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| Thread: 1.3 Multiplayer impressions, suggestions |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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conqr
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 19, 2011 11:13 AM |
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Meditation does work, at least it works for me ;P It gives both mana and power bonuses.
It gives the spellpower, but that extra sp has no effect (for me).
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Inferno can act faster than Necropolis and as for the damage being negligible I have to remind you that this is throughout the entire game duration.
Yes, but the turn you cast it, you don't make your breeder full range, or lilims faster. A chain lightning + daze will do more harm from the necro side.
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as u have calculated the range-dam of stronghold with a might hero, have u taken the harphies in there?
No, becouse of the packed formation it cant damage shooters.
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WHY are u all speaking of killing the lamacuns(?) fast? do u think, they are such dangerous?
Its just my idea to break the necro wall, and then get a crature there to block both shooters (preferably first turn). So its not the lamasu that is dangerous. (But check out the formation, it will be clear why the lamasu has to be taken down.)
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are u all sure, there is no opinion for strong (phanters?)with tactics II and maybe boots with +1 combat movement and maybe masshaste or mass inner fire ore rush or other skills/ spells to block opponent shooters?
I wrote two comments about it yesterday, and the stronghold might hero with inner fire has a chance to take down lamasus and then block the shooters. But only if the necro is in the right corner. Also the might stronghold hero has a low magic defense, while ghosts are magic attack as well.
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Jabanoss
Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
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posted August 19, 2011 02:02 PM |
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It would be better with 20 champions instead of 30. Or add more cores and elites. As of now the dmg from core and elite won't do much to champions. If you look at their dmg, 30 champions has A LOT more dmg than ~60 elites or ~150 cores. That's why many of them are "useless" =/
Yes this. ^
In those duels I've played. (only vs AI yet) I most of the time just save the champions for the end. Though that depends of what champion ofc.
30 cyclops take ages to cut through. :S
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"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted August 19, 2011 02:36 PM |
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In a real game it is quite unlikely to have 30 Fate Weavers by the time when you have 120 Ghouls to start with but this still does not make Necropolis balanced at all. Mass Drain Life + Necromancy + Specters + eventually Mass Regeneration renders them de facto immortal. At the same time you can't use Drain Life or Puppet Master against them which is nothing short of unfair. I'm yet to see how thus turtle which they are forming around the Liches and the Fate Weavers can be broken with this constant resurrection. One tried with Poison Cloud but it didn't do much, no matter that the battle was relatively long. Frenzy might help here and there but not alone and it still seems insufficient.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 19, 2011 02:52 PM |
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Undead can neither be poisoned nor frenizied.
But yeah, I am currently playing with the Necro turtle strategy right now on Duel and it is completly B. R. O. K. E. N.
I won a duel against Sanctuary and barely lost any creatures at all.
The healing is insane and you can decimate the opponents champion very quickly. I use Petrification to waste its turn and then I nuke it. The enemy champion gets irrelevant fast.
I also like to Puppet their most powerful stack and kill the shooters. I use Puppet to waste the Cyclops special ability.
As someone said earlier, Vampires can also be teleported to block shooters.
My build aims at making Necro a lot more faster so I usually get to make the first strike every turn.
I am using a Necro Magic Blood Hero.
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted August 19, 2011 03:07 PM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 15:08, 19 Aug 2011.
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Both Poison Cloud and Frenzy (whatever its new name is) work on Necropolis troops but don't help. The last duel I had was against Inferno, the other guy cast Poison Cloud atop my turtle and over the course of the battle it dealt no less than 2000-3000 aggregate damage but still couldn't handle Necromancy + Curse of the Netherworld (not that impressive but it is yet another mass resurrection spell) + Mass Drain Life. If the Fate Weavers are free to shoot against the enemy, they decimate the opposing Champions within 3-4 turns while the Liches deal with all enemy archers on their own. The rest of the battle is just for the record.
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conqr
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 19, 2011 03:44 PM |
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Edited by conqr at 15:47, 19 Aug 2011.
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Stronghold might-blood hero with mass inner fire can break the lamasu and block both shooters first turn (if he guesses right wich corner the necro is in), but the low magic defense of the stronghold cratures and the might hero will more than likely hit back.. fate wavers can almost one shot everything, and life-drain, mass-lifedrain, healing of the ghost will be relly good when the magic defense of the opponents hero is so low. Btw, i made a formation that might be able to grant the fate waver at least a few shots.. and it really does not need any more.
In addition fate waver + teleport + lifedrain (or its special ability) can be really effective. 30 fate waver + storm arrows can do more than 4k dmg on cyclops (low magic def of might hero fires back..), and life drain is at about 83-85% in this case.
So the stronghold might hero most likely will be able to at least kill the liches, but the necro can:
-summon earth elemental to block cyclops (and turn to stone one of own creatures if its severely damaged but holds a key position)
-one shot centaurs with fate waver
-heal with ghosts (really strong against might hero)
(or cast mass life drain and be agressive, and teleport wavers if they are blocked and so on.)
All in all, currently it semms that if both sides uses turtling necro is ahead, and likely only one faction's might hero can try to brake the formation, but it will probably lose anyway.
But some part of this (stronghold might) is theory, it needs testing, i have the connection error, but i would test it with anyone otherwise.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 19, 2011 03:48 PM |
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Edited by xerox at 17:00, 19 Aug 2011.
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Guess I should check my facts before publishing them.  PP
Anyway, I thought I would share my build. This is what I ended up with after a few duels with Necro turtle.
Necromancer V2
Magic
Tear
Dark Mastery ()
Paragon
Defender I % II = Reduced Might damage taken. Nice against Might-oriented factions such as Inferno and Stronghold.
Destiny's Choosen I & II = More lucky strikes makes me a happy printer.
Tactics
Tactics I & II = Essential for troop placement with Necro turtle.
Ambush = Necro is slow, I try to marginalize that weakness.
Warfare
Archery I & II = Weavers and Liches are the nukers in this strategy.
Giant Slayer = A no brainer imo.
Earth
Petrification = I use it to neutralize enemy champion stacks. You do not need any mastery in Earth for it to work on a 30x Champion stack.
Poison Cloud = I haven't really used it so far, but it lasts the whole battle and I can imagine that it would be a nice damage boost when enemies turtle. Can potentially cause some chaos at the enemy lines.
Summon Earth Elemental = This one is amazing. It can block all enemy shooters in one turn because of its size + petrification ability. It regenrates health too!
Water
Ice Wall = This was very useful in a recent game against Stronghold for me. It was the end of the battle and he had broken up my wall, so I casted Ice Wall to protect my shooters and it worked! Its situationary, but can make a big difference!
Ice Armor & Mass Ice Armour = Could be nice against Strongholds heavy might attacks.
Dark
Dark Mastery I, II = Not sure how much of a difference it makes, but I thought I would use it to mainly empower Puppet Master and Drain Life.
Darkness Elemental = I use it to block shooters, plus its some extra nice damage. It is over 30 free elite creatures!
Fear = Have not used it yet, but I want to explore its potential to replace Petrification. It brings some very nice debuffs with it too. I guess you could pull out enemy shooter with it to make them come in range of your Vampires (instead of teleporting them).
Purge = Very nice mass dispells against players who like to spam buffs.
Puppet Master = I use it on the enemys most powerful creatures and sometimes on their enemy shooters. Very, very nice crowd control.
Prime
Arcane Ward I = Nice stats for one point. Could give me a small advantage over enemy Necro and Haven players that have powerful Magic damage.
Time Stasis = I always forget to use it but seems really good.
Dispell = Situational. I have not used it so far. Might consider replacing it since Necro is immune to the powerful debuffs like Puppet Master anyway. Could counter Frenzy I guess.
Meditation = This is REALLY nice and empowers your spells a lot. You just gotta prioritze if its most important to cast it or mind control the enemy Cyclops and Mighty Slam their own troops!
Implosion = For some really nice damage when I have nothing to cast.
Arcane Exalation I, II and III = More Magic power equals win. ;D
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 19, 2011 04:25 PM |
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Okay I just tried out the Earth Elemental and its really owns! It can block all enemy shooters in the first turn! It has Petrification too and it very good survivability!
A very good ability to pick up, I am making some changes to my build now and Teleport won't be needed.
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted August 19, 2011 04:37 PM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 17:23, 19 Aug 2011.
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Stronghold might-blood hero with mass inner fire can break the lamasu and block both shooters first turn (if he guesses right wich corner the necro is in), but the low magic defense of the stronghold cratures and the might hero will more than likely hit back.. fate wavers can almost one shot everything, and life-drain, mass-lifedrain, healing of the ghost will be relly good when the magic defense of the opponents hero is so low. Btw, i made a formation that might be able to grant the fate waver at least a few shots.. and it really does not need any more.
The formation I'm using does not rely on the Lamas(s)u to allow the Fate Weavers to shoot. I'm picking Necropolis with 2 stacks of Specters (seriously, who would chose the other?), put the Fate Weavers in either corner, Ghouls + Vampires + Specters in front of them and Specters + Liches on their left/right and the Lamas(s)us shielding the Liches. So even if the Lamas(s)us are killed, only the Liches get blocked. This way the Fate Weavers shoot at will for at least a few turns which is usually enough. I'm thinking about ubusing Frenzy and Time Stasis against them but I don't think it will help much. Will give it a try though. If only Puppet Master was usable against Necropolis, it could have been much easier.
Edit: It doesn't work - Frenzy and Time Stasis get only 1 charge per battle each. 
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infinitus
Supreme Hero
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posted August 19, 2011 04:39 PM |
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Not only chat is better in H5. Game lobby in H5 is better too. You can see all players that are at the moment in lobby. You can talk to all at once, have common discussion without manipulations. Life is complicated enough, why to complicate it even more ? 
For some time my opinion about HC was "Singleplayer Heroes game Haven" ... But now with so much multiplayer "heresy" in this tread i proud to be part of HC !
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Nothing's impossible
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=loCSLJ6IodY
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 19, 2011 05:01 PM |
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Edited by xerox at 17:57, 19 Aug 2011.
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Mind puppeting the enemy's Cyclops in the first turn and then use their Mighty Slam on the enemy troops is hilarious. xD
And it causes some big damage too.
Screenshot:
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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conqr
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 19, 2011 05:53 PM |
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Edited by conqr at 18:16, 19 Aug 2011.
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The formation I'm using does not rely on the Lamas(s)u to allow the Fate Weavers to shoot. I'm picking Necropolis with 2 stacks of Specters (seriously, who would chose the other?), put the Fate Weavers in either corner, Ghouls + Vampires + Specters in front of them and Specters + Liches on their left/right and the Lamas(s)us shielding the Liches. So even if the Lamas(s)us are killed, only the Liches get blocked.
This is a good formation as well, the only thing i would consider is to switch the ghoul and a spectre because stronghold might be able to focus down ghouls.
@Xerox: You changed it, but i would add that the original slow idea might not really work, as the special does not effect mass slow (it did not for me) and that makes it -6ini,-1move but the game engine does only count it to be -5ini,-1move. A chain lightning + daze might work better, as its a 2.3k base damage spell and -10ini.
If the 'meta' becomes turtle-necro heavy, then adding magic defense can indeed be a good idea. Meditation does not work for me, though. Edit.. it does work on spells (not on creatures) but its effect is usually so tiny..
So if necro v. necro becomes a problem, i would add arcane ward I,II,III. (And maybe defender I against stronghold, but it might not be neccessary.)
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted August 19, 2011 06:30 PM |
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Sadly with my PC dead I can't play the beta, but I'm happy to see my impressions from closed beta time (that Necro eats every other faction without problems) were accurate I'm afraid however they will overnerf this faction to crap tier. Like the "balance teams" usually do. First something is broken beyond belief, then something is useless beyond belief :/
Wonder if Inner Fire/Mass Vampirism is still the "I win" button.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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infinitus
Supreme Hero
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posted August 19, 2011 06:43 PM |
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Sadly with my PC dead I can't play the beta, but I'm happy to see my impressions from closed beta time (that Necro eats every other faction without problems) were accurate
I use Haven battle mage, from magic i take only light and spell power enhancers from prime magic, the rest passive abilities. For now i never lost any duel. Two or 3 necromancers finished. Last battle with Necromancers just finished, long battle 2 hours or so, hard one ...
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Nothing's impossible
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=loCSLJ6IodY
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted August 19, 2011 06:56 PM |
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Wonder if Inner Fire/Mass Vampirism is still the "I win" button.
Not in the duels at least. Mass Drain Life is fairly reasonable when used by a Might hero and quite powerful with a Magic hero but then again the latter is not really helping his creatures to deal good damage. It seems to be all right when not used by Necropolis. Same for Mass Inner Fire - good, but not too good.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted August 19, 2011 07:13 PM |
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Well I heard they bugfixed Inner Fire, so that might be it.
Mass Lifedrain in closed beta means no loses for necropolis at all facing other factions, btw
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 19, 2011 07:32 PM |
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I don't really find Life Drain nescessary for Necro atm. I am doing fine by just having Ghosts and Necromancy heal, so I removed Life drain from the build i'm using atm.
Also a warning on Meditation:
It DOES NOT restore 30% of your starting mana, but of your current mana. So if you have 30 mana, it will only restore 10 mana...
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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yasmiel
Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
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posted August 19, 2011 07:54 PM |
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Yah it's been an odd day. 90% games involved necro on at least one side.
From now on I'm only playing duels with other 4 factions hehe
Also it seems that more than half players go with dark/prime, or some mixture of one and another.
I wish they added a "standard" 2 player map. I find the Bridge too far one slightly too simple to be a real map, while other 2 are for more players (even though they can be played with less).
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conqr
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 19, 2011 08:21 PM |
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Edited by conqr at 20:22, 19 Aug 2011.
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I use Haven battle mage, from magic i take only light and spell power enhancers from prime magic, the rest passive abilities. For now i never lost any duel. Two or 3 necromancers finished. Last battle with Necromancers just finished, long battle 2 hours or so, hard one ...
Were they good necro players? Using 'turtling'? If so, other than for ressurection's invulnerability bug it should have been very hard.
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From now on I'm only playing duels with other 4 factions hehe
Too bad that i have connection errors most of the time, i would really want to try at least stronghold might against a turtling necro.. : | Hotseat duel would be even better.. (at least for testing purposes)
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infinitus
Supreme Hero
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posted August 20, 2011 09:12 AM |
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Were they good necro players? Using 'turtling'?
Advanced tactic skill may help, morale, luck, initiative boost. In my game happen - First turn two stacks of glory clean up the way to Necromancer champions. Sisters may help to clean the meat barrage. Angels good morale, block on Necromancers champions. Summon from light magic near rest necro shooters . And so on ... Mass light shied (forget the name), vs mass vampirism may help units focus one by one.
Will by much easier to analyse balance if UBI will be so kind and will enable battle replays recording. By the way final version will have this future ?
____________
Nothing's impossible
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=loCSLJ6IodY
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