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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: US Presidential Race 2012
Thread: US Presidential Race 2012 [ This thread is 59 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 (29) 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 ]
Vindicator Online
Vindicator


Supreme Hero
Right Back Extraordinaire
posted April 11, 2012 04:44 PM

For the military, he has gotten troops out of Iraq (correct me if I'm wrong), and it was during his presidency that Osama Bin Laden was killed.
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gnomes2169
gnomes2169


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
posted April 11, 2012 07:41 PM
Edited by gnomes2169 at 19:47, 11 Apr 2012.

1) It isn't in effect anyway, so this doesn't matter. And anyway, the individual mandate that penalizes those who do not have health care and forces people to buy healthcare will be struck out at the very least, if not the whole bill just to get a point across. The point being that the Supreme Court is made of cranky old mens who do not like glorified extortion. Since the bill is not part of society anyway, this point is invalid.

2) It took him three years to start, and the process is going at a crawl anyway. It might as well not be happening. This point is invalid.

3) Unless they have programs that they can list the second part of this point has no validity attached to it. Also, since Romney has not announced his plans for taxation or any truly concrete plan for any financial future beyond the stereotypical "I'll lower taxes!" (Not "taxes for rich people" but "taxes" as in all taxes), so the first part is invalid as well.

4) How. Ask the person to explain how he could possibly do this, since it is Congress that controls Medicare, not the Executive. This point is invalid.

5) This is a fearmongering, unfounded statement meant to rally moderates and liberals to the "Not Romney" side. Therefore, I would have to proclaim this invalid.

I would have to say that this is more of a disgruntled, bigoted rant that has no factual support (at the moment) than an actually legitimate list of complaints against Romney. Whether any of them is true remains to be seen, but I seriously doubt any but the first one might be, and even then that's only if the individual mandate/ bill isn't struck down by the Supreme Court.
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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted April 12, 2012 04:11 AM
Edited by Zenofex at 04:11, 12 Apr 2012.

I don't pretend to fully understand this but what exactly does "buy healthcare" mean? In my country (and most of Europe as far as I know) it's a common practice to have part of your salary go for healthcare insurance - is this the same thing? And if it is - why is it a bad thing?

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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted April 12, 2012 09:28 AM
Edited by Corribus at 09:31, 12 Apr 2012.

Quote:
I don't pretend to fully understand this but what exactly does "buy healthcare" mean? In my country (and most of Europe as far as I know) it's a common practice to have part of your salary go for healthcare insurance - is this the same thing? And if it is - why is it a bad thing?

Most employers offer membership in a group healthcare policy as a benefit to (full time) employment.  Most of the time employees are reuqired to cover a portion of the cost of this policy.  For instance, my employer negotiates a group healthcare policy (several actually) with a number of insurance carriers.  I get to choose which policy I want, and then a fraction of the cost of this policy is deducted from my paycheck each month.  My employer picks up the rest of the cost.  The amount I pay each month is only a small portion of what it would cost to get insurance on my own.  

There's nothing inherently wrong with this.

The problem comes when a person tries to get insurance on their own - for instance, if they are unemployed and don't have access to employer-negotiated insurance policies.  A major problem with the insurance industry is that single-user policies are very expensive really prohibitively so - and there is no reason they should be.  These costs are driven up by a lot of reasons, reasons that SHOULD be addressed by legislation; and many of these causes have nothing to do with the insurance industry at all. (For instance - high malpractice insurance costs for doctors and the lack of limits on what you can sue doctors for.) Unfortunately, "Obamacare" doesn't address any of the REAL problems of the healthcare industry.  Essentially what it does is make the federal government the de facto employer of everyone, and forces you to opt into the group policy the government negotiates on your behalf if you don't already have one in place with your employer.  Aside from the obvious Constitutional issue of whether the federal government has the right to actually force you to do this (I don't believe it does), it doesn't actually fix anything about healthcare's cost structure.  In essence it's just trying to fix a symptom of the problem rather than trying to fix the problem itself.

And finally, one thing I really cannot stand is the disingenuous rhetoric about how if the Republicans get their way, trillions of people won't have healthcare - case in point, the image on the previous page of this thread.  In point of fact, this bill is NOT about access to healthcare.  It's about access to INSURANCE.  A lot of people lose sight of that, and the intentional misdirection by the Obama administration about what the real issues are just for the sake of politics is borderline criminal in my estimation.  This administration was SUPPOSED to be about hope and change - changing the way politics are conducted in Washington.  You see now in fact nothing changed at all.  Had I voted for Obama, that little fact in itself would be enough to really make me rethink who I voted for in 2012.

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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted April 12, 2012 10:48 AM
Edited by Zenofex at 10:48, 12 Apr 2012.

Well, it is like that indeed, I understand why you think it sucks.
By the way - what does the healthcare insurance cover currently in terms of medical assistance, drugs, etc.?

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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted April 12, 2012 11:27 AM

Depends on the policy your employer negotiates on your behalf.  The biggest issue is that right now insurance policies aren't really competitive, and they aren't tailored to individuals.  Well, that and people view health insurance as a meal ticket that should cover everything rather than what it is supposed to protect them from: the monetary cost of catastrophy.  Imagine if auto insurance worked like health insurance: it'd have to cover gasoline, car washes, tune-ups, oil-changes, etc.  But auto insurance policies are structured really to only cover major accidents, to protect a person from having to purchase a whole new car in the event that their car is destroyed, or to protect a person from having to pay someone else's immense medical bills if they critically injure someone while driving.  This "catastrophe only" structure keeps car insurance premiums down -and it keeps mechanics charges down as well, because they can't just submit everything to an insurance company for reimbursement.  Imagine how high car insurance premiums and mechanics fees would not be if auto insurance covered everything.  Because mechanics would have to deal directly with customers, there'd be little incentive for them to have competitive cost structures.  The fee for an oil change could rise to hundreds of dollars (of course, insurance companies would negotiate this down, but if you don't have auto insurance - sucks for you!).  Insurance premiums would increase drastically also, because people would start submitting claims for everything.  Sound familiar?  Ever look at a hospital bill?  SALINE costs several hundred dollars.  If health insurance policies were structured to cover only catastrophic costs, people would go to the doctor less often and costs of pretty much everything would go down.

Consider this.  My house costs a lot more on a yearly basis to maintain than my body, even when accounting for the highly inflated cost of healthcare - but my home insurance premiums are only about 25% of what my health insurance premiums are.  Why do you think that might be?  It's because I can't submit a homeowners claim when I get the gutters cleaned or when I have to call a plumber to snake out a drain.

Meh, don't get me started on healthcare insurance.
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Elodin
Elodin


Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
posted April 12, 2012 06:26 PM

Expect Romney's lead to grow as he is now able to concentrate his efforts on defeating the Marxist rather than fighting for the Republican nomination.

Quote:

Republican Mitt Romney holds a slim edge over President Obama in a head-to-head matchup, a Fox News poll released Thursday shows. In addition, the poll finds the presidentís job rating has dropped to its lowest point of the year.

In a presidential matchup, Romney tops Obama by 46-44 percent if the election were today.  



Clicky
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gnomes2169
gnomes2169


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
posted April 12, 2012 06:41 PM

Let's see what the most unbiased polls say about the upcoming election right now...

Linky

Funny. Obama seems to crush Romney in almost every single one...
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Xerox
Xerox


Promising
Legendary Hero
Libertarian Mafia
posted April 12, 2012 06:52 PM

Good. I really hope you guys don't elect Romney.
The world begs you. Please, no World War 3? Please, no listening to Netanyahu? I know that a new Middle-Eastern war with Syria, Iran, Israel, Lebanon, possibly Russia, Turkey, Egypt, Saudi-Arabia etc is inevitable, but I've got a feeling that the republicans would probably make that ten times worse.

also lol @ Obama being a "marxist"
If Obama is a marxist then most of Europe is communist.
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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted April 12, 2012 07:16 PM

Xerox, you need to seriously get your head out of your other-word-for-donkey.

Ahem... anyway, polls won't mean squat until August or September at the earliest.

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gnomes2169
gnomes2169


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
posted April 12, 2012 07:46 PM

Quote:
Ahem... anyway, polls won't mean squat until August or September at the earliest.

A very excellent point. I do hope that we use proper, unbiased polls when they do matter though. (In 4-6 months or so)

@ Xerox: Dear Jesus man, give it up. Yes he's a republican, but the vast majority of republicans are not warmongering, genocidal, bloodthirsty conquerors. And do you know where Romney is from? He's a republican from one of the most liberal states in the union. He was, in fact, the governor of said state. To be elected by the people who live there, he'd almost more moderate than a corpse! You have no rational reason to be afraid of America becoming a genocidal dictatorship that starts WW3 from any of the candidates, least of all Romney and Obama. Calm down.
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Shyranis
Shyranis

Hero of Order
posted April 12, 2012 09:16 PM

Exactly... no matter who wins the US will just progress down it's slow, painful current path that gradually introduces laws restricting freedoms over time. But no matter what a politician says for attention, the chances of something very radical being implemented are actually very slim.
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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted April 13, 2012 07:40 AM

There are no "Marxists" in the US politics, there have never been and there will never be as far as I can tell. It's pretty much a fact that the US "left" is considered Europe's "right" and it is not the moderate one so talking about an ultra-left ideology in a distinctively conservative environment is laughable. Most of the people who use "Marxism" to describe Obama's policy (or any recent policy actually, including in Europe) are usually completely ignorant regarding the Marxism in general. Elodin is, of course, a prime example.
By the way what is the two main candidates stance towards a potential war with Iran?

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DarkShadow
DarkShadow


Legendary Hero
Cerise Princess
posted April 13, 2012 07:53 AM
Edited by Darkshadow at 07:54, 13 Apr 2012.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/mitt-romney-how-i-would-check-irans-nuclear-ambition/2012/03/05/gIQAneYItR_story.html

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/03/obama-vs-romney-on-iran.html

There is a few articles on that.

As you can see, Romney is more aggressive when it comes to Iran.

Also it seems he wants to massively increase the funding of the US military while simultaneously cutting all taxes everywhere, because ummmm...I guess he can piss liquid gold to fund all this?
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Minion
Minion


Supreme Hero
posted April 13, 2012 08:15 AM

Romney at least is not delusional, have the IQ of a rock, or just plain crazy as some candidates were. What he is though is a master of changing positions, which does have the potential of making him look like a weak leader. He was a pro choice, pro gay rights, pro environmental candidate before he decided to run for president.  

Also his main attack as of now is naturally Obamacare, which can only make one grin. Considering he mandated the same thing for everyone in Massachusetts 2006.

This is the same as about Iraq, which he now suddenly thinks was a bad move with the rest of the nation. Also before he opposed payroll tax cut extensions, not anymore.

Funny thing is, even with all this major league flip-flopping I find him better than any other Republican candidate after Ron Paul. He won't be good, but at least he won't be horribly bad either. Will be interesting to see what happens, as of now it feels Mitt is just "anyone but Obama"-candidate. He needs more support of his own to win.
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OmegaDestroyer
OmegaDestroyer

Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
posted April 13, 2012 08:24 AM

Quote:
Will be interesting to see what happens, as of now it feels Mitt is just "anyone but Obama"-candidate.


Ding ding ding ding ding!!!  We have a winner!
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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted April 13, 2012 09:58 AM

Quote:
Also his main attack as of now is naturally Obamacare, which can only make one grin. Considering he mandated the same thing for everyone in Massachusetts 2006.

Romney didn't mandate anything.  He was a governor, not a king.  Legislation is passed by a legislature, not an executive.  And in any case the bills aren't the same, and what is appropriate at the state level is not necessarily appropriate at the federal level.

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Minion
Minion


Supreme Hero
posted April 13, 2012 11:17 AM

Health Consultant, who was involved in making both Romneycare and Obamacare, Jonathan Gruber's verdict: "The core of the Affordable Care Act or Obamacare and what we did in Massachusetts are identical."

There is even a video where Romney thinks back in 2006 that it can be national model

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GunFred
GunFred


Famous Hero
Sexy Manticore
posted April 15, 2012 09:23 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVFdAJRVm94

This video is all you need to know that another four years of comrade Obama is good for America.

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RedSoxFan3
RedSoxFan3


Admirable
Legendary Hero
Fan of Red Sox
posted April 16, 2012 12:36 AM

I honestly hope that America doesn't elect Obama AGAIN. I don't think we've had a worse president. EVER
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