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Heroes Community > Heroes 6 - The New Beginning > Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~
Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~ [ This thread is 525 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495 496 497 498 499 500 501 502 503 504 505 506 507 508 509 510 511 512 513 514 515 516 517 (518) 519 520 521 522 523 524 525 ]
LRN
LRN


Adventuring Hero
posted October 11, 2011 05:02 AM

Quote:
So is there any plans to buff Inferno after all?

I've been wondering about that for a while, that these guys are seriously underpowered.


But I would still buff demons, Gating is the hardest faction ability to use. This is a major balance issue, I hope they're looking at it.


I certainly hope so. Heroes VI has unexpectedly managed to make me genuinely like the Inferno faction, a feat that no other HOMM has ever achieved.

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Avirosb
Avirosb


Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
posted October 11, 2011 05:25 AM

How did it manage to accomplish that?

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DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
posted October 11, 2011 05:51 AM

2 days and counting...

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Dave_Jame
Dave_Jame


Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
posted October 11, 2011 06:21 AM

Quote:
How did it manage to accomplish that?


It introduced crappy alternatives? Made it the only Nice looking faction whit a lookable town and.

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LRN
LRN


Adventuring Hero
posted October 11, 2011 06:32 AM

Quote:
How did it manage to accomplish that?


The current lineup. For the first time in an inferno army I like all units...I was quite surprised. As far as I am concerned, basing the units on a sin each was a good move and so was replacing the imp with the maniac but keeping them in game with the breeder(a unit like none seen before in any HOMM incarnation), giving a succubus actually looking like a seductress and redesigning the horned demon, leading us to the Juggernaut. I miss a bit the classic devils, but I only liked their HOMM3 design.

Then again, someone else might hate the new Inferno. It's all subjectve, after all.

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Elvin
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted October 11, 2011 06:44 AM

Personally I very much like their gameplay. Lacks the H5 gating micromanagement while still offering a good dose of madness
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kodial79
kodial79


Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
posted October 11, 2011 07:19 AM

Concept-wise, H6 Inferno is my least favorite, when compared to H3 and H5 ones. H4's Infernopolis ofcourse is a loathsome abomination that should not exist!

More in-depth, I like the gameplay of H5 Inferno better however with a reasonable buff, H6 Inferno's gameplay has the potential to become even better than H5's. H3 Inferno has no dinstictive gameplay save for tactics you can devise on the spot with your troops but that's a quality every faction of every Heroes game has.

When it comes to the creatures though, this is where I like H6 Inferno the least. If the troops of inferno as you say, each of them represent a sin, it is lost on me.

The designs for the creatures of H6 Inferno are good, save for the Breeder's imp and the two-headed Hell Hound/Cerberus, which I think is another victim of the budget issues just like the light and water elementals. Maniacs and Tormentors are good but they would not be my choice for an Inferno line-up. Pit Fiends look better than ever and the Juggernauts are an instant classic but I think I like H5's Succubi better than H6's.

Probably my All-Star Inferno line-up would be like this:

CORE:
H5 Imp
H3 Cerberus
H5 Succubus

ELITE:
H3 Efreet
H5 Nightmare
H6 Pit Fiend or H5 Pit Fiend if the H6 one is just too much.

CHAMPION:
H3 Devil


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Avirosb
Avirosb


Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
posted October 11, 2011 07:21 AM
Edited by Avirosb at 07:25, 11 Oct 2011.

@LRN, thanks for the reply. I respect your opinion.
However, here's my opinion on the current Inferno lineup:

- Names such as Maniac, Juggernaut, Tormentor are not particulary creative.

- Actual mythological creatures had to go in favor of (IMO) rather generic Diablo-esque demons and a Balrog.

- The Cerberus no longer has three heads. Instead it looks like some kind of pansered, two-headed hellshrimp.

Quote:
Succubus actually looking like a seductress
There are so many things about this unit they could've improved upon.
Not giving it the face of a male, asian transvestite would be a start.
Making their grunts and noises slightly more sensual would be another.
The devil is in the details

- The Breeder kinda resemble H4's Venom Spawn, but only in that both are amorphous blobs with spikes and teeth.

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kodial79
kodial79


Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
posted October 11, 2011 07:35 AM

Quote:

- Names such as Maniac, Juggernaut, Tormentor are not particulary creative.


I agree with that, they lose part of their charm with these names. They should come up with something that would remind you of their hellish nature. But oh well, it's a very minor issue...

Quote:
- Actual mythological creatures had to go in favor of (IMO) rather generic Diablo-esque demons and a Balrog.


As opposed to H3's Gog & Magog who from biblical giants they got turned into fireball throwing imps? Yeah, right...

Quote:
- The Cerberus no longer has three heads. Instead it looks like some kind of pansered, two-headed hellshrimp.


Probably it's because of their budget limitations. They have to make one model for the one-headed hell hound, and one model for the three-headed cerberus. What? No! We of UbiHole believe in Equality! Two heads for each! And uh, just copy paste the model minus the armor for unupgraded unit... And voila! The worst cerberus to ever disgrace a fantasy game.


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Avirosb
Avirosb


Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
posted October 11, 2011 07:49 AM
Edited by Avirosb at 07:49, 11 Oct 2011.

Quote:
As opposed to H3's Gog & Magog who from biblical giants they got turned into fireball throwing imps? Yeah, right...
Well, Gogs and Magogs could be a lot of things, but I get what you're saying

Guess I just miss H3's A4 hell with its subtle touches of Bosch and Dante

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LRN
LRN


Adventuring Hero
posted October 11, 2011 08:11 AM

Quote:
@LRN, thanks for the reply. I respect your opinion.
However, here's my take on the current Inferno lineup:

- Names such as Maniac, Juggernaut, Tormentor are not particulary creative.

- Actual mythological creatures had to go in favor of (IMO) rather generic Diablo-esque demons and a Balrog.

- The Cerberus no longer has three heads. Instead it looks like some kind of pansered, two-headed hellshrimp.

Quote:
Succubus actually looking like a seductress
There are so many things about this unit they could've improved upon.
Not giving it the face of a male, asian transvestite would be a start.
Making their grunts and noises slightly more sensual would be another.
The devil is in the details

- The Breeder kinda resemble H4's Venom Spawn, but only in that both are amorphous blobs with spikes and teeth.



Certainly a valid opinion. Time for answers !
Oh, I agree, losing the third head was a blow. The rest I like, actually.

I'm not really certain about the actual mythological creatures but that's a matter of personal taste. Perhaps my opinion would have been different had different demons been chosen-say, something based on rakshasas or the rusalkas.

I assume by "actual mythological creatures" you mean the Nightmare, the Devil, the Efreet, the Gog, the Imp and the Succubus-I can't remember other Inferno creatures with mythological creatures. If I am mistaken, do correct me-it is quite an interesting suject.


The nightmare is mostly a combination based on a wordplay-there have been carnivore horses but as far as I know not associated with nightmares. The actual mares were not horses. Anyway, they are impressive but as units in an army? I don't know...I prefer them as mounts. YYMV of course.

I like the Efreet. A lot. But why associate it with inferno? As the dark mirror of the Djinni, I believe that they should be dungeon creatures. Something a warlock summons binds or makes deals with and unleashes against her enemies. One of the HOMM4 changes I actually supported.

I have already presented my opinion concerning the devils. By the way, I was under the impression than archdevils/archdemons would be bosses.

I never understood the inclusion of Gog and Magog-IIRC they were supposed to be vile humans in the bible? Of course, they were replaced by another mythological creature, i.e. the succubus.


As for the Breeder, there are indeed Lovecraftian influences in both of them.  The Breeder has a defined role in demon society though. This is the creator of the imps and a a creature associated with a specific Demon lord. The venom spawn is...well...just a weapon. It also has the advantage of having far less eyes and mouths. It may be amorphous, but it's not the blob with ramdom body members that the demon spawn was.

Of course, I can see your points. It's all a matter of taste (would you like your demon roasted or grilled? sort of thing).


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Dave_Jame
Dave_Jame


Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
posted October 11, 2011 08:19 AM
Edited by Dave_Jame at 08:25, 11 Oct 2011.

Quote:
Quote:

- Names such as Maniac, Juggernaut, Tormentor are not particulary creative.


I agree with that, they lose part of their charm with these names. They should come up with something that would remind you of their hellish nature. But oh well, it's a very minor issue...



Thay might not be very creative in English but they are one hell of a nightmare to translate to some languages.

How the hell can I tranaslate Juggernaut when there is no equivalent. Same goes fot tormentor.

On the other hand I cant imagine having a Mermaid as a unit. I so hope that there translation will eb Sieriens

So the naming problem is just a localization thing.

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Wckey
Wckey


Famous Hero
posted October 11, 2011 09:19 AM

http://www.3djuegos.com/juegos/analisis/9427/2/might-magic-heroes-vi/
A Spanish review gave the game a 8.8. Even if the game isn't perfect, it is a good thing that it receives good reviews, that will stimulate Ubisoft to invest more in the game.
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Avirosb
Avirosb


Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
posted October 11, 2011 09:22 AM
Edited by Avirosb at 09:26, 11 Oct 2011.

Quote:

The nightmare is mostly a combination based on a wordplay-there have been carnivore horses but as far as I know not associated with nightmares. The actual mares were not horses. Anyway, they are impressive but as units in an army? I don't know...I prefer them as mounts. YYMV of course.
Personally, I think Nightmares are more suited in a Lovecraftian faction.
I didn't really like the "hellmares" myself. I still want the Nightmare to be a equine creature though.

Quote:
I like the Efreet. A lot. But why associate it with inferno? As the dark mirror of the Djinni, I believe that they should be dungeon creatures. Something a warlock summons binds or makes deals with and unleashes against her enemies. One of the HOMM4 changes I actually supported.
I guess the explanation is that Efreeti belong to the Plane of Fire,
and the Kreegans wanted to set the world on fire or something like that.

Quote:
I never understood the inclusion of Gog and Magog-IIRC they were supposed to be vile humans in the bible? Of course, they were replaced by another mythological creature, i.e. the succubus.

According to that other wiki, there is no clear definition what Gog and Magog is.
They could be people, whole folks, and even geographical regions so why not a race of infernal beings?
I don't believe names have to be 100% etymylogically correct as long as it feels like the developers have put some effort in discovering them.
Besides, Gog -> Magog makes for a great basic/upgrade naming combo
I'm okay with the swap, I just prefer H5 succubi.

Quote:
The venom spawn is...well...just a weapon. It also has the advantage of having far less eyes and mouths. It may be amorphous, but it's not the blob with ramdom body members that the demon spawn was.
Ture. I think that creature belonged in the Asylum faction.
Embodiments of chaos are often depictured as amorphous blobs and Asylum was certainly chaotic.
Maybe there's some lore in-or-outside the campaign that could better explain their existance, but I dunno.

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admira
admira


Promising
Famous Hero
posted October 11, 2011 09:30 AM

any words about the "surprise" Znork mentioned back then? in the review?

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SKPRIMUS
SKPRIMUS


Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
posted October 11, 2011 09:52 AM

<GROAN> review mentioned poor AI......I'm just shaking my head at this & when did they originally want to sell it?
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Hope defeats despair - "a blatant clue"
too many idiots in VW
"to lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose"
bashing orcus

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Elvin
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted October 11, 2011 10:10 AM

Well it is. The good AI will be in the actual release, otherwise we all knew how much the demo/beta AI sucked.
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We are Groot.

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Dave_Jame
Dave_Jame


Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
posted October 11, 2011 10:11 AM

I just feel a unnescesarylly large focus on MP that spoield by the lack of Micromanagement and crippeld by the simplification of several mechanics (Skill, magic, portals)

Thay aim this game to be the best one for MP in the series, but I do not think that it will.

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kodial79
kodial79


Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
posted October 11, 2011 10:26 AM
Edited by kodial79 at 10:27, 11 Oct 2011.

Quote:
Well it is. The good AI will be in the actual release, otherwise we all knew how much the demo/beta AI sucked.


That's what they say or do you know for sure?

Because I'm sure that if we had asked them before the Beta how the AI is gonna be like, they would claim that they would create the best AI possible. Any doubts about that? Well, we all saw Beta's AI.

So far, we got nothing but their word. To me, that's not much. AI is not like a bug that you can fix. It will not be so easily improved in the very little time that they've got from the Beta's last version to Gold status.

To be realistic, I don't think we're gonna see any good improvement on AI but maybe after a couple of patches, we'll get there.  
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SKPRIMUS
SKPRIMUS


Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
posted October 11, 2011 10:28 AM
Edited by SKPRIMUS at 10:55, 11 Oct 2011.

Elvin wrote
Quote:
...The good AI will be in the actual release...
But the review I read dated 11 Oct did not think so??? (link was posted by sylvio in news thread http://www.gry-online.pl/S020.asp?ID=7808)...or else the word review has strange meanings in different countries...hmm I wonder

edit: @Dave_Jame: I wouldn't really say there's much emphasis on MP if NO SIM TURNS...I do agree they tried too hard to remove all random luck-based circumstances like which skills pop up & which spells you get in mage guild & less effects of morale/luck & no random atb...makes it seem like they focused a lot on balanced MP...however chess (which I don't play) also has little random luck-based circumstances too so we'll see...I think skill system 'seems' harder to optimise due to variety of choices available & different factional effects/interactions but that's just first glance
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Hope defeats despair - "a blatant clue"
too many idiots in VW
"to lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose"
bashing orcus

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