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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: US Presidential Race 2012
Thread: US Presidential Race 2012 This thread is 59 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 10 20 30 40 50 ... 55 56 57 58 59 · «PREV / NEXT»
Seraphim
Seraphim


Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
posted November 16, 2012 03:03 AM
Edited by Seraphim at 03:12, 16 Nov 2012.

The EU is pretty much dead as it is. With the Euro crumbling, there is no incentive to keep together.
Maybe they can do so with germany holding out and helping others but Greece is gone. They cant maintain the Euro. Others might follow and if that happens, the Euro and pretty much the EU is gone.
I cant say for sure because I dont watch news and I dont care about this anyway. I would predict, based on my understanding of the situation, that the EU will survive this, barely, and continue to "Function" as a blob economy, like the entire western world.
This "Cycle" will repeat every 20 or so years and we will have the same tragedy over and over again, unless some inter ethnic conflict arises.
Europeans love to tear each other appart so, there is no reason to hope that the EU offers peace or stability.
The US looks more coherent. But the way the dollar is devaluing, it will end up like the Yugoslav Denar. Completely worthless.
China seems to be unaffected by this, so they will become the richest nation in the future.
I guess the future of EU will be dominated by Chinese investments.
What a "pretty" sight?
Anyone care to enlighten me more about this issue? All I said before is based on the things I have read in the past and not now.
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Elodin
Elodin


Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
posted November 16, 2012 04:46 AM

Yes, there are petitions in all states and more than 675,000 have signed so far. Of course I don't think the movement is going anywhere yet. But Obama is the Great Divider and will continue to divide and destroy the nation.  Of course the lunatic left is spewing pure hatred towards those who don't want to embrace communism.

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blizzardboy
blizzardboy


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Prince of Poetry
posted November 16, 2012 05:35 AM
Edited by blizzardboy at 05:37, 16 Nov 2012.

Europe might eventually integrate because it has easier open travel now. That means more cross-border babies. I don't know if any successful integration ever occurred by the arm of treaties or initiatives. It can only assist in it. It's all about ****ing your way into unity. You want integration? Make multi-ethnic babies and you'll get it. The people strongly against it only have so long to live. Mortality and all that.
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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted November 16, 2012 05:38 AM

I.e.: "The problem with Scotland is that it's full of Scots!"
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blizzardboy
blizzardboy


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Prince of Poetry
posted November 16, 2012 05:41 AM
Edited by blizzardboy at 06:02, 16 Nov 2012.



Seriously though, despite the humor in it my post is also genuine. The relevancy of nationality and ethnicity gradually melts away when everybody starts ****ing everybody. Easy open access and travel is a prereq to that though and Europe has that now. That's how waves of different immigrants in the US got converted into an amorphous blob that simply became known as "Americans". The only ones that developed into independent subcultures were the black and Asian communities due to the much stronger differences that divided them from the majority. Crossbreeding is the key to solidarity. You gotta go in there and wield your dick into battle as though it were a bayonet.
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Seraphim
Seraphim


Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
posted November 16, 2012 06:19 AM
Edited by Seraphim at 06:20, 16 Nov 2012.

Quote:

You gotta go in there and wield your dick into battle as though it were a bayonet.


And then end up in a nation that wants sharia law,has more tensions between natives and immigrants and so on...
Then, depending on the laws of a nation, end up like Russia, completely hostile to everything "Good".



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Darkshadow
Darkshadow


Legendary Hero
Cerise Princess
posted November 16, 2012 07:56 AM

Quote:
Quote:

You gotta go in there and wield your dick into battle as though it were a bayonet.


And then end up in a nation that wants sharia law,has more tensions between natives and immigrants and so on...
Then, depending on the laws of a nation, end up like Russia, completely hostile to everything "Good".





You do realize that he was talking only about Europeans, not third world immigrants?
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xerox
xerox


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted November 16, 2012 01:53 PM
Edited by xerox at 15:57, 16 Nov 2012.

If the EU ended, which I don't think it going to happen, then that would be a huge step backwards. That being said, the EU has taken the opposite turn of its original intentions. It was not supposed to turn into the neosovietish pseudofederation that it is today. It was not supposed to be protectionistic and it was not supposed to control and decide over everything and everyone. Just look at the typical case where the EU was actually argueing over the shape of cucumbers.

Right now the EU tries to do everything at once and it does it in an incredibly bad way. A better EU should focus on a number of small things but do it good, such as aiming for shared policies between countries regarding the economy, migration, the military and beyond borders criminality. Things that work better when countries cooperate with each other.

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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted November 16, 2012 08:22 PM

Quote:
That being said, the EU has taken the opposite turn of its original intentions. It was not supposed to turn into the neosovietish pseudofederation that it is today.
You should consider a few history courses on the matter before making such claims. The EU was (and is) is supposed to turn into a federation-like structure from the very start, it's just not that simple to tell the nations which have a large number of differences, not necessarily like each other, have their own interests and not long ago were fighting each other that they should suddenly embrace the Unity.

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xerox
xerox


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted November 16, 2012 09:14 PM

Hmm, you're right. I thought it was simply a union of free trade and migration from the start. But apparently, the long-term goal is a federation. As I don't see much value in a nation state, I would be in favor of a working federation. But that would have to have the support of the vast majority of all europeans and we're faaaar from that. What I don't like is how the EU tries to be a federation today, when there's little support for that. I think if you're going to make an effective and successfull federation, then you need the right conditions for it such as no huge differences in culture and economy, aswell as go all in for it instead of just making an half-assed and bad attempt at it.

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Mytical
Mytical


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
posted November 16, 2012 10:47 PM

If you look at the petitions, a lot of the signatures are the same on ALL the petitions.  That is not counting how many of them have created multiple accounts to sign the petitions.

As for 'the great divider'..somebody forgot the plural..'the great dividers' which are the republicans that absolutely refuse to work with the president.  So yeah, there is a divide..caused by both parties that would rather everybody lose then the other side even be perceived as having a win.
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Elodin
Elodin


Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
posted November 17, 2012 02:26 AM

The Bumaker's policies will continue to cause more unemployment.  Prequake ripples are now starting to come from Uhbumuhcare. Expect some massive quakes.

Clicky

Thankfully I'm soon to be retired. The deals I'm been pursuing have now been closed with everything wrapping up by the end of the month. Unfortunately the dems are making it harder for rags to riches stories to happen in the future. I shudder at the kind of America my grandkids will face before their life has been run.

And to all Obamaites, yes, ****I**** (and my wife) built my business. Big government had nothing to do with it.
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Revelation

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Mytical
Mytical


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
posted November 17, 2012 06:48 AM

Lets forget just for a moment that Obama never said "You didn't build your business" but said that you didn't build the roads and infrastructure that helps people and products get to your business. Despite what Fox may have told you, lets forget the facts here for just one moment.

So..the customers had nothing to do with it?  I mean not only did you build your business, but you bought your own products?  Any workers you have working for you, they had nothing to do with it? Without others to buy whatever you were selling, you wouldn't make any money.  So yes, you did build your company..but there are other factors at play here. *shrugs*
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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted November 17, 2012 09:35 AM
Edited by angelito at 09:37, 17 Nov 2012.

Maybe only republicans are allowed to buy there.... j/k

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Mytical
Mytical


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
posted November 17, 2012 09:55 AM

Quote:
Maybe only republicans are allowed to buy there.... j/k



Lol.  Yes, but that is still other people.  Nobody, and I mean nobody, builds a business by themselves.  Don't get me wrong, they start the business by themselves, some even work all by themselves, and some even work very hard.  Without customers (in some form or another), however, a business isn't in business for long.  *shrugs*.
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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted November 17, 2012 10:44 AM
Edited by Doomforge at 10:47, 17 Nov 2012.

Quote:
****I**** (and my wife) built my business. Big government had nothing to do with it.


I'm not a follower of Obama, but I'll say it:

Anyone not giving credit to the environment which he built his success in is simply completely unaware of how the world works and thinks way too highly of himself.

Now to make things easy to explain:

Come to modern Poorland (not Poorland of 90s which was in fact a land of opportunity), try to earn enough money to start your own business (you can work at 4 jobs at once if you wish - you won't make it anyway) - then, if you win a lotto draw or something since regular work will never allow you to save enough money to start a business - try making your business profitable.

Good luck, mr. successful. Whose fault will it be if you fail and never even start your own business because of lack of starting capital? Certainly not yours, since you tried your best.

And, going by analogy, it's also not your "own" doing that you succeeded in US' golden age, which you seem to ignore, giving 100% tribute to yourself.

No, it wasn't just you, as you like to point it. The whole American economical situation in its golden age (1946-2000) contributed to what you have now.

Sure, you probably worked for it a lot. No one says you were a slacker. But what you're completely missing is that you were able to, which is not your own doing.


Also, as Mytical pointed out, the infrastructure and other important things came pre-built for you. Now, if you were born in Somalia and had no roads, vehicles or customers for that matter, how successful would you be?
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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted November 17, 2012 11:45 AM

Well, that's libertarian logic for you - you're entitled to all the achievements and benefits of the society but you owe nothing to nobody but yourself.

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted November 17, 2012 12:48 PM

I'm not going for philosophy here. I'm merely pointing out that the same Elodin who got a successful business in US would be a poor dude if he was born in Poorland and in a different timeframe.

Why do I think so? because Elodin says he got out of poverty by working. Right here this is not possible.

His whole argumentation is only so much "right" if we take a person exactly in his position. There is absolutely zero objectivity put behind it, and shouldn't our arguments be as objective/"global" as possible?

It's like a biker arguing that a city shouldn't care for traffic jams because it doesn't concern him. Okay, it doesn't - but city officials should still work on traffic jams, because that particular biker's solution isn't working on global basis.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours

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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted November 17, 2012 02:28 PM

Quote:
Well, that's libertarian logic for you - you're entitled to all the achievements and benefits of the society but you owe nothing to nobody but yourself.

Nice strawman you got there.

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Mytical
Mytical


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
posted November 17, 2012 05:03 PM

Honestly though Corribus, you are a very intelligent person, so I will see what you think here.

I want you to name a totally self sufficient business.  One that requires no roads for people who buy the products to travel on.  One that requires no other business..ie the raw materials are owned by that one business owner and they make it into a finished good all by themselves, sell it without any other business having a single thing to do with it.  I will even not worry about the customers.  So forget that no business can exist without other people (at LEAST customers). A business that never has to have anything from the government at all.  I'll even concede the police, fire protection, etc.  I'll forget about that.

The one caveat I will keep about customers is this.  None, not a single one, can work for the government in any form (including police, fire, military, teachers, etc) NOR ever get a dime from the government.  So nobody who has ever gotten unemployment or student loans or any public assistance.  Because that big ol ebil government, we don't want anything to do with them .. yes?

I really need to start a thread about the fallacies of socialism.  That would be a really large thread.

Anyhow, it is pretty straightforward.  No business exists in a bubble.  Other businesses, other people, even that ebil government..have to exist for the business to exist.
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