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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted December 02, 2011 11:50 PM |
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Both of us have been asking and asking for sim turns since we entered their forum, and I was completely stunned to learn that they weren't even planned initially, let alone included in the base game. Those things come to my mind as the only reason anybody bought Hammers of Fate, and they're my own highest-priority demand aside from fixing these obscene bugs and enhancing the editor's friendliness. I would love to see them in a patch as expediently as possible, but can't force the issue unless there is a huge community insurgence of people to back us up by screaming for them and demanding them (as with town screens)...
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Brukernavn
Hero of Order
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posted December 02, 2011 11:59 PM |
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Quote:
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I think the balancing issues will be addressed when the game is out of the beta stage. So probably after the summer.
If you actually read their patch note, you'd see they're doing balance fix before even fixing broken features/abilities/etc ... which makes absolutely zero sense.
Also I'm with Zenofex ... the change to Cerberi is really laughable. It's not 1 or 2 more defense they need ...
They're not fixing balance, they are changing a few numbers to satisfy a few people for a little while, until they realize it's not enough.
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Karanshade
Adventuring Hero
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posted December 03, 2011 12:34 AM |
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Quote:
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hopefully they will add simturns soon. furthermore a necromancy nerf is definetely needed.
btw luck isnt bugged, the damage is just +50% instead of +100% like in h5. for example if a creatures dmg ist 500-1000 and luck triggers the dmg is 750-1500. so even if luck triggers u can do more dmg without luck if u do the max dmg (in this case 1000)
Not true. Creatures that deal a specific amount of damage will deal the same damage with Luck as they did without. At least, I've seen this on Celestials / Seraphs.
On the other hand, I have seen hits dealing more damage than the max indicated by the tooltip, when Luck triggered on the attack.
Considering both, I am not sure what's up. However, most often it seems that the Luck-triggered damage is hardly ever above the maximum possible.
ok from my experience , some creatures do have lucky strike and some don't.
I remember ghosts,elementals, cerberus, i think succubus and vampires some more undeads had their lucky strikes
Some others never do , harpies for instance when you get the animation never ever makes a critical hit , not in log and damages can be under 150% of min damages.
Have a look and maybe we can come up with a list (maybe even a kind of rationale) of creatures affected by luck and those who aren't.
It is obviously a bug but since we don t when the patch will be out nor if it will correct this intolerable bug , it would be good to know which faction benefits from luck.
Quote:
Both of us have been asking and asking for sim turns since we entered their forum, and I was completely stunned to learn that they weren't even planned initially, let alone included in the base game. Those things come to my mind as the only reason anybody bought Hammers of Fate, and they're my own highest-priority demand aside from fixing these obscene bugs and enhancing the editor's friendliness. I would love to see them in a patch as expediently as possible, but can't force the issue unless there is a huge community insurgence of people to back us up by screaming for them and demanding them (as with town screens)...
I agree on the sim turn for mp duels would be nice , as well as being able to see allies fight vs neutral when playing team vs ai.
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Aosaw
Promising
Famous Hero
Author of Nonreal Fiction
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posted December 03, 2011 01:21 AM |
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See, I only ever played H5 on a Mac, so I never got to experience any of the expansions or the features they added (such as simultaneous turns, skill wheel, and alternate upgrades). So for me, I don't miss those features because I never had them - I'm much more concerned about the lack of real town screens.
That said, now I have a PC - and a gaming PC, to boot - so I might be able to (someday, funds permitting) pick up H5 with the expansions and see what all the fuss is about.
Until that day, I'd much rather see an improvement to the UI and skill system (read: town screens and a better skill tree).
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted December 03, 2011 02:27 AM |
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I'm still not entirely convinced that Necromancy as a skill is the main issue. It's obviously delightful for creeping but still fairly underwhelming in big fights, which I imagine is the idea. My biggest concerns for Noobopolis is the line-up. I'm also unhappy with the Necromancer's neutral reputation ability, Asha Uses All. It's strong.
I know I'm never going to get my way with this since there's too many anti-awesome Necro loyalists getting in the way, but I'd prefer if the uninspiring concept of Necromancy simply disappeared from the game and the undead's special was replaced with something that is somewhat less... like, you know, stupid. I haven't liked it since the 1990s and it keeps coming back again and again. It's like the herpes of Heroes.
On the creature end, the two units that are my biggest concern to date are 1) Liches and 2) Radiant Glories, with Radiant Glories being my biggest concern. Both of these units are pretty easy to kill but they just have too much potential. They need to tone down the Liches' 22nd century liquid plasma attack of death, and the Radiant Glories need restructured somehow. Their dispelling abilities is absolutely brutal, but even failing that they operate just as well as a ranged unit and the upgrade special ability is just as amazing. They can always try to justify it by saying, "But yeah, they're easy to take down", but I feel they went too extreme with their offensive/defensive potential. I'd be okay with notching up their defense a tad if they did something about their killer abilities. Just because a unit is possible to counter doesn't make it a well-made unit.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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RollingWave
Adventuring Hero
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posted December 03, 2011 03:37 AM |
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6 defense is the same as ....
A. Skeleton Spearmen
B. Ghouls
C. Specter
D. Kappa (and upgraded Kappas)
The problem of course, is that Ghoul have a 20% might deduction built in, and Specter not only have a 35% deduction built it they also have spirit form. making them virtually invunerable before they move.
So that leave us with Kappas and Upgraded Skeletons. I guess at least the good news is that Cerebus has a little more HP than Kappa (3 more) so it's going to be a little tougher than Kappa.... (without factoring in honor and all the other defense ability Sanctuary can give Kappa.) woopie doo. (it's better than nothing I guess.)
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted December 03, 2011 08:37 AM |
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Quote:
6 defense is the same as ....
A. Skeleton Spearmen
B. Ghouls
C. Specter
D. Kappa (and upgraded Kappas)
The problem of course, is that Ghoul have a 20% might deduction built in, and Specter not only have a 35% deduction built it they also have spirit form. making them virtually invunerable before they move.
So that leave us with Kappas and Upgraded Skeletons. I guess at least the good news is that Cerebus has a little more HP than Kappa (3 more) so it's going to be a little tougher than Kappa.... (without factoring in honor and all the other defense ability Sanctuary can give Kappa.) woopie doo. (it's better than nothing I guess.)
Yeah, but at least Kappa has the leap ability which will make him do pretty good damage without retaliation. Yes, he can only use it every second turn, but if you time it correctly, that will still help you a lot. Cerberus has no such feature.
Quote:
Both of us have been asking and asking for sim turns since we entered their forum, and I was completely stunned to learn that they weren't even planned initially, let alone included in the base game. Those things come to my mind as the only reason anybody bought Hammers of Fate, and they're my own highest-priority demand aside from fixing these obscene bugs and enhancing the editor's friendliness. I would love to see them in a patch as expediently as possible, but can't force the issue unless there is a huge community insurgence of people to back us up by screaming for them and demanding them (as with town screens)...
Arguably puzzeling. I always said that they favored multiplayer too much when developing this game, but perhaps I was wrong. Perhaps they only thought people cared about the campaigns? Or perhaps they just didn't think at all ... 
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What will happen now?
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Nelgirith
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted December 03, 2011 10:11 AM |
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For those of you who think we'll get sim turns, they already announced that had NO time to fix town screens, so to think that we'll get sim turns is only a dream 
Quote:
Not true. Creatures that deal a specific amount of damage will deal the same damage with Luck as they did without. At least, I've seen this on Celestials / Seraphs.
On the other hand, I have seen hits dealing more damage than the max indicated by the tooltip, when Luck triggered on the attack.
Considering both, I am not sure what's up. However, most often it seems that the Luck-triggered damage is hardly ever above the maximum possible.
The luck bug is in fact that the game shows a lucky strike when there's none. Sometimes you can see a lucky strike, but the combat log shows none - which means that the attack actually was NOT supposed to be a lucky strike.
Lucky strikes work well, there's indeed a +50% bonus - which means that sometimes you'll do less damage than your max damage (with creatures that have a big damage range). The issue is with the lucky strike animation which happens when it's not supposed to. I've had fights with Stronghold where after a real lucky strike, all my units kept having fake lucky strike animations until the end of the combat, sometimes even until the end of the map, and this ONLY happened with melee units.
Quote:
They're not fixing balance, they are changing a few numbers to satisfy a few people for a little while, until they realize it's not enough.
Stat changes and racials adjustments = balance. If not, I wonder what you'd call balance fix. The first issue here is that the game is still bugged and thus balancing is pointless. The second issue is that many of those changes make little sense - we tell them Cerberi need to be more resistant (aka they need more HP) and they give them 1 or 2 more defense  But well ... we've been telling them this since July and as a result, Cerberi even got a growth nerf ...
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted December 03, 2011 10:28 AM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 10:29, 03 Dec 2011.
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I'm still not entirely convinced that Necromancy as a skill is the main issue. It's obviously delightful for creeping but still fairly underwhelming in big fights, which I imagine is the idea.
How is it underwhelming in big fights, this is exactly where it is most imbalanced. A second, free source of resurrection which can be used literally each turn because the gauge is filling extremely quickly. Applied on the correct stacks, it could prolong the battle with several turns which are sufficient for the Necropolis hero to kill you with skills/spells even if he/she's losing the battle (which is pretty hard in the first place).
Quote:
and the Radiant Glories need restructured somehow. Their dispelling abilities is absolutely brutal, but even failing that they operate just as well as a ranged unit and the upgrade special ability is just as amazing.
True that but I think they should keep the dispel of debuffs cast on the own army and remove the dispel of buffs cast on the enemy creatures - which is just a legitimate abuse. Blind and hit-and-return without retaliation combined with very high speed and initiative is enough to keep them very powerful.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 03, 2011 12:35 PM |
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No! The Radiant Glory is the most fun unit to use in the game! I would hate it if they removed some of their abilities. Nerf their survivability and damage instead, as they are like ten times better than Griffins and Crusaders lol.
Necromancy is such a boring racial this game. I liked it much better in H5 with the Dark Energy and all that.
I expected H6 Necromancy to actually raise dead creatures as skeletons and stuff on the battlefield, but instead we got a glorified ressurection spell.
For H7, I really hope we get ZERO ressurection skills.
I would change it so that healed creatures in H6 are not kept after the combat ends, or introduce some kind of health penalty like in H5.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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tuinebap88
Tavern Dweller
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posted December 03, 2011 12:42 PM |
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here is the idea to fix
FIX THE BUG THAT CAUSE WHENEVER YOU RESTART THE CAMPAIGN, YOU CANNOT ACCESS TO THE FINAL CAMPAIGN; WHENEVER YOU SELEECT "+" SIGN, THE GAME CRASH
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted December 03, 2011 02:07 PM |
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Quote:
Some others never do , harpies for instance when you get the animation never ever makes a critical hit , not in log and damages can be under 150% of min damages.
Odd, I experience the Harpies getting a lot of lucky strikes and when they do, it's almost guaranteed to be higher than their max normal damage. Strange that experience differs so much.
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Nocturnal
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted December 03, 2011 04:36 PM |
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Quote:
hopefully they will add simturns soon. furthermore a necromancy nerf is definetely needed.
btw luck isnt bugged, the damage is just +50% instead of +100% like in h5. for example if a creatures dmg ist 500-1000 and luck triggers the dmg is 750-1500. so even if luck triggers u can do more dmg without luck if u do the max dmg (in this case 1000)
We know that it is %50 in H6  But those don't happen. Lucky strikes I mean. Just the animation is shown but the damage is the regular one.
Quote:
See, I only ever played H5 on a Mac, so I never got to experience any of the expansions or the features they added (such as simultaneous turns, skill wheel, and alternate upgrades).
That said, now I have a PC - and a gaming PC, to boot - so I might be able to (someday, funds permitting) pick up H5 with the expansions and see what all the fuss is about.
You're in for a several years' obsession
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Aosaw
Promising
Famous Hero
Author of Nonreal Fiction
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posted December 03, 2011 06:48 PM |
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Edited by Aosaw at 18:49, 03 Dec 2011.
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I hope you're right. My brother never played the expansions either - we might actually have a reason to play online with each other (we live in different states).
Personally, I never liked the Dark Energy from H5; I much preferred the Skeletons/Skeleton Archers. As I understood it, the problem there was that you acquired too many skeletons too quickly, and they became an unstoppable force.
My question to that is, wouldn't the better solution be to simply make skeletons weaker as a unit? Give each skeleton 1 hit point and deal 1 damage, so that when you have a thousand of them in your army, it's not an overwhelming unit.
But that's a moot point, since necromancy in H6 doesn't really seem to exist at all. I really enjoyed the fact that necromancers' armies were less tough but much much larger, by virtue of harvesting everyone else's dead units.
EDIT: Much more larger? Oi. Make that "Much more numerous" instead...
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted December 05, 2011 07:14 AM |
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With respect to Necro racial being too strong and Inferno racial being too weak:
The problem with Necromancy racial ability is that the individual troops are similar in strength to their counterpart factions, in H5 you needed about triple the stack size to compare to might factions....so for necromancy, they should either nerf the guage to not rise too quickly OR to make the individual troops much weaker than their counterpart factions.
The problem with Inferno racial ability is that it isn't instant...I strongly feel gating is something needed upfront so suggest that the Inferno guage acts differently and starts at 100% so that you can use gating then goes to 0% and only after that does it build up like the other racials....either this, or to make the guage fill up quicker.
Like town screens and sim turns, this will take a while to get fixed (like 2nd expansion maybe) and not with patches....
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RollingWave
Adventuring Hero
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posted December 05, 2011 07:23 AM |
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Quote:
With respect to Necro racial being too strong and Inferno racial being too weak:
The problem with Necromancy racial ability is that the individual troops are similar in strength to their counterpart factions, in H5 you needed about triple the stack size to compare to might factions....so for necromancy, they should either nerf the guage to not rise too quickly OR to make the individual troops much weaker than their counterpart factions.
The problem with Inferno racial ability is that it isn't instant...I strongly feel gating is something needed upfront so suggest that the Inferno guage acts differently and starts at 100% so that you can use gating then goes to 0% and only after that does it build up like the other racials....either this, or to make the guage fill up quicker.
Like town screens and sim turns, this will take a while to get fixed (like 2nd expansion maybe) and not with patches....
Well, right now Necro have 1 ridiculas unit (lich) 3 good units (Weaver / Ghoul / Specter ) and 3 blah unit, as long as they nerf the Lich....
Inferno's gate is actually not that bad, the non-instant part is not really the problem and have many potential uses (blocking, cover, bait etc..), the really big downside is that if your original stack is killed so would the gated stack, change that and it's quite good. That, and buff Breeder somewhow plz, it's uber garbarge right now, even with storm arrow cast on it it STILL doesn't outshoot Lilim and Lilim don't exactly outshoot a ton of units to begin with. my suggestion is that everytime it gets to leech mana it "grows" more, aka the proliferation ability gets chagned so that it changes to every range hit against enemy heroes will let it heal 5% of it's total HP AND if they're at max already they'll keep growing. That or it's leech ability can remove unit's active ability (such as Specter's wail ), that would instantly make it quite scary.
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kodial79
Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
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posted December 05, 2011 08:08 AM |
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Yeah, I agree with that. The Liches do ridiculous damage. If you can come up with 200-300 of them, they can one-shot almost anything. Like taking down 50 cyclopes with one hit. That needs to change.
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Signature? I don't need no stinking signature!
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Karanshade
Adventuring Hero
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posted December 05, 2011 04:03 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Some others never do , harpies for instance when you get the animation never ever makes a critical hit , not in log and damages can be under 150% of min damages.
Odd, I experience the Harpies getting a lot of lucky strikes and when they do, it's almost guaranteed to be higher than their max normal damage. Strange that experience differs so much.
Oo are you sure of this ? I m currently replaying campaign scenarios that are based on farm (like inferno3 strongh3) just to check combat logs. I never ever have the lucky strike on harpies (on the effect I mean).
I m drawing a list of creature that do receve criticial strike and those that don t. If you have critical strike on harpies (not just the animation but increased damages) that means I m doing it for nothing cause it would be system dependant oO could you double check ?
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forest001
Known Hero
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posted December 05, 2011 04:22 PM |
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@Karanshade
My harpies work every single time, upgrades and non upgrades.
whenever they get horseshoe animation appears they do increased damage that is shown in red and lucky strike is looged into combat log.
there is couple other units that work fine (Liches, skeleton spearman i think, shark guard, and cerberi)
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Nocturnal
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted December 05, 2011 05:36 PM |
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Quote:
there is couple other units that work fine (Liches, skeleton spearman i think, shark guard, and cerberi)
I can confirm Shark Guard and Cerberi do not have that. I've finished both factions' campaign and lucky strikes also don't work for them.
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