Heroes of Might and Magic Community
visiting hero! Register | Today's Posts | Games | Search! | FAQ/Rules | AvatarList | MemberList | Profile

<a href='http://www.game-advertising-online.com/' target='_blank'>Game Advertising Online</a><br> banner requires iframes

Age of Heroes Headlines:  
20 Dec 2014: A Christmas Gift: Random Skills in Heroes VII! - read more
16 Dec 2014: Introducing Shapers of Lore, Academy Line-Up Detailed - read more
10 Dec 2014: Heroes III HD Remake Announced for January 29th! - read more
5 Dec 2014: Website Update delayed, Community Q&A, new Vote on the way! - read more
24 Nov 2014: The Wizardsí Armies Have Arrived! - read more
14 Nov 2014: Dungeon Line-up Vote #2 Results! - read more
11 Nov 2014: HC Icon Contest, Sylvan Townscreen Vote #2 - read more
7 Nov 2014: Dungeon Line-up Vote Round 2, Sylvan Townscreen Part 1! - read more
2 Nov 2014: Dungeon wins, line-up vote starts! - read more
18 Oct 2014: Tidbits of Information from Twitch.tv Stream! - read more
20 Dec 2014: A Christmas Gift: Random Skills in Heroes VII! - read more
[X] Remove Ads
LOGIN:     Username:     Password:         [ Register ]
HOMM1: info forum | HOMM2: info forum | HOMM3: info forum | HOMM4: info forum | HOMM5: info forum | MMH6: wiki forum | MMH7: wiki forum
Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: The Dragon Slaughter
Thread: The Dragon Slaughter [ This thread is 43 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 (34) 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 ]
Salamandre
Salamandre


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted March 17, 2012 06:54 PM

The confusion was about every TDS package containing all DATA/s scripts, and game loaded syntax errors from them before map (!!! example), even if no wogify was scripted.
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Bersy
Bersy


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted March 17, 2012 08:28 PM

Afair, scripts are always loaded, but options are set to zero.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
JimV
JimV


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted March 17, 2012 10:29 PM

Salamandre and Bersy, thanks for your patience.  I am still somewhat confused by this collection of facts:

1) TDS works under WoG 3.58f, and I think also under Era ~1.9 (some saved games I have received for debugging have WoG 3.59 version numbers), without the problems encounted under Era 2.

2) I checked a (WoG 3.58f) saved game and it contains all the Timed Event scripts, but no other scripts.  (The scripts are not in Timed Event order, which was the anomaly that I vaguely recalled in my previous comment.)

3) Most of the Data/s wogify scripts contain "claimed" function numbers, which are not disabled by UN:P options.  Example, from script07:

!?FU1100;  [Start of well fishing Function]
!!VRy5:S0 R3; random # 0-3 (obscure, monster, chest, tunnel)
!!PO998:N?y6; bit flags
!!VRy7:Sy6%2; bit flags mod 2, =1 if bit 0 set
!!VRy8:Sy7*-1+y6%4; bit flags - bit 0 mod 4, =2 if bit 1 set
... (no options tested)

That is, the event triggers for these scripts (e.g., Magic Well objects, in the case of script07) are conditioned by UN:P tests, but the functions called from those triggers are usually not conditioned, and these functions use Claimed permanent variables and flags.

Thus, if custom scripts used those same function numbers (and permanent variables, and flags), which WoG 3.58f ERM Help states is okay as long as the map is not wogified, and the wogify scripts are loaded as part of a game, there would be interferences.  I know of many WoG 3.58f maps with all custom scripts which use Claimed items.  (Also, it seems inefficient to trigger a function which was not intended by the map-maker, even if that function did not cause variable or flag or macro interference.)

My tentative hypothesis to explain these facts is that under WoG 3.58f all Data/s scripts were not loaded automatically, but under Era 2 they are.  Which is okay if true, as long as people understand this.  Also, if this is true, it might be simpler for people to keep a WoG 3.58f system folder to run old maps in, if they do not plan to develop these maps further.  Of course, it will also be good to have some old maps converted to Era for the sake of new players.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Bersy
Bersy


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted March 17, 2012 11:13 PM

Please try to copy script00.ert to script01.ert and run TDS on 3.58f. Seems that ert files will be loaded (not saved later) and there will be clash of string indexes. Same with 78 wogify.ert from Era and script00.ert found in TDS Data\s folder.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
JimV
JimV


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted March 18, 2012 12:13 AM
Edited by JimV at 00:15, 18 Mar 2012.

Bersy, your hypothesis is much better than mine as it accounts for more facts - namely, the "string index" part of the syntax error.  Yes, it makes sense that .ert files would be read into z-variables, perhaps at the start of a game, and that this might not be affected by the wogify P-setting.

Another fact which I just learned is that the TDS.rar file contains all of Data/s.  As I write, I don't remember any reason for it to be included, and suspect I made an archiving error.  As I said, TDS uses no Data/s scripts (or .ert files)(all its built-in WoG scripts have been de-ertified).  I recall that Woodmelon used some sound files in Data/reaver which are not in some WoG packages.  The only mentions of Data/s or Data\s in the TDS scripts are data\s\spells, data\s\tale2.jpg, data\s\tale3.jpg, and data/s/emerald.gif.  So I plan to delete everything else from TDS.rar/data/s [in fact, I just did].  If I had noticed this I would have done so long ago, and no doubt there would have been no Era 2 issue, so I am sorry for the effort and confusion this has caused.

Now I will try that test you proposed ... yes, when I start a new game I get that string index error, even though TDS does not use either script00.ert or script01.ert, although when I start a saved game I get no error, so perhaps the ert-z values are created at the beginning of a game and stored in the game file.  Your hypothesis is confirmed.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
master_learn
master_learn


Legendary Hero
walking to the library
posted March 18, 2012 10:22 AM
Edited by master_learn at 10:37, 18 Mar 2012.

Dr version

Bersy,if you converted Dr version too,would you post it as mod?

or

Could the three versions be included in one TDS mode?

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Bersy
Bersy


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted March 18, 2012 10:58 AM

Hmm, I deleted "spell" folder in my packages, will restore then.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
alisapa1211
alisapa1211


Famous Hero
posted March 18, 2012 01:09 PM
Edited by alisapa1211 at 13:13, 18 Mar 2012.

I'm playing the current Super DR version and there are something I would like to ask:


In the henchmen screen it states that he has about 6k dmg


In battles... This makes henchmen pretty much useless at this time (2nd henchmen can still give buffs and have much higher dmg)

Another thing:

My Magic Elements can get damaged by my magic after I have filled 8 slots of skill. I even upgrade immuned to Fire in the Emerald Tower but they still can be damaged.


I visited this shrine, didn't fight, but it still taught me Stone Skin. And now I can't get Town Portal anymore... Which is kinda annoying.

And sometime, even if I fill all the slots with upgrade troops I still receive Firebirds or Phoenix after combats.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
master_learn
master_learn


Legendary Hero
walking to the library
posted March 18, 2012 03:08 PM

magic

alisapa,for the Doctor all of his creatures get for free two second abilities-immunity to direct damage spells and receptivity to all helpful spells.
I suppose if you change these two slots you lose them in result.

Why you didnt fight Fiona?Only through victory against her you receive her spells!Further more you must have ressurection,animate dead and sacrifice with you.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
alisapa1211
alisapa1211


Famous Hero
posted March 18, 2012 03:16 PM

Quote:
alisapa,for the Doctor all of his creatures get for free two second abilities-immunity to direct damage spells and receptivity to all helpful spells.
I suppose if you change these two slots you lose them in result.

Well I know that, but they are Magic Elemental, they suppose to immune to all magic without that bonus. I feel it's kinda dumb to give immunity 5 to them, and IIRC I can't resurrect them even with Receptive...

Quote:
Why you didnt fight Fiona?Only through victory against her you receive her spells!Further more you must have ressurection,animate dead and sacrifice with you.

Because I can't?! The first time I visited it I didn't have enough army, have already fought 2 other shrines and have Implosion + Clone.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
JimV
JimV


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted March 18, 2012 03:41 PM
Edited by JimV at 16:08, 18 Mar 2012.

Master-Learn, I think if you install the current TDS.rar from Box.net as you would normally install a WoG map under Era, that all three map versions should work.  That is, I think the scripts do not need to be extracted (although this is very useful for development work using the F12 capability), and that the problem you had was caused by installing script00.ert from TDS.rar into your Era Data/s folder.  (Script00.ert should not have been in TDS.rar and is not anymore; in a WoG 3.58f folder it simply replaces the existing file with a duplicate, but under Era 2 it conflicts with, I think, script78.ert which uses the same z-indexes.  Or something like that.)

Alisapa1211, I will try to answer your questions, but I may tell you more than I know (as we used to say at my old job when we were a bit out of our depths).

Henchman:  this is a WoG 3.58f script which Woodmelon included in his map.  Before TDS, I had never used the Henchman script and have not seen any written descriptions of it, though perhaps a Google search would find some information.  My guess about the damage discrepancy is that in the Hero Screen the total damage for the troop is estimated.  That is, a level 85 Henchman has 85 troops in its battle stack, so the total damage is 85 times the damage of a single one of its creatures, which is the damage shown in the battle screen.  In other words, the Henchman script treats a Henchman as a single creature which increases its level continuously, rather than a troop which grows in number.

There is also I think a discrepancy in number (level) from the Hero Screen to the battle screen.  This is due to the special bonus the Super Doctor gets.  In version 2.07J (or 2.07E) you will not see this discrepancy.

The Second Henchman script was added to TDS by Woodmelon in version 2.05, which was the version which was translated.  It had a few bugs which had not been found at the time of translation, which have gradually been fixed as players reported them here.  One of those bugs works out to the players' advantage - when troops are added to a human player's Hero at the end of a battle, sometimes those troops are transformed by the Second Henchman script into a different type of troop.  Some experimentation will show you the circumstances under which this occurs, and then it will be a big advantage.  So I decided to leave it under v2.07Dr, as a sort of puzzle bonus for players.  (This may not have been a good decision.)  It will not happen in v2.07E or v2.07J.  Once you figure out when it will occur or not occur, you can decide to use it or not use it.

Magical Damage:  there are many battles against high-level creatures with all sorts of magical immunities, both innate and added by Woodmelon's scripts, in which the Doctor's magical abilities would be useless.  Since he is the Doctor, a Time Lord, he is able to go back in time with his Tardis and remove those abilities.  In order to remove innate abilities of creatures such as Magic Elementals, he must remove them from all such creatures, including his own.  Magic (high technology) has disadvantages as well as benefits, but when you face an army of 80,000 Magic Elementals, you will be thankful for it.  (Again, only the Super Doctor has this ability.  It is not in 2.07E or 2.07J.)

Fiona:  Salamandre added a warning about not visiting Fiona's Shrines (any Shrine of Magic Incantation, I think there are eight on the map) without having a spell to trade with Fiona.  There is also a "Rumor of the Day" (right-click Systems Options) about this.  As long as you have not visited all eight SoMI, you still have a chance to get another spell.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of puzzles and tricks in this map.  Some people like this and some get frustrated by it.  I added the Rumors of the Day to try to relieve some of the frustration, and continually ask players to suggest new clues which I will add.

My email program tells me another post has been made to this thread while I was typing this opus, so I will have to submit this, then see the next post and respond to it if necessary.

Update - on the question of applying Resurrection to Magic Elementals, the Doctor's Magic Elementals will not be immune to Resurrection (or any spell, enemy MR's can be Slowed, for example), but unfortunately only "alive" creatures can be resurrected and Elementals are not "alive".  (If the Doctor had Black Dragons he could resurrect them.) (If he had the Resurrection spell, of course.) (And yes, they could be made "alive" by MA:X but the Doctor tries to resist playing god as it is prohibited by Time Lord directives.)

Further Update - and this should probably be added to the Rumors of the Day - the Super Doctor gets his super powers from his Sonic Scewdriver (among other things he uses it to summon his Tardis so he can go back in time).  If this is not equipped, his Magic Elementals will retain their innate immunity.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
master_learn
master_learn


Legendary Hero
walking to the library
posted March 18, 2012 04:02 PM
Edited by master_learn at 16:08, 18 Mar 2012.

Maps

I havent installed any map under Era yet.
So I download the TDS package.

I will pay attention to what Bersy did with the E and J version.
I suspect I just have to put TDS in the mods folder and put only Dr map in its maps subfolder...

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
alisapa1211
alisapa1211


Famous Hero
posted March 18, 2012 04:02 PM

Well thanks for the reply I guess, one more thing is that where should I go to meet Tardis after visiting 4 Towers?!

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
master_learn
master_learn


Legendary Hero
walking to the library
posted March 18, 2012 04:16 PM

s

I see in the mod folder Bersy made that the s subfolder contains many and many files in comparison to the s subfolder in the download.
And also the download cantains spell folder,which Bersy mentioned some posts ago.

Maybe I should wait a little bit and pay further attention!

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
JimV
JimV


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted March 18, 2012 04:19 PM
Edited by JimV at 16:26, 18 Mar 2012.

Master-Learn, I would install the TDS.rar Data folder into the Data folder of your Era folder, if there still is such a thing in Era 2.  The update is for a WoG 3.58f update (h3Wupd.exe).  I believe it is unnecessary under Era 2 because Salamandre's improved catapult DEF has already been added to the standard Era DEF's.  So you need not extract the Update folder for Era 2.

Alisapa1211, you must to go to Romana's Tardis which is where you met and talked to Romana.  Recall that Romana asked you to find Fnord and learn the location of the Keys of Time, and then return to her.  When two Time Lords travel together, protocol is that they use the Tardis of the higher ranking one.  (Don't they teach Time Lord protocol in your schools?)

Update - Data/s - Two days ago TDS.rar had many unnecessary files in it, one of which caused a problem with Era 2.  The current version has (I think) only necessary files which will not cause Era problems.

Another way of saying this is that Bersy's current mod (thanks again for all your work, Bersy) which contains Data/s/spells, should work for all three TDS maps, if I understand what happened correctly.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Bersy
Bersy


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted March 18, 2012 04:27 PM

Quote:
Salamandre's improved catapult DEF has already been added to the standard Era DEF's

No, I didn't. Didn't know that there were any problems with catapults. I suppose, same problems as with tents.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
JimV
JimV


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted March 18, 2012 04:39 PM

Bersy, I thought I read somewhere in the Era thread that smcata.def had been updated as part of the package.  If not, perhaps you added it to your TDS mod.

The issue, from my fallible memory, but reported more accurately several pages up-thread, is something like this:  the WoG War Machines (I?) script (another WoG option I had never used before TDS) adds a Catapult to some battles, and changes the creature type to Magog so it will shoot.  Then if an enemy stack attacks it in the first battle round, it tries to retaliate, but the standard smcata.def lacks those frames and the game would crash.  Salamandre fixed this problem by adding the frames to smcata.def.  If I have this right, the same problem could occur in any map which uses the War Machines script, so Salamandre's improved DEF should be made standard under Era.  (Not that you need more work,)

By the way, to those who did not study Time Lords in school, if you google Tardis you will find that it is the machine which Time Lords use to time-travel, and stands for Time And Relative Dimensions In Space.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
master_learn
master_learn


Legendary Hero
walking to the library
posted March 19, 2012 06:39 PM

Example

My game with SuperHulk.

JimV,I just want to be sure you dont consider this as a cheat.
I am all for it and it dont make problems ,just for you to know if you dont!

My 1st henchman,level 9:



Here,my first henchman in battle:



He is level 21 in the battle.

If its ok with you,everybody is happy!
If not you may want to change it.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
JimV
JimV


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted March 19, 2012 08:03 PM

Master_Learn, thank you for trying the Super Hulk version.

As I mentioned previously to alisapa1211, the level of the Super Doctor's Henchman increases in battle because of the same bonus which gives him increased Sorcery skill.  The same is true of the Super Hulk and his Offense skill.  Originally this bonus was even higher for the Doctor, but I scaled it back.  It does not occur in versions 2.07E or 2.07J.  I think it is more important for the Hulk than the Doctor.  The Doctor could probably manage at the 4x creature level without it using his spells, but I am not sure the Hulk could.

However, there is something else which perhaps I should change.  I was thinking more about the following statement, and I think I gave bad information in response to it:

"And sometime, even if I fill all the slots with upgrade troops I still receive Firebirds or Phoenix after combats." (alisapa1211)

As I mentioned, there is an unintended feature (bug) in the Second Henchman script which could cause this in some circumstances, but I had forgotten that there is also a planned (by Woodmelon) effect which does this, which is more likely the cause.

When the Doctor gets elementals at the end of a battle, this message is shown:


!!IF&1000:Q1/21/y9/1^The Doctor uses the life force of the dead enemies to summon %V1072 %Z2.
Some artifacts can increase the quantity and quality of the summoned creatures.^;

Part of what "quality" means is that if the Doctor wears either the Ring of the Magi or the Suit of the Celestial Warrior, there is a 5% chance of getting a Firebird, Phoenix, or Sacred Phoenix (or Hydra--Hell Hydra if the Hidden Race is chosen).  This effect was scripted by Woodmelon and applies to all versions of TDS.

I guess Woodmelon intended this as a lucky bonus, but really, if one has decided to accumulate a particular creature (in my case I want Storm Elementals since they are shooters and I can protect them with Sacred Phoenixes; alisapa1211 prefers Magic Elementals, which attack all around with no retaliation), getting some other creature instead can be unwelcome.  So perhaps I should change this.  Maybe the bonus should be twice as many of the chosen creature, instead?

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
master_learn
master_learn


Legendary Hero
walking to the library
posted March 19, 2012 08:18 PM

:)

Quote:
twice as many of the chosen creature, instead?



Chosen creature by whom?

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
[ This thread is 43 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 (34) 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 ] < Prev Thread . . . Next Thread >
Post New Poll †† Post New Topic †† Post New Reply

Page compiled in 0.1127 seconds