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| Thread: Predictions and Arguments For 4th Faction |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 10 ... 20 21 22 23 24 · NEXT» |
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Jackson
Known Hero
Random Spirit Lover
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posted September 27, 2010 06:24 AM |
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Poll Question:
Predictions and Arguments For 4th Faction
This poll is not for what you want the 4th faction to be, it is for what you believe it will be. Please explain your argument as well. If you have don't have an opinion on what the 4th faction will be, please go ahead and poke holes in other people's arguments. : )
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted September 27, 2010 08:51 AM |
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Presuming it's about my realistic expectations?
I'm going with Sylvan even though I'd much prefer it if the 4th faction was dungeon. (with 66.6% less Dark Elves then the HV one.)
I also made this prediction on the official boards so I am just going to copy paste my rationale.
Quoted by Mr.Dragon here: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5861060878/m/9071076388
"Personally, though I loath to admit it, my bet is on Sylvan to keep the Alignments balanced.
I'll show you what I mean:
Inferno: Dark
Necropolis: Dark
Haven: Light
4th Faction: Light
5th Faction: Neutral
Next we have the tilesets.
Plains, twice, summer and autumn.
Has always been the home ground for Haven/Castle and Sylvan/Rampart.
Lava belongs to Inferno.
Wasteland belongs to Necropolis, they actually said this.
Underground belongs to Dungeon but is included for gameplay reasons anyway.
Jungle which doesn't strike me as elf territory. (it strikes me as Fortress territory but that's not what we're discussing here.)
So going by Territory, presuming Jungle isn't for the 4th faction home ground it would have to be Dungeon or Sylvan.
Again Sylvan would probably balance the Dark vs Light factions.
What do you guys think? and more importantly why?
Finally I would like to include that I hope it's Dungeon despite all that, and that the Black Dragon is leading the way as usual."
Hope that clarifies my standpoint.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted September 27, 2010 09:09 AM |
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Yes, I agree with MrDragon on pretty much every conclusion. Furthermore, one should add that:
- Academy seems to be out, as Necropolis seems to take the place of contemporary Academy (capital = Silver Cities, etc.).
- Elves were mention in a discussion of the different playstyles of the factions - it might just be an example, but I think it was a slip.
- I think the storyline wouldn't favor Dungeon as a major faction yet, although I'm not certain on the details on that part.
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What will happen now?
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Danny
Famous Hero
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posted September 27, 2010 10:41 AM |
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I really don't know at this point, it can be either of them. I agree with alcibiades' reasoning about Academy, however, they mention Wizards in relation with Necropolis way too often (not just pdfs but the Facebook stuff too), but that might be for an expansion.
I think what's going to settle this is that whether the 5th, brand new faction wants to be a heavily magic-user or a nature-based race so they would replace one of the 2 which makes the other one stay.
And it's also not impossible that they are including Dungeon only because they want the Black Dragon to kept at least, plus it all depends on the story, either they found a way to implement Dark Elves, either both elves are absent simply because of the story.
Argument against Sylvan is that their lineup is too "classic" to be shaken up so instead of "ruining" it for some fans they chose to leave them out.
Plus, I know it's not one of the options, but I can't rule Stronghold out either, they'd be fitting for the autumn plains and a non-magic faction could be crucial to make the factions different enough. But this can also be debunked if the 5th faction won't have magic at all...
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radox
Known Hero
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posted September 27, 2010 11:04 AM |
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Five factions? I read somewhere that there will be TEN factions?
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Nelgirith
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted September 27, 2010 11:08 AM |
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Quote:
Five factions? I read somewhere that there will be TEN factions?
You've been reading wrong things. It said that out of the 10 EXISTING factions THROUGH ALL Heroes games, there would only be 5 in H6.
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted September 27, 2010 11:29 AM |
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Whilst I agree those are all good possibilities I don't agree with the Sylvan/Rampart line-up being to classic bit.
First off, a good chunk of both the Haven and Necropolis line-up revealed so far seems quite classic on the whole with a few minor alterations.
The Sylvan/Rampart faction has through the series seen the coming an going of a rather large number of units, larger variety then Inferno, Haven and Necropolis put together I'd even dare say.
Inferno has been quite static despite warranting the most change out of all of them since it's introduction, as going by mythological standards there are STAGGERING amounts of different demons/devils/fiends.
(In fact they recently were quoted as saying that Inferno being a faction of chaos has a 1000 faces which we're still only just discovering.)
Uhm... my train of thought went speeding off there a second... back to Sylvan.
Lets look at the line-ups through the years.
HoMM:
Sprite
Dwarf
Elf
Druid
Unicorn
Phoenix
HoMMII:
Sprite
Dwarf
Elf
Druid
Unicorn
Phoenix
HoMMIII:
Centaur
Dwarf
Elf
Pegasus
Dendroid (Treant)
Unicorn
Green Dragon
HoMMIV:
Sprite
Wolf
Elf
Tiger
Griffin
Unicorn
Faerie Dragon
Phoenix
HoMMV:
Sprite
Blade Dancer (Elf2)
Hunter (Elf)
Druid (Who is also an Elf)
Unicorn
Treant
Green Dragon
Clash of Heroes:
Bear
Sprite
Elf
Druid
Stag
Unicorn
Treant
Green Dragon
Ok so 1 and 2 are identical, but beyond that, Sorceress/Rampart/Sylvan has juggled a LOT of creatures through it's faction.
1 and 2 have identical line-ups.
3 introduces 4 new creatures
4 introduces 4 new creatures
5 introduces 1 extra variety of elf and beyond that is a mix of the HoMM1/2 and HoMM3 line-up.
Clash of Heroes introduces 2 new creatures.
So not counting HoMMV's sword elf, the faction has had a grand total of 16 different creatures as part of it's line-up.
There is MORE then enough room for change within the subject matter.
Nature, much like Demons covers a LOT of ground.
Infact, I'll rip-off their Inferno quote and modify it slightly.
"Nature has a thousand faces we've only just started discovering."
Again I would like to stress the fact that I am not particularly fond of this faction and much prefer a more monstrous one.
But it's not a bad, boring or creatively restrictive faction by any stretch.
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted September 27, 2010 11:39 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Five factions? I read somewhere that there will be TEN factions?
You've been reading wrong things. It said that out of the 10 EXISTING factions THROUGH ALL Heroes games, there would only be 5 4 in H6.
Fixed. The 5th faction is a completely new one.
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Danny
Famous Hero
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posted September 27, 2010 11:58 AM |
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MrDragon, the pre H5 lineups don't really matter now because they used stuff like Dwarves and Centaurs that don't belong to Sylvan in the H5-6 universe. I said the static thing in relation of the last incarnation of Sylvan, when it was turned into an Elven faction. The non-elf units that are in H5 have been with the nature faction almost all along, and I don't see them changing that (plus the Treants are way too obvious now). With H6 set before H5, it wouldn't make sense to replace Pixies and Unicorn etc only to be "different for the sake of it".
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted September 27, 2010 12:13 PM |
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Edited by MrDragon at 12:31, 27 Sep 2010.
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I respectfully disagree, I think, or rather it is my opinion that there is plenty of room in the faction to shake things up.
Both the Treant and the Dragon are Heroes III entries and neither of them appeared in Heroes IV.
We've seen beasts such as bears, stags, wolves as a part of the line-up and it's not a stretch of the imagination they could make a re-appearance.
(I'd take a Bear over an elf with two swords any day... but I'd take anything over and elf any day...)
The Necro line-up has since it's introduction been significantly more static yet they are still (not confirmed) changing up the upper echelons with the sphinx and spider-magi/avatar of asha thing.
And the Ghoul is a delightful re-imagining of the rather boring zombie.
But lets not beat around the bush.
Creatures that could easily wiggle their way into Sylvan and feel perfectly at home.
Satyrs
Dryads (propper tree-nymphs, not blue faeries.)
Nymphs
Wisps
Coatls (my bet is they might turn up in a jungle/swamp faction though.)
Panthers (hey we had Bears, Tiger and Wolves right?)
Many large mythical beasts could be made into natural beasts.
Chimera's could be re-imagined for example.
Many many many options.
but I gtg now.
Whilst you have a sensible point, I don't think it's a strong one.
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Mike80D
Famous Hero
Map Maker
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posted September 27, 2010 05:02 PM |
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I voted for Academy for three primary reasons:
-I think the other "good" faction will be magic based (since haven is mostly might).
-They are the counter to Necropolis, who we already know is in H6. It will also add to their ability to have this rivalry as a storyline.
-I think the Academy faction is one of the core factions that they try like heck to include, especially the use of Titans, etc.
Honestly I'd be happy with most any faction, but I am hoping they switch out a number of the creatures and concepts to make it more fresh.
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MagniBronzeb...
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 27, 2010 11:48 PM |
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So it's jungle terrain. Then it's obvious what it will be! Some ultra boring aztec lizard race, which those priests and snow. Already seen... sigh 
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 27, 2010 11:56 PM |
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Very wrong guess 
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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Aosaw
Promising
Famous Hero
Author of Nonreal Fiction
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posted September 28, 2010 12:39 AM |
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I miss the snowy terrain. I would really like to see it return in H6, but I know that it's been said that we know what the terrain types are, and snow is not among them.
So, based on what we do know, I have a few thoughts on what we'll probably see.
First, based solely on the story, it seems a fairly safe guess to say that the fourth faction will be Academy. So much of what we've seen so far, in regard to Sveltana's story, is about defying the conventions of the Silver Cities. If she's suddenly on the forefront of a new war, the Wizards of the Silver Cities can't be far behind.
On the other hand, I don't see Sveltana being interested in Anastasia and not in whichever sibling is a Wizard. If one of the children is associated with the Silver Cities, his or her story is inevitably tied to Sveltana's, and it seems unusual (and not in a good way) that Sveltana would ignore this other sibling and then turn around to support that sibling's sister.
So I don't think it's going to be Academy. I think we'll see them return in an expansion, when the campaign leaders are no longer limited to the Griffin duchy's heirs, but not in the vanilla.
Among the remaining factions, that leaves Dungeon and Rampart. But if the Faceless are a possibility for the fifth faction, or even as a possible expansion faction, I don't see the dark elves showing up without their help. Which means that the fourth faction has to be Sylvan. I can't see what possible role they'll play in the campaign, but having elves present allows for a lot of gameplay opportunities: the World Tree that was described in another thread, the skirmish playstyle (similar, in some ways, to the necropolis's way of drawing out combat), and a vehicle to address the toll this new war is having on the earth itself.
And this has nothing to do with terrain types, but it matches what has been said. It's unfortunate, in a way, because I really wanted to see Academy return again. But having given it some thought, I don't see it playing out any other way while still serving the story.
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 28, 2010 07:10 PM |
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do beasts created by wizards already exist?
maybe there won't even be minotaurs! 
I can't imagine the titan or unicorn being out either 
but unicorns could be neutral. not titans, they are created by wizards if I remember well.
actually, what if sylvan wasn't a faction, but just a bunch of neutral creatures? (wasn't it the case with renegades?)
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vitorsly
Known Hero
Joker!
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posted September 28, 2010 07:57 PM |
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I voted for academy because:
Heaven-Good might
Inferno- evil might
Necropolis- evil magic
4th faction- Good magic? So academy
5th Faction- Neutral balanced? I hope it is fortress (H3! Dwarves give fortress a bad meaning!)
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted September 28, 2010 10:25 PM |
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I can't decide, either Academy or Sylvan.
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Jackson
Known Hero
Random Spirit Lover
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posted September 29, 2010 07:00 AM |
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Quote:
I voted for Academy for three primary reasons:
-I think the other "good" faction will be magic based (since haven is mostly might).
-They are the counter to Necropolis, who we already know is in H6. It will also add to their ability to have this rivalry as a storyline.
IF they're going for balance between the factions, then yes I agree that Academy makes perfect sense. It is true they already have a magic faction (Necro) but it is dark magic in particular, I imagine they would also have a "good" magic faction. It is possible, though, that they've turned Sylvan into a heavily magic-orientated faction.
Nevertheless, the good and bad Academy and Necro could be battling it out with each other in addition to fighting the war with the other kingdoms. But wasn't there an official civil war between the Necromancers and the Wizards that happened later on in the timeline? I'm not very familiar with the lore. I only know what I've read here and there in these threads.
Quote:
First, based solely on the story, it seems a fairly safe guess to say that the fourth faction will be Academy. So much of what we've seen so far, in regard to Sveltana's story, is about defying the conventions of the Silver Cities. If she's suddenly on the forefront of a new war, the Wizards of the Silver Cities can't be far behind.
On the other hand, I don't see Sveltana being interested in Anastasia and not in whichever sibling is a Wizard. If one of the children is associated with the Silver Cities, his or her story is inevitably tied to Sveltana's, and it seems unusual (and not in a good way) that Sveltana would ignore this other sibling and then turn around to support that sibling's sister.
So I don't think it's going to be Academy. I think we'll see them return in an expansion, when the campaign leaders are no longer limited to the Griffin duchy's heirs, but not in the vanilla.
Among the remaining factions, that leaves Dungeon and Rampart. But if the Faceless are a possibility for the fifth faction, or even as a possible expansion faction, I don't see the dark elves showing up without their help. Which means that the fourth faction has to be Sylvan. I can't see what possible role they'll play in the campaign, but having elves present allows for a lot of gameplay opportunities: the World Tree that was described in another thread, the skirmish playstyle (similar, in some ways, to the necropolis's way of drawing out combat), and a vehicle to address the toll this new war is having on the earth itself.
And this has nothing to do with terrain types, but it matches what has been said. It's unfortunate, in a way, because I really wanted to see Academy return again. But having given it some thought, I don't see it playing out any other way while still serving the story.
I really like how much you've thought about this. Once again, with my very limited knowledge of the lore, Sveltana is a powerful necromancer, right? If there are two sisters, both are gifted in magic, I could see Sveltana taking an interest in both, and one takes an interest back, while the other doesn't want to pursue necromancy, denies Sveltana, and practices the "good" magic of the wizards of the Academy. This could be part of the plot, potentially. If they did this, hopefully the details and the way they execute it are creative and compelling.
Also, this is probably even more far-fetched, and I'm not saying I believe this is the case, but isn't it possible that the two factions will share a native terrain. I mean, they said each faction has a native terrain, but they didn't say that each faction has its own unique native terrain seperate from the rest, right? A wasteland, depending on how they do it, could possibly be fairly desert-like, and since the wizards and necromancers are both in the silver cities at this point in time it wouldn't make a lot of sense for them to have different terrains. If this was the case, the autumn and summer plains would just be for seasonal variation and the underground would just be for expanding the maps.
Please correct if I'm totally mistaken on any of this. But remember that I'm only suggesting that all of these are possibilites, not that I believe any of them are what we're going to find in the game.
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Danny
Famous Hero
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posted September 29, 2010 10:05 AM |
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Edited by Danny at 10:08, 29 Sep 2010.
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I believe they did say each faction has a unique terrain assigned to it, so no sharing, and Academy in the wasteland would be too weird. The wasteland is not desert-like, it was seen in those pdfs and the town screen replacement image.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 29, 2010 10:17 AM |
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Edited by Elvin at 10:18, 29 Sep 2010.
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Wasteland is for necro. Visually it's quite decayed and devoid of life as you will see.
Btw the poll may be incomplete.
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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