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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Good Old Temple Tourney is Back!
Thread: Good Old Temple Tourney is Back! This thread is 37 pages long: 1 ... 4 5 6 7 8 ... 10 20 30 37 · «PREV / NEXT»
mike80d
mike80d


Famous Hero
Map Maker
posted February 04, 2011 09:31 PM

I totally support the banning of Rune of Charge.  It's very OP in my opinion, and I can't believe its a lower level rune to begin with haha

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blizzardboy
blizzardboy


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
posted February 05, 2011 12:16 AM

Quote:
Currently I'm on a killing rampage as far as my duel training goes.
I just felt like warning people, that if they want to beat me they need to be prepared.

Seriously I'm so ****ing hyped for this tournament!


Keep talking smack Jar Jar. Old blizzardboy is waiting for you with great vengeance and furious anger.
____________
"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."

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albolabris
albolabris


Known Hero
posted February 05, 2011 06:05 AM
Edited by albolabris at 06:06, 05 Feb 2011.

Had couple games with blizz and 3 of 4  where good, interesting and you can say even ( if not the surprisingly high spell power of my necro hero with cotn it would be fair and not so deadly though i cast it only 2 or 3 times because i didn't wanted to spam one spell ). The 4th one was just crap. I had crappy morale on orcs having empathy but the crucial thing was that damn rune of charge.

Seriously Elvin, get rid of it as soon as possible. You can't hide, you can't block, you can't move because the the paw strike has 100% efficiency You can just wait with those beard freaks, buff them like crazy and after that take a nice and slow walk on the other side of the battlefield to spread death


Also i would recommend and prefer to put a limit on those mass damaging spells. Limit would be that you can't cast them i two consecutive turns. At least one turn interval and also not in the first meaning you can cast on second, fourth, sixth and so on... Otherwise Academy and Fortress with armageddon are unbeatable. Same story for Sylvan having fire resistance... Even inferno with phoenix cape and pit spawns will be a killer.


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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted February 05, 2011 11:29 AM

I wanted to avoid bans this time and hoped that the level reduction would decrease dwarven offensive a bit so I left it in for some more testing. I have been working on a few things the past few days despite not having internet to check your feedback

Meanwhile here's the full list of changes for the units.

HAVEN
Crossbow 2-6dmg from 2-8
Marksmen get force arrow ie arcane archer damage reduction. Basically 40% reduction from afar, 100% reduction from up close
Zealot adv RM.
Inquisitor exp haste due to the nerf of the basic spell.
Seraph 30-70 dmg from 25-75. Also exp dv due to its nerf.

INFERNO
Horned overseer 2-4 dmg, 6 speed, +1 init. I forget if I've boosted their explosion, don't have my notes here.
Cerberus +1 min dmg.
Seducer -1 init. Avoids lucky atb seducing faster units first.
Nightmare +2 min dmg so that it's closer to hell charger.
Pitlord +1 init, +2 speed. For the record pit spawn still has +5 att, +2 def, +20hp, magic proof AND a better special.. I just made it easier for the lords to join the battle.

SYLVAN
Sprites 2-3 dmg like dryads.
Wardancers +1 speed, 6 att/def like wind dancers. Low survivability, high first turn impact.
Arcane archer 40% def reduction from 50% force arrow.
Master hunter gets 4-5 dmg from 5-8. But gains no range and no melee penalty. Basically means it now does similar dmg with the arcane both when shooting and when retaliating but will do better at low def units while arcane does better against high def units.

DUNGEON
Mino guards +3 def.
Brisk raiders +2 max dmg, 50% wheel attack from 25%.

ACADEMY
Elemental vulnerability 35% from 50%.
Battlemage +1 dmg, adv fist of wrath.
Djinn sultan +5 hp, same as vizier.
Storm titan 2% ranged reduction, 15 dmg call storm.

NECROPOLIS
Skeleton archer 2-2 dmg, 2 att, 6 def.
Vamp lord minor dmg boost, +1 init, 70% life drain.
Vamp prince 2 torpor factor from 3, lasts 1 turn from 2.
Banshee +50% wail.

FORTRESS
Mountain guards +1 max dmg since they are aLOT less defensive than shieldguards.
WHitebear fear factor for small units nerfed.
Berserkers +5 hp.
Bash factor reduced.
Lava dragon liquid flame boost, +5 att. Now has 35/35 whereas magma has 30-40.

STRONGHOLD
WItch doctors +1 init, +1 hp.
Maulers +5 hp, +2 hp on first lvl rage from 5.
Sky daughters adv lightning mastery.
Foul wyvern 10 dmg venom from 5, +20 hp like paokai.

May have missed some. Others were mana burst, corrupted spoil, and what else.



Since all seem ready to go and my first exam is on the 10th we can start at 11 or 12.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb

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Azagal
Azagal


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
posted February 05, 2011 12:01 PM
Edited by Azagal at 12:03, 05 Feb 2011.

Love your changes Elvin but there's one thing...
Quote:
Seducer -1 init. Avoids lucky atb seducing faster units first

No offense but it doesn't. If you get lucky you get lucky but from 9 to 8? Anything important and the hero is going to play before them leaving the pitiful rest of the stack almost useless. Don't get me wrong they're not suppose to act before a full stack of X before they've even gotten 1 action (except if there are vindicators) but close to the hero would be nice and 8 that's so slow...Griffins might even get to dive and hit before they even get a turn! And really your concern is "lucky" atb and I mean by definition it's not the rule. So you have 90% of matchup where it'll be ok and 10% where it goes "wrong" for the succubi... and the atb is a mess either way most of the time in one way or another. So I think that's kinda drastic... I might be alone on this though.
____________
"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted February 05, 2011 12:10 PM

Seducers also have a possible mass haste going on, my concern is mostly against orcs though. If I manage to find a seduction formula there will be no need to nerf them..
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb

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Azagal
Azagal


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
posted February 05, 2011 12:13 PM

Well yeah but I dislike the idea of a units usefullness becoming more reliant on a spell. And I mean mass haste isn't usually the spell you want to open with and if you do it's probably in a situation where you need lots of damage fast so seduction won't be THAT crucial.
____________
"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord

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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted February 05, 2011 12:33 PM
Edited by Fauch at 12:37, 05 Feb 2011.

Quote:
Master hunter gets 4-5 dmg from 5-8. But gains no range and no melee penalty.


there's a problem with that one, that means they deal 8-10 damage, so that's a bit more than arcane archers, but they have less defense, less attack, less initiative and no force arrow

what about torpor? (yes it should work on range attack )

and could you do something about chilling bones?

any reason why rakshasa raja gets no boost?

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted February 05, 2011 12:41 PM

Quote:
there's a problem with that one, that means they deal 8-10 damage, so that's a bit more than arcane archers

Lulz

Ah yes forgot to add that master hunters get 11 init and 5 att/6 def to match that arcanes' 6 att/5 def.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb

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albolabris
albolabris


Known Hero
posted February 05, 2011 02:38 PM
Edited by albolabris at 14:42, 05 Feb 2011.

Quote:
I forget if I've boosted their explosion, don't have my notes here.


You haven't because there's no reference in the RPGStats file for that ability Wanted to do it myself but no go here.


Yes, I understand no bans and the whole idea of this map. That's why i don't want to ban mass damaging spells but just nerf the casting so we don't see spam spelling, you get the point

But the rune of charge is just a pain in the ass that ruins every single battle Please no rune of charge...


Quote:
and could you do something about chilling bones?


Also no reference in the RPGStats file so can't do anything about it. In fact, the only abilities left to change are the ones i gave in the HoW Arena map thread. When I was making that last update i double checked every single ability  on the skillwheel and units that can be modified and a lot are shamefully missing.

Doubt if you will find the Seduction formula but you can try because i didn't look for it. As for their initiative I'm with Azzie. It was ok as it was. Now you can seduce crap units or you will seduce nobody at all.


Think you went to far with vampires. Torpor factor is enough ( playing with it almost half a year and it's really ok ), 1 turn is nothing and not enough to use his other ability ( max dmg strike on torpored units ) because you have to jump from unit to unit. 70% life drain is also too much in my opinion. Cast Vampirism and it's gg

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blizzardboy
blizzardboy


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
posted February 05, 2011 03:10 PM
Edited by blizzardboy at 19:25, 05 Feb 2011.

Is rune of charge actually staying in? You've always banned it in the past so what made you change your mind?

Albo and I were dueling last night and rune of charge was over-dominating as usual, and I didn't even have a very good setup. It was against stronghold and I had rune of magic immunity and rune of magic control
____________
"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."

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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted February 05, 2011 06:03 PM
Edited by Fauch at 18:05, 05 Feb 2011.

Quote:
Quote:
I forget if I've boosted their explosion, don't have my notes here.


You haven't because there's no reference in the RPGStats file for that ability Wanted to do it myself but no go here.


what about GameMechanics/Spell/Creature_abilities/inferno/Explosion.xdb?


a bit of inspiration :
cyclop retaliate to range attacks if they are near goblins (though, they lose their retaliation doing so) :
here

blood fury can turn invisible (just to make them a bit different from blood sisters):
here

more seriously, runes :
here

level 1 :
Etherealness 1 wood
Berserker 1 ore

Level 2 :
Exorcism 1 sulfur
Stunning 1 mercury
Captation 1 gem

Level 3 :
Elemental immunity 1 mercury 1 ore
Dragonform (gives 100% magic proof) 1 sulfur 1 wood

Level 4 :
Resurrection 1 ore 1 wood 1 gem

Level 5 :
Battle rage 1 crystal 1 sulfur
Charge 1 mercury 1 gem

if it isn't balanced, at least, you know how to mod it.
runes can't cost mana it seems.
note that charge costs resources needed for resurrection

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albolabris
albolabris


Known Hero
posted February 05, 2011 07:03 PM

In the past i had an idea to mode the rune of charge so that it gives not double range but +50% rounded down ( 49 so the AI doesn't get confused when having 2.5 and deciding whether it's 7 or 8).

This would lead to 7 speed for dragons and brawlers so you would still need tactics. But we didn't find the reference/formula in the files to do so.

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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted February 05, 2011 07:23 PM

I haven't found it either.

of course, putting it at level 5 doesn't change much in that contest, but getting battle rage instead is still much better than berserker. also, I think that way you can't have both battle rage and charge, so that's at least a relief if your opponent use rune of charge.

also, I'm not completely sure if making resurrection garranted is a good idea, but since consume artifacts isn't banned for academy, I guess it is ok.

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mike80d
mike80d


Famous Hero
Map Maker
posted February 05, 2011 09:40 PM

Elvin,

A couple quick thoughts on the map:

1)  Isn't it unfair that player 2 gets to see which creatures/upgrades that player 1 has selected?  What is the point of seeing eachother's starting area anyway?  

   Possible solution:  don't let us see their starting castle, but opencirclefog the starting underground castle so that we can still see which faction our opponent is.  Then on Day 2 create a trigger that warps the 2 armies to the middle

2)  I was able to get to level 20 with Enlightenment's "Dark Revelation" (was a Necromancer).  I didn't try to remove that with the memory mentor, but it might be an exploit.


Thoughts?

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albolabris
albolabris


Known Hero
posted February 05, 2011 09:46 PM

No exploit. You pick DR and you are level up. It always worked this way on duel map.

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Azagal
Azagal


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
posted February 05, 2011 11:17 PM

That is why the level cap is 20 to allow factions that can get DR to level up. If it wasn't inteded the cap would be at 19.
____________
"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord

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Jabanoss
Jabanoss


Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
posted February 06, 2011 12:04 PM

Elvin I have found a minor imbalance with your map.
Only the Necropolis in the top left corner gets the Elemental Waistband. The Necropolis in the bottom left corner don't have it at all.
____________
"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe

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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted February 07, 2011 01:19 AM

it seems that you know how to write scripts Elvin, I think you could use them to boost chilling bones and some other perks.

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Towerlord
Towerlord


Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
posted February 07, 2011 01:00 PM

Quote:
I wanted to avoid bans this time and hoped that the level reduction would decrease dwarven offensive a bit so I left it in for some more testing. I have been working on a few things the past few days despite not having internet to check your feedback

Meanwhile here's the full list of changes for the units.

HAVEN
Crossbow 2-6dmg from 2-8 nerfing here & empowering marksmen might swap the preference to the other side, not make them balanced choices.
Marksmen get force arrow ie arcane archer damage reduction. Basically 40% reduction from afar, 100% reduction from up close Still 2-8 dmg ?
Zealot adv RM.
Inquisitor exp haste due to the nerf of the basic spell.
Seraph 30-70 dmg from 25-75. Also exp dv due to its nerf.

INFERNO
Horned overseer 2-4 dmg, 6 speed, +1 init. I forget if I've boosted their explosion, don't have my notes here.
Cerberus +1 min dmg.
Seducer -1 init. Avoids lucky atb seducing faster units first. great unit, but only decisive vs. orcs, with moderate power vs. dwarves and humans, and much lower impact against all others... the change doesn't make it less imba vs. orcs.
Nightmare +2 min dmg so that it's closer to hell charger.
Pitlord +1 init, +2 speed. For the record pit spawn still has +5 att, +2 def, +20hp, magic proof AND a better special.. I just made it easier for the lords to join the battle. very interesting, though I wouldn't say Pit Spawn special is better, but all the other aditions used to make them the choice.

SYLVAN
Sprites 2-3 dmg like dryads.
Wardancers +1 speed, 6 att/def like wind dancers. Low survivability, high first turn impact.nice, but still wind dancers are imba, only +1 defense/ tile would be better. and perhaps 6 att/3 defense for wardancers
Arcane archer 40% def reduction from 50% force arrow.
Master hunter gets 4-5 dmg from 5-8. But gains no range and no melee penalty. Basically means it now does similar dmg with the arcane both when shooting and when retaliating but will do better at low def units while arcane does better against high def units.
same here... nerf + empower might lead to swap, plus identity is lost. perhaps better increase the probability factor of MH mini-stun and power?

DUNGEON
Mino guards +3 def.
Brisk raiders +2 max dmg, 50% wheel attack from 25%.

ACADEMY
Elemental vulnerability 35% from 50%.not an imba ability, why? and the other gargoyles are very often the choice.
Battlemage +1 dmg, adv fist of wrath.
Djinn sultan +5 hp, same as vizier.
Storm titan 2% ranged reduction, 15 dmg call storm.

NECROPOLIS
Skeleton archer 2-2 dmg, 2 att, 6 def.
Vamp lord minor dmg boost, +1 init, 70% life drain.
Vamp prince 2 torpor factor from 3, lasts 1 turn from 2.
Banshee +50% wail.

FORTRESS
Mountain guards +1 max dmg since they are aLOT less defensive than shieldguards.
WHitebear fear factor for small units nerfed.
Berserkers +5 hp.
Bash factor reduced.
Lava dragon liquid flame boost, +5 att. Now has 35/35 whereas magma has 30-40. BAD - 1 init would be wiser choice. 35 attack makes them much better than magmas 99% of the times, since they already posses 10% higher damage!

STRONGHOLD
WItch doctors +1 init, +1 hp.
Maulers +5 hp, +2 hp on first lvl rage from 5.
Sky daughters adv lightning mastery.
Foul wyvern 10 dmg venom from 5, +20 hp like paokai.almost 1 titan/turn poison , might be imba...

May have missed some. Others were mana burst, corrupted spoil, and what else.



Since all seem ready to go and my first exam is on the 10th we can start at 11 or 12.


... and besides the comments on the creatures, I am tempted to test the changes myself in the tournament or in a friendly game, but I'll have to decide on that laterz .

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