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Orzie
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted February 05, 2014 11:14 AM |
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Perhaps I'm a bit misoriented, but what happened to the classical and logical Cyborg?
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Macron1
Supreme Hero
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posted February 05, 2014 11:46 AM |
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Edited by Macron1 at 11:48, 05 Feb 2014.
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Hobbit said:
no Wisdom
If take Wisdom from Forge, than it must be taken from Castle knights, Stronghold barbarians, Overlords and Beast masters, and Rangers, at least.
Or Forge will be too weak in terms of own heroes in long distance run.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted February 05, 2014 12:31 PM |
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No wisdom...he would still have some of the magic schools available?
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 05, 2014 01:19 PM |
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what about "Raider"? it seems more fitting to me. i feel it should be something along the lines of what they represent. they are militant, destroy their environment... "Raider" or something like that. "Renegade" can be used for underdogs, which is something that Forge definitely isn't. when you think of a "Raider", though, there's no mistaking what kind of person that is. just bad news.
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revolut1oN
Famous Hero
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posted February 05, 2014 02:07 PM |
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Macron1 said:
Hobbit said:
no Wisdom
If take Wisdom from Forge, than it must be taken from Castle knights, Stronghold barbarians, Overlords and Beast masters, and Rangers, at least.
Or Forge will be too weak in terms of own heroes in long distance run.
Wisdom is useless. Maybe sometimes in campaigns it's OK to have Town Portal, but that's it.
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Hobbit
Supreme Hero
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posted February 05, 2014 02:39 PM |
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Orzie said:
Perhaps I'm a bit misoriented, but what happened to the classical and logical Cyborg?
At first I wanted to say that Cyborg would be more of a state rather than class, but it just ocurred to me that we already have Demoniacs...
Still, I'm not sure if this word really fits fantasy game - in even early fantasy games common inhabitants didn't use any hi-tech terminology. Even blasters were named "sunlight rays" or something like that.
Macron1 said:
If take Wisdom from Forge, than it must be taken from Castle knights, Stronghold barbarians, Overlords and Beast masters, and Rangers, at least.
Forge doesn't have to be powerful in terms of everything. And, as revolut1on said, it's not really that big deal.
Storm-Giant said:
No wisdom...he would still have some of the magic schools available?
He will have all other magic schools available. Two only skills which would be banned are Wisdom and Necromancy.
fred79 said:
what about "Raider"? it seems more fitting to me. i feel it should be something along the lines of what they represent. they are militant, destroy their environment... "Raider" or something like that. "Renegade" can be used for underdogs, which is something that Forge definitely isn't. when you think of a "Raider", though, there's no mistaking what kind of person that is. just bad news.
That actually sounds pretty nice... We'll think about that, but ATM it's the best option for me.
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Horn of the
Abyss on AcidCave
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Macron1
Supreme Hero
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posted February 05, 2014 02:47 PM |
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Hobbit said:
Two only skills which would be banned are Wisdom and Necromancy.
Why necromancy?
Forge is ruled by warlocks, they have to have necromancy...
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted February 05, 2014 02:59 PM |
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Hobbit said:
Storm-Giant said:
No wisdom...he would still have some of the magic schools available?
He will have all other magic schools available. Two only skills which would be banned are Wisdom and Necromancy.
Cool then. It will be something worth trying.
Macron1 said:
Hobbit said:
Two only skills which would be banned are Wisdom and Necromancy.
Why necromancy?
Forge is ruled by warlocks, they have to have necromancy...
Dungeon is ruled by Warlocks, they don't have necromancy...macron pls
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted February 05, 2014 03:05 PM |
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revolut1oN said:
Wisdom is useless. Maybe sometimes in campaigns it's OK to have Town Portal, but that's it.
Not that useless if you're a Wizard... =)
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Hobbit
Supreme Hero
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posted February 05, 2014 03:08 PM |
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Edited by Hobbit at 15:10, 05 Feb 2014.
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@Macron1:
1. Warlocks in H3 can't learn Necromancy by normal leveling up.
2. Forge is actually ruled mostly (though not exclusively) by Deyjans.
3. These are MIGHT heroes - mostly Deyjan lords or gang leaders which often have no interest in necromancy.
4. Due to morale penalty Necromancy would be useless in most cases anyway.
Don't worry though, magic heroes will have small chances to learn Necromancy since there are at least two (if not three) units with no morale. But that's all, and it's more of a bonus feature and a little step towards encouraging to mix armies, which isn't that useful in Heroes 3 as it was in Heroes 1-2, rather than any kind of necessity etc.
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Horn of the
Abyss on AcidCave
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 05, 2014 03:09 PM |
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Wisdom is only useless if you have garbage spells in the Mage Guilds you have access to. that stands for any Faction.
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Orzie
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted February 05, 2014 03:16 PM |
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fred79 said:
Wisdom is only useless if you have garbage spells in the Mage Guilds you have access to. that stands for any Faction.
+
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revolut1oN
Famous Hero
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posted February 05, 2014 03:45 PM |
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Orzie said:
fred79 said:
Wisdom is only useless if you have garbage spells in the Mage Guilds you have access to. that stands for any Faction.
+
Nobody serious takes Wisdom in multiplayer in competitive games. Best spells are level 1-2. Wisdom = wasting slot. I stated that its not true in CAMPAIGN but in normal games yes, its useless. Why would u need Wisdom if all you need is Earth/Air for Slow/Haste, Cure/Dispel and Blind?
Edit: Also obviously in custom maps its perfect when u need to fight 9999 Azure Dragons you will need Wisdom - Berserk or Force Field, but im talking about normal situations here. Usually games last 3-5 weeks, and even if longer its always better to mass slow enemy than to cast ridiculous Implosion or other crap.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 05, 2014 03:50 PM |
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revolut1oN said:
Nobody serious takes Wisdom in multiplayer in competitive games. Best spells are level 1-2. Wisdom = wasting slot. I stated that its not true in CAMPAIGN but in normal games yes, its useless. Why would u need Wisdom if all you need is Earth/Air for Slow/Haste, Cure/Dispel and Blind?
if everyone jumped off a bridge, would you do that as well? if everyone were ambush campers in CoD, would you be one too?
the advantages of having Wisdom is access to strong spells like implosion, chain lightning, etc., for attack. the benefit of strong adventure map spells is unparallel, as well. unless, of course, they are banned in multiplayer. otherwise, they are worth it.
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frostymuaddib
Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
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posted February 05, 2014 03:53 PM |
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Those arguments concerning multiplayer are valid, but there are people (me included) who prefer single player scenarios and campaigns, and there wisdom is necessary. Also, it is a little strange that commanders who are located in Deyja cannot learn to be better spellcasters. Deyja is a kingdom based on magic (if I'm not mistaken, they were once wizards of Bracada).
On the other hand, it would be interesting to see a class that would be unable to learn wisdom at all. 
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Macron1
Supreme Hero
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posted February 05, 2014 05:34 PM |
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Edited by Macron1 at 17:37, 05 Feb 2014.
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Storm-Giant said:
Dungeon is ruled by Warlocks, they don't have necromancy...macron pls
Lol, necromancy is allowed for Warlocks. You are newbie?
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frostymuaddib
Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
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posted February 05, 2014 05:41 PM |
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Quote:
Lol, necromancy is allowed for Warlocks.
In Heroes 3? I don't recall that at all.I think Witches had a chance to learn it, but that was removed later... Correct me if I'm mistaken.
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Macron1
Supreme Hero
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posted February 05, 2014 05:56 PM |
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frostymuaddib said:
Quote:
Lol, necromancy is allowed for Warlocks.
In Heroes 3? I don't recall that at all.I think Witches had a chance to learn it, but that was removed later... Correct me if I'm mistaken.
It seems Hobbit was right. I looked in HCTRAITS, there is 0 for all except necromants.
Warlocks have only right to buy Necromancy in Univercity (don't remember about Overlords).
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Hobbit
Supreme Hero
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posted February 05, 2014 06:05 PM |
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Quote:
Those arguments concerning multiplayer are valid, but there are people (me included) who prefer single player scenarios and campaigns, and there wisdom is necessary. Also, it is a little strange that commanders who are located in Deyja cannot learn to be better spellcasters.
Forge already has only three levels of Mage Guild. Kastore just doesn't really care about using powerful magic anymore, he and his minions believe in power of ancient weaponry and artifacts. For them magic should be used mostly as an addition to technology.
____________
Horn of the
Abyss on AcidCave
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 05, 2014 06:10 PM |
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Hobbit said:
Forge already has only three levels of Mage Guild. Kastore just doesn't really care about using powerful magic anymore, he and his minions believe in power of ancient weaponry and artifacts. For them magic should be used mostly as an addition to technology.
true. the technology they have acquired is a more valid thing to focus on than magic. good point.
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