needed to write beautiful on the tests, because the teachers doesn't read your maths book etc anyway.
So the next goal is to get even better on the five big subjects, NO (Natural Oriented Subjects), SO (Social Oriented Subjects), English, Swedish and Maths.
Swedish: My favorite subject. We have explored Norse and Greek mythology. Everything good here.
SO: I had interesting and good opinions when we worked on Law and Order. Second favorite subject. Everything good here.
English: Average and easy subject since I have played WoW for years. She said something along the way that I worked to fast so sometimes there were many minor errors.
NO: Really need to work on this one. Average. Invite others in Group works, instead of writing everything myself because I think the whole text is destroyed when other people write on it with their lesser minds
Maths: Getting better and better results. She said she wanted that trend to contiune.
Athletics: I should show more that I can. Many times I think "No way that I can do that" "No, I will just make a fool out of myself".
Sloyd/Handcraft: Im a bit slow at the begining but when the actual sewing machine works it goes fast.
The Hello Kitty application im doing is for my little sister so it doenst need to look good...
Im looking forward for next year, the eight grade and the ninth year. Then I will finally get the cooking class or "House Knowledge". And sexual subjects which we already have on "Life Knowledge".
Its always fun to talk about these stuff lol. The school nurse told us to get a condom and train to put it on xD many of us are 13 but I turned 14 in April.
And Technology too, should be fun.
We also get our marks next year and I have high expectations 
This school year has been great and gone really fast although sometimes I cant bother to go to school (its not because of WoW).
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted May 18, 2009 11:25 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Same thing in math high-school: math gives you stupid formulas for derivatives or integrals but without explaining what they do, or how to visualize them.
When I learned them at school, they explained what they did and what they were for. And American education sucks, so...
____________
Eccentric Opinion
|
|
DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
|
|
posted May 18, 2009 11:28 PM |
|
|
Thank you guys... You make me appreciate my educational system, where you'll never get anywhere without understanding and skilled application of the material...
Though, it may just be the fact I study languages.
EDIT: Man, my spelling has become horrible.
EDIT2: Doesn't sound half-bad, does it?
____________
If you have any more questions, go to Dagoth Cares.
|
|
TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
|
|
posted May 18, 2009 11:48 PM |
|
|
Quote:
When I learned them at school, they explained what they did and what they were for. And American education sucks, so...
Really?
This might come off as obvious right now since we're talking about this very subject, but here's an example and I want you to be honest.
You face a problem: you have to determine by what amount you'll need to increase a variable over a period 't' (let's call it that way), for a polynomial. How many such additions you'll need and how many "delta" variables?
Say the polynomial is 2nd degree. To "step" through its values without recomputing the entire polynomial everytime (it would be stupid, and slow), how many variables you need to keep track of?
The answer lies in how many derivatives there are, until you reach a constant, because a constant always increases by 0 (doesn't increase, in other words) so it's pointless to have more.
This may sound technical but it's extremely obvious and easy if you can visualize it, something which school doesn't seem to promote. I've been called an autist before though, so I may be biased on this visualization thing (no, I've never done a checkup and thus "officially" diagnosed with it), but I cannot imagine how one would understand something without visualization.
____________
The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted May 19, 2009 12:26 AM |
|
|
It's easy, but I don't see what there is to visualise.
____________
Eccentric Opinion
|
|
TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
|
|
posted May 19, 2009 12:36 AM |
|
|
Quote:
It's easy, but I don't see what there is to visualise.
Hmm you do realize you're asking me to explain visualization which is impossible, it would be like explaining "how does green look like"... 
You can't THINK without visualization. Think about that.  (no pun intended)
____________
The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted May 19, 2009 12:48 AM |
|
|
|
TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
|
|
posted May 19, 2009 01:06 AM |
|
|
Oh ok, so you by simply thinking of the following piece of TEXT, you get the idea that you go an infinitesimal change
dx/dt = lim(t1->t0) [f(x+t1)-f(x+t0)]/[t1-t0]
or
dx/dt = lim(t->0) [f(x+t)-f(x)]/t
If you're honest, and you really understand the purpose without ANY visualization whatsoever, then I guess our ways differ.
____________
The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted May 19, 2009 01:20 AM |
|
|
Nah, I usually don't even think about that - I just think of the formula used to find the derivative.
Edit: On a completely unrelated note, I graduate from school on Saturday.
____________
Eccentric Opinion
|
|
TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
|
|
posted May 22, 2009 03:45 AM |
|
|
You mean tomorrow?
Grats mate, final week is worthless school-wise at least here anyway
____________
The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
|
|
winterfate
Supreme Hero
Water-marked Champion!
|
|
posted May 22, 2009 03:50 AM |
|
|
@Mvass: Congrats! 
Tomorrow's my last day as a junior. Wow...senior already. Time flies too quickly. Nex year I graduate from college...I hope. 
(I'll be a 4th year next semester, for those among you who don't use the freshman/sophomore/junior/senior system for describing college students. )
____________
If you supposedly care about someone, then don't push them out of your life. Acting like you're not doing it doesn't exempt you from what I just said. - Winterfate
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted May 22, 2009 04:10 AM |
|
|
Death:
Here in US Central Time Zone, it's still Thursday.
Final week is worthless school-wise? How about final year (or 90% of my school years)? There's really only one class in which I learned anything - and that's AP Bio, and the only place in life I'm going to use that is to lol at Hollywood Science.
winterfate:
Thanks. It's kind of sad, graduating and leaving... I'm not going to miss the school as an institution. But I will miss many of the people.
____________
Eccentric Opinion
|
|
Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
|
|
posted May 22, 2009 04:32 AM |
|
|
@mvass
Quote:
But I will miss many of the people.
In two years you won't be able to believe you had anything in common with any of them.
____________
I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
|
|
winterfate
Supreme Hero
Water-marked Champion!
|
|
posted May 22, 2009 04:40 AM |
|
|
@Corribus: That's not completely true.
I guess that's also due to the fact that everyone seems to walk down their own path after high school.
____________
If you supposedly care about someone, then don't push them out of your life. Acting like you're not doing it doesn't exempt you from what I just said. - Winterfate
|
|
|
|
This thread is pages long: 
