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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted April 30, 2011 07:10 PM |
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Cool down guys 
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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rayhunter
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 30, 2011 07:23 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
could you explain me what arguments are not bullsnow when it comes to peronal SUBJECTIVE opinion. when it jsut comes to whether you like something or not.
explain please.
Go re-read Davy and Bruk's replies to your post, they're pretty methodical.
still YOU havent answer why my arguments are bullsnow. is it required to give arguments to explain opinion concerning whether you like something. when u like a flower for instance , do you say WHY ? do you know the meaning of the word subjective?
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smithey
Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted April 30, 2011 07:24 PM |
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If only somebody would show some initiative and centralize the main complaints in post 1 of page 1, the thread would be pretty informative.
Hey!!!! Don't look at me, I showed initiative by suggesting this 
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flyingpenut
Hired Hero
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posted April 30, 2011 07:30 PM |
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It is more simplistic in a many ways.
1. Less resources means less choices. If you have to only go for crystal you dont have to choose which mines to attack first. You dont have to make the decision of whether to attack a sulfur mine and get to build your lich dwelling or attack a mercury mine and build your vampire dwelling. Resource gathering is THE base of the game. Therefore having less options there snowballs effects down through the whole game.
2. Less factions again means less options. Each faction has there own playing style. With less factions the fact is there are less playing styles.
Complexity means having to chose between more options. Obviously in Heroes VI there are less options. I am of the mindset that each new game or new expansion in a series should add more options, i.e. factions, spell, creatures, even maybe adding new abilities or game play features like incorporating other RPG aspects of creating your own potions from reagents or crafting artifacts from lesser material.
I do like the new morality base system but adding one new feature and taking away others does not create much interest for me.
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rayhunter
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 30, 2011 07:40 PM |
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I forgot my biggest complain and maybe the most symbolic.
Its no longer Heroes of Might and Magic....its Might & Magic Heroes, so actually,yes. Why I am complaining for a game that no longer exists.This is totally new game and should have totally new features.
Sorry if I have insulted someone, lets stop with the nonsense quarrel.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted April 30, 2011 07:51 PM |
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Quote:
It is more simplistic in a many ways.
1. Less resources means less choices. If you have to only go for crystal you dont have to choose which mines to attack first. You dont have to make the decision of whether to attack a sulfur mine and get to build your lich dwelling or attack a mercury mine and build your vampire dwelling. Resource gathering is THE base of the game. Therefore having less options there snowballs effects down through the whole game.
2. Less factions again means less options. Each faction has there own playing style. With less factions the fact is there are less playing styles.
Complexity means having to chose between more options. Obviously in Heroes VI there are less options. I am of the mindset that each new game or new expansion in a series should add more options, i.e. factions, spell, creatures, even maybe adding new abilities or game play features like incorporating other RPG aspects of creating your own potions from reagents or crafting artifacts from lesser material.
I do like the new morality base system but adding one new feature and taking away others does not create much interest for me.
1. I believe it is clear that the vast majority was against this change, I am not thrilled either but feel it is not as bad as most think. Towns take long to build and crystal will always be needed, judging from the piles and daily income you can still make an important choice between what you want, ie x elite dwelling than y or z, a powerful unique building, an upgrade or skip some of the aforementioned and go for the champion dwelling. Also easier to balance on all kinds of maps and avoid certain factions being overpowered in small/poor maps etc. Sure having 4 resources could affect your strategy more but it could also limit it if a certain mines were hard to capture. Either way I believe that most complaints are aimed at the change of tradition rather than gameplay.
2. Not necessarily. Some H5 factions had few viable builds despite the freedom and H3 lacked the depth of either H5 or H6. Sure, now we have fewer factions which sucks but at the same time more variables to deal with.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted April 30, 2011 07:55 PM |
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Edited by MrDragon at 20:02, 30 Apr 2011.
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Edit2: Lot of pointless blabber removed.
Anyway I disagree that resource reduction reduces strategic options, it's flip side is that it open up new strategies surrounding the singular rare resource, having access to more of it then your opponent or aggressively denying him it suddenly becomes a valid strategy.
There are plenty of games that make resources matter a lot more despite having only 2 or 3 as opposed to 4.
BUT, that's all,I'm not gonne waste my time or yours any further.
I just want to finish off with saying that its not just the new morality system that adds more options, the new tier system, hero skill system and town conversion system add a lot of new options too.
But it's fine to dislike/hate HoMMVI for now, just don't lay down a final judgement until we have more accurate information like from the Beta, Demo and/or some reviews.
Edit: yes let's stop this useless quarrel, I apologize for losing my temper, had some food, feeling better now. 
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rayhunter
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 30, 2011 08:47 PM |
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sorry again. i was more guilty. 
I just wanted to express my frustration that my favorite game of all time is becoming neutral to me with every change they made.
i agree that the "anime stuff" was a stupid point made by me, but my idea was that the angel is becoming too feminine. dont you think that the one in H3 was very cool
that about the WC3 and KB was also stupid. ghoul is fine and indeed all necropolis is very good with one single exception - wtf is lamasu it looks very clumsy. anyway, also about the graphics -they are good but i have a feeling that they must concentrate more on complicating the gameplay. although i hope that they have compensated the removal of features.
and one guy said that the presence of more female creature is more appealing to man. but you know, we men try to exclude women for our hobbies, take football, cars, games etc  and whatsmore they somehow dont reprsent might
maybe its nostalgy about the old times, but still after heroes 4 was a disaster(acording to many) then came H5 which brought back a little of the old athmosphere and i was optimistic that ubi has learned a lesson from their mistakes. but now i see vast changes as was in H4 and dont know what to think.....I hope it is good and don't have the consequences of the fourth sequel.
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flyingpenut
Hired Hero
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posted April 30, 2011 09:43 PM |
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1. I believe it is clear that the vast majority was against this change, I am not thrilled either but feel it is not as bad as most think. Towns take long to build and crystal will always be needed, judging from the piles and daily income you can still make an important choice between what you want, ie x elite dwelling than y or z, a powerful unique building, an upgrade or skip some of the aforementioned and go for the champion dwelling. Also easier to balance on all kinds of maps and avoid certain factions being overpowered in small/poor maps etc. Sure having 4 resources could affect your strategy more but it could also limit it if a certain mines were hard to capture. Either way I believe that most complaints are aimed at the change of tradition rather than gameplay.
2. Not necessarily. Some H5 factions had few viable builds despite the freedom and H3 lacked the depth of either H5 or H6. Sure, now we have fewer factions which sucks but at the same time more variables to deal with.
Ok i have been convinced to play the demo. What can i lose it is free right and who knows it might be fun.
However by disputing my earlier claims you are building an argument based around your view and not actually facts. The fact is having less resource will lead to less options and therefore less strategy. Yes there may be new strategies involving only crystal but they are far outweighed by the loss of other strategies. Same with less factions. I believe it was stated earlier in this post that the point is not that they were flawed options, because yes resources were useless late game, and yes some factions were over/underpowered, but instead of just getting rid of an integral part of the game instead work out a solution that make better use of them.
I understand in these times the gaming industry is in a financial crisis and is restricted to much tighter budgets but these days many, many fans would take upon work load themselves. Look at the moding community for every new game these days. Its free labor.
Oh and lets not beat around the bush. The reason for less factions is because Ubi can come out with expansions that offer more and therefore make more money. Now this is completely fine with me but instead of lying and saying the reason is for our good just come out and say we will offer 3 new factions in our expansion coming out in 6 months. OK cool i am total fine with that. It gives me something to looks forward to in 6 months. At least Star Craft was honest with us about this.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted April 30, 2011 10:42 PM |
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I have not heard about a demo though I wouldn't be surprised if they released one close to the game's release. The beta will be for those who preordered the game unfortunately 
And yes obviously the ideal solution would be to keep the 4 resources and work on making them balanced just as they could with the initiative system.
Quote:
I understand in these times the gaming industry is in a financial crisis and is restricted to much tighter budgets but these days many, many fans would take upon work load themselves. Look at the moding community for every new game these days. Its free labor.
We are even begging to be used. Seriously.
I believe less factions were more about budget but one does not exclude the other. Sometimes I really wish H6 would be developed in a different time..
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Davy
Known Hero
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posted April 30, 2011 11:55 PM |
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@rayhunter:
-about your opinion:
It is ok that you share your opinion,but so do we share our opinions of your opinion
-anime:Well when I think of an angel I think of a more graceful being and because of that the angel looks in my opinion better as the one in h3,who looked too manly.Ok they didn't need to make them female,but it doesn't really make such a big difference,since the only female trait of the angel in h6 is the armor,but aside from that the angel doesn't look very feminine.
-Lamassu:
The lamassu looks really a little bit out of place.They probably wanted to give the necropolis some egypt feeling,since undead are a big part of egypt mythology.However I think,that they might look very impressive in combat,since one of their abilitys involves spitting insects.
-Complication of the game:
I think they shouldn't complicate the game,because complication rarely works.For example in H5 you had a quite complicated skilltree and combined with the fact that it was very hard to gain the ultimate ability it limited your decisions which wasn't really good in my opinion(not to mention that it was really frustrating if you couldn't get the desired ability just because you were unlucky).
And they even complicated the game in some points,like the new hero system,were we have for each faction a might and a magic hero and both can then even become either a tear or a blood hero,or the new terriotory system means that your enemy have to keep an eye on the builings that mark your territory,because otherwise you will loose many mines.Last but not least the town conversion which destroys all faction unique buildings means,that if your enemy is able to get your town on a big map he could nearly destroy it through this method and of course you yourself are left asking yourself if you want to convert the town or not.
-females:
Well I don't think that for example the dark elves in SM-clothing from H5 were for girls xD.They were even asked about the females and they just said that the units looked better that way.
@flyingpeanut:
Well yes we have less factions which is really not good,but therefore the factions themself have now more replay value,since there are now 4 heroes per town(or even 6 if you count the neutrals),giving us 20 hero classes(or 30 with neutrals),more than any other heroes game had and every hero learns different abilities.
Not to mention that you always have to choose 2 out of 4 possible buildings per faction,which means that you can try different combinations.
And the fact that there are only 3 tiers will most likely leave you with the choice of which creature dwelling to build first,which again gives you different possibilities and tactics.
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yann
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 01, 2011 01:48 AM |
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1. Make the game play as fast as possible and not slow like Heroes 5
2. Don't screw around with staple factions...oops
3. Give us content content content. Graphics? who cares.
4. Better storylines
It's hopeless. The popularity of the heroes series derives from everyone's love of Heroes 2 and 3 (for the most part). The fact that developers can't just brand and build on what made the series successful is beyond me. Keep the story, heroes, majority of core factions, and just add add add.
It also seems to me that Heroes is losing its identity. Developers are trying to make it like every other game: i.e. Warcraft. They're trying to change it into more of an RPG bc TBS is a dying breed.
Way to ruin one of the most traditional titles in the history of pc gaming.
End rant.
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yann
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 01, 2011 11:53 AM |
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Oh and I so didn't read most of this thread before posting sorry about the redundancy.
Anyways, we all understand the financial issues, the changes in the market, the turmoil of changing developers every two games,etc. but there are just some changes that, imo, needn't be changed even in light of these issues.
I honestly didn't have a huge problem with Heroes V other than these three things:
1. Sluggishness
2. Extreme cutting of content (# of factions, creatures, buildings, spells) despite the increase in depth in some areas. Although, yes, economically there must be balance with content and depth, you can have so much more of both.
3. General lack of caring with regards to depth of storyline, history and amount of bugs/mishaps.
So maybe I did have a problem.
If you're going to change the storyline, you need to make sure people can believe in the new one. This is how you kill games. If you stop caring, so will your market (except for the few poor diehard souls that will buy all HOMM titles regardless).
Heroes V was a very poor start. Heroes VI is now fighting an uphill battle. The prospects, from what I can see, are not very promising.
When you take out two-three staple factions from the series, you tend to deviate from the story and the market (academy and sylvan to name the obvious). When you deviate to more RPG style game-play, you fail to remember the many great RPGs that Heroes can't hope to compete against. Heroes' value lies in its existence as a TBS. Strategy, tactics, macro-view, etc. This is what makes Heroes special - not your BS story that you pulled out of your rear-end for a more RPG feel. Bosses? Really!?
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watcher83
Supreme Hero
Child of Malassa
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posted May 01, 2011 11:59 AM |
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Ways to ruin this game:
1. make warlock an inferno hero (check)
2. bring Isabel back to the game (?)
3. retard lines in campaign
4. greed (check) - why expand the game when u can make only 5 factions and then squeeze, squeeze with 2-3 expansions until u may or may not reach eight factions which means some will be left out but who cares, kids will play, money will come.
5.never be consistant on lore (check)
6. postpone, postpone, postpone (check) - only blizzard gets it right here
7. make a fantasy game with no elves (check)
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Davy
Known Hero
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posted May 01, 2011 02:28 PM |
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@Yann:They should keep the story of heroes 2 and 3?To be honest,I am a big fan of those games,but I never cared for the story,probably because of how it was told.So I think it is ok to make new stories.
I also don't know why it becomes more like warcraft,I mean just because you have now more control over the growth of your hero and it isn't luck based anymore.
@watcher:
why is it such a big deal,that the warlock is an inferno hero?
I mean as long as we sometimes get the dungeon it is no problem for me,whats the name of the hero,especially since there are now 6 heros per faction,which would mean,that the warlock wouldn't stand out anyway.
Also we don't even know if warlock is the real name,it may be just a place holder at this moment.
Isabel will probably not be in this game,since it should take place years before isabel is even born
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Warlord
Famous Hero
Lord of Image Spam
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posted May 01, 2011 02:39 PM |
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Quote:
make a fantasy game with no elves
Maybe they were trying to be original?
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted May 01, 2011 04:06 PM |
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Edited by Avirosb at 16:08, 01 May 2011.
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My favorite Warlock in any game will always be the one in Champions of Zulula: Elite Edition, a sort of weak "fighting game" were you pick a creature (some original, some based on mythology) and fight to the death, gladiator-style. You could even be an ostrich!
They bear a closer resemblance to battle-mages rather than male witches.
...What I'm actually trying to say is that I don't really mind the Warlock being an Inferno hero because it at least makes (somewhat) sense and I can't stand DED (Dark Elf Dungeon).
I do like some dark elves (dunmer and druchii) but not Ashan dark elves.
But enough about that. What's the deal with the two inferno balrogs and the Sarumen and women they're trying to pass of as Inferno might heroes?
It's like they got tired of ripping off Games Workshop and decided to borrow ideas from Weta Workshop instead
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted May 01, 2011 07:02 PM |
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Edited by MrDragon at 19:48, 01 May 2011.
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Just my opinions on these arguments.
Quote:
Ways to ruin this game:
1. make warlock an inferno hero (check)
It's just a name, are you saying Dungeon's Warlocks were only awesome because they were named Warlock?
Dungeon Warlocks will stay just as awesome if they are called any other name for an arcanist.
Traditionally the name Warlock is both in legend and in popular media associated with demons anyway.
Quote:
2. bring Isabel back to the game (?)
3. retard lines in campaign
Agreed on both counts.
Quote:
4. greed (check) - why expand the game when u can make only 5 factions and then squeeze, squeeze with 2-3 expansions until u may or may not reach eight factions which means some will be left out but who cares, kids will play, money will come.
I'd say it's quality over quantity, they want to make 5 really good, well balanced and interesting factions instead of 8 bad ones.
Quote:
5.never be consistant on lore (check)
Don't think people are complaining, the Ashan lore could do with some spring cleaning.
Quote:
6. postpone, postpone, postpone (check) - only blizzard gets it right here
Has it's benefits in the long term, but it is annoying yeah.
Quote:
7. make a fantasy game with no elves (check)
Sadly (for me) there still are elves in the game, but they aren't playable for the initial release.
To be honest it would be a breath of fresh air if they avoided elves/dwarves/orcs etc for a change, but that's not heroes.
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watcher83
Supreme Hero
Child of Malassa
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posted May 01, 2011 08:28 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
make a fantasy game with no elves
Maybe they were trying to be original?
Ubi made the most non-original heroes games so lol
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 01, 2011 10:59 PM |
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I find it ironic that your avatar is that of a Dark elf then.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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This thread is pages long: 
