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| Thread: H6 Lore and Trivia *Spoilers!* |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Avonu
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Embracing light and darkness
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posted September 25, 2012 05:07 PM |
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Edited by Avonu at 17:26, 25 Sep 2012.
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At that time, they did not have such a complex background like now, Only few themathical scetches done by mr. Ledroit.
Not only, Ubisoft had already Ashan Compendium with much of its lore. Not with so many detail as we know now but generally they had all these information before they started work.
IIRC Nival has also other vision of Ashan (as Axeoth in far future) but this concept was abandoned in favour of current Ashan mythology.
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A shadow dragon was a Tier 7 now he is a Boss
We don't have shadow dragon in HVI. We didn't see any dragon yet (excluding Danse Macabre, which should show us Bone Dragon "prototype"), we only have Dragon Knight in dragon form, which can be more powerful then dragon itself. As for shadow dragon... well, Ubisoft promised us at least one expansion with one new faction and hints from HVI outro says, that we should see some dragons eventually.
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted September 25, 2012 05:41 PM |
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We didn't see any dragon yet
Sorry, but we've seen. Hai Ryuo is a Dragon of Water, Dragon Eel. On shadow dragon case I completely agree with you.
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Dave_Jame
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I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted September 25, 2012 05:47 PM |
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Not only, Ubisoft had already Ashan Compendium with much of its lore. Not with so many detail as we know now but generally they had all these information before they started work.
IIRC Nival has also other vision of Ashan (as Axeoth in far future) but this concept was abandoned in favour of current Ashan mythology.
Then it was not that complex as it is now. Am I right? And we are generaly talking about art now. So even Erwan said that UbiMaM was still serching for its art direction even after the developement of Heroes VI started. So yes there had to be some basic setup, but nothing like we have now. I'm sure you have seen the several Rakshasa artworks done in the developement of Heroes V, and even the Naga Artwork, that preceeded them, as they have been considered as Academy units. And as you stated the Beta-ashan is another of these examples.
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We don't have shadow dragon in HVI. We didn't see any dragon yet (excluding Danse Macabre, which should show us Bone Dragon "prototype"), we only have Dragon Knight in dragon form, which can be more powerful then dragon itself. As for shadow dragon... well, Ubisoft promised us at least one expansion with one new faction and hints from HVI outro says, that we should see some dragons eventually.
We actually have two dragons in the basic game, The Dragon Eel is considered a Dragon, even if only a spiritual reflection of one. And also the dragon knight you speak about, is just an excuse why to put in something that look exactly like the concept art of the Goddess of darkness. And your prototyp in Da-Ma is basicly only a recoloring of this model. Even the description of the final blood boos says it is a Daughter of Malassa so even if it is only an "ability" of a knight, it depicts how the children of Malassa look like now. And it doesn't matter if I call their older incarnarion Shadow or Black. They are both "The children of the goddess of darkness"
Also If you have the colectors edition art book, look at the Gods part and at Malassa. You will find the following note there "Malassa, Black Dragon (Darkness)"
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War-overlord
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Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted September 25, 2012 07:02 PM |
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At that time, they did not have such a complex background like now, Only few themathical scetches done by mr. Ledroit.
Not only, Ubisoft had already Ashan Compendium with much of its lore. Not with so many detail as we know now but generally they had all these information before they started work.
IIRC Nival has also other vision of Ashan (as Axeoth in far future) but this concept was abandoned in favour of current Ashan mythology.
If the interview with Erwan over on Behemoth's Lair here is anything to go by, and I would argue that it is, Ashan was in fact not entirely thought out, specifically Dungeon. Which is why the Compendium retconns things quite heavily here and there, simply because Nival had to deliver something and they took the liberty to create things with what little guidelines have been given.
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Zenofex
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Kreegan-atheist
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posted September 25, 2012 11:08 PM |
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IIRC Nival has also other vision of Ashan (as Axeoth in far future)
Are you sure that this was indeed Nival's design? Sounds almost identical with the "theories" of one particular Kreegans-only-want-to-spread-the-Fire-Realm philosopher from Celestial Heavens.
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Avonu
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Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
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posted September 26, 2012 07:36 AM |
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Edited by Avonu at 07:46, 26 Sep 2012.
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Don't even dare to remind me of this person. 
And am I sure? Not in 100% but if you read some town bios from HV vanillia scenarioes, you will see there are some text about Axeoth, which were later scrapped in favour of current lore.
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If the interview with Erwan over on Behemoth's Lair here is anything to go by, and I would argue that it is, Ashan is in fact not entirely thought out
Fixed for you.
Of course not. Not all was carve in stone back there but some things like culture and Ashan history were done (as Dark Elves clan names or their history).
@Dave_Jame
But we don't have shadow or black dragon in HVI. These two boss "dragons" are "new" creatures (if you judge them by their description). So saying that shadow/black dragon was "champion" in HV and it is boss in HVI is not true.
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Dave_Jame
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posted September 26, 2012 02:23 PM |
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@Avonu
edited.. ok have to read thing tow times bfor I reply.
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I'm just a Mirror of your self.
We see, we look, we gather, we store, we teach.
We are many, and you can be one of us.
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Avonu
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
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posted October 01, 2012 09:04 AM |
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Correct, though the Lake Elves and Moonblade Elves are yet to be confirmed as differing from other Sylvan Elves
Lake Elves are just Elves, who lived at lake. They are not another race of Elves, they just lived there.
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Ergal: Tieru! That is a grim oath. But listen, We have run and hunted far. The traitors who follow Tuidhana took refuge with their kin, the lake elves.
Tieru: You are sure?
Ergal: Yes. The ties of family seem stronger than the oaths of fealty. Let's hunt them like the beasts they are, Tieru. And pray that Sylanna grants Irollan a chance to heal.
There are some kind of renegades and pirates.
As for Moonblade Elves - they seem to be just another clan of Elves from Irollan.
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Sandro400
Promising
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Shadow of Death
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posted October 01, 2012 11:23 AM |
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Lake Elves are just Elves, who lived at lake. They are not another race of Elves, they just lived there.
There are some kind of renegades and pirates.
As for Moonblade Elves - they seem to be just another clan of Elves from Irollan.
Yeah, Sea Elves are just Elves who live on sea  The question was "which elven types" not "which elven races"  To begin with, all Elves (Dark, Sea etc) were part of Sylvan at the very beginning, because they were created by Sylanna and later split into clans and factions. As for me, clan is also "type" because each clan differs from others at something.
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War-overlord
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Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted October 01, 2012 11:34 AM |
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Correct, though the Lake Elves and Moonblade Elves are yet to be confirmed as differing from other Sylvan Elves
Lake Elves are just Elves, who lived at lake. They are not another race of Elves, they just lived there.
Quote:
Ergal: Tieru! That is a grim oath. But listen, We have run and hunted far. The traitors who follow Tuidhana took refuge with their kin, the lake elves.
Tieru: You are sure?
Ergal: Yes. The ties of family seem stronger than the oaths of fealty. Let's hunt them like the beasts they are, Tieru. And pray that Sylanna grants Irollan a chance to heal.
There are some kind of renegades and pirates.
As for Moonblade Elves - they seem to be just another clan of Elves from Irollan.
Well my point was, and maybe I'm expressing it too british, unless said otherwise Moonblade and Lake Elves are Sylvan Elves. They appear to be distinct clans in Irollan, but still denizens of said realm.
The reasons why both Sea and Dark Elves can be seen as differing is because they have a different culture and belief-system, even though physically Sea and Sylvan Elves are the same.
In regard to Lake Elf support of the Dark Elves, one needs to keep in mind when this scenario was placed. These are the Days of Fire. Tuidhana's Secession was a mere 31 years ago, a very short period for an Elf. Before the Secession, the Elves of Tuidhana's Clan were Sylvan Elves like any other and they had ties to other Elven Clans, as it appears the Lake Elves prominent among them.
One also has to take in regard that there was a lot of protest among the Elven Clans towards Arniel's Reform. So one would understand that Old Bonds still have meaning opposed to disliked reforms. Which does not mean that Lake Elves therefor, per definition, agree or ally with the Dark Elves.
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Dave_Jame
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posted October 01, 2012 04:52 PM |
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Yeah, Sea Elves are just Elves who live on sea The question was "which elven types" not "which elven races" To begin with, all Elves (Dark, Sea etc) were part of Sylvan at the very beginning, because they were created by Sylanna and later split into clans and factions. As for me, clan is also "type" because each clan differs from others at something.
Actually it is unknown if the mortal races were created by the particular dragon or by their mother Asha, In the old timeline, the creation of the mortal races was written in this form:
"Eldar races have been created to serve the elemental dragons"
Not a word who created them, Also many texts give hints, that not all gods are the same age. I remember reading somewher that Ylath was the youngest of the dragon gods.
But this all could have been clerified. How is it written in the Book War-overlord?
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I'm just a Mirror of your self.
We see, we look, we gather, we store, we teach.
We are many, and you can be one of us.
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War-overlord
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Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted October 01, 2012 04:57 PM |
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Asha has created all Elder Races(Angels, Faceless, Naga, Dwarves, Elves & Humans) for her children. So they would have followers and be worshipped. Each of these races is imbued with a fraction of their patron's element and are intrinsically linked to those elemental Magic Schools.
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Sandro400
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Shadow of Death
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posted October 01, 2012 05:37 PM |
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I'm sorry. Yeah, Elves were created by Asha, but the meaning of my post is still the same - all of them were once part of the big nation which later split into factions - and factions into clans.
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Avonu
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Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
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posted October 01, 2012 05:50 PM |
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Edited by Avonu at 17:59, 01 Oct 2012.
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Quote:
Asha has created all Elder Races (Angels, Faceless, Naga, Dwarves, Elves & Humans) for her children. So they would have followers and be worshipped. Each of these races is imbued with a fraction of their patron's element and are intrinsically linked to those elemental Magic Schools.
Erwan Le Breton said something else - that each Dragon God helped Asha to create Ashan (such as Arkath created its sun and Ashan's fiery core and Shalaasa rivers, lakes and seas, and so on) and each one of Dragon Gods created each race to help them with their task.
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I'm sorry. Yeah, Elves were created by Asha, but the meaning of my post is still the same - all of them were once part of the big nation which later split into factions - and factions into clans.
Not really. It was stated in time-line (which can be no longer true because of possible retcons), that Irollan has several kingdoms (like Tuidhana's one) which were subject to Elven King. Each kingdom seems to be house of each clan but all these clans were still one faction - Sylvan.
IIRC Dark Elves are also different from normal Elves - they are imbue with powers of Malassa, so they are different in some kind from other spiked-ears.
And before Irollan there was Shantiri Empire, where Elves seems to live in first place (and probably many more ancients kingdoms before Shantiri).
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Dave_Jame
Promising
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I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted October 01, 2012 05:53 PM |
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Erwan Le Breton said something else - that each Dragon God helped Asha to create Ashan (such as Arkath created sun and Ashan's fiery core and Shalaasa rivers, lakes and seas) and each Dragon God created each race to help them with their task.
Since I do not recall reading any of this, can you link the source?
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I'm just a Mirror of your self.
We see, we look, we gather, we store, we teach.
We are many, and you can be one of us.
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Avonu
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
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posted October 01, 2012 05:58 PM |
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Edited by Avonu at 18:00, 01 Oct 2012.
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Sorry, I can't. It was in his briefing of Ashan history (mainly how Ashan was created, six kinds of dragon crystals, few words about Void, what are Eclipses, etc.) on Fanday in Poland and there is no text in the net about it as far as I know.
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted October 01, 2012 06:30 PM |
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Not really. It was stated in time-line (which can be no longer true because of possible retcons), that Irollan has several kingdoms (like Tuidhana's one) which were subject to Elven King. Each kingdom seems to be house of each clan but all these clans were still one faction - Sylvan.
IIRC Dark Elves are also different from normal Elves - they are imbue with powers of Malassa, so they are different in some kind from other spiked-ears.
And before Irollan there was Shantiri Empire, where Elves seems to live in first place (and probably many more ancients kingdoms before Shantiri).
Hm, I don't think that Asha/Sylanna created Elves in such way that there're already were clans Later they divided into clans and their worship. Well, IMO, of course, but I really don't think that Dragons divided Elves at the very start.
We have two Elven factions - Wood/Dark and Sea Elves, which are not a "playable" faction. They are divided into clans (Souslcar etc), Sea Elves - into "crews". That's what we know 100%. About Lake and Moonblade we can only build theories. I think that Lake Elves are subfaction of Sea Elves (they both have connection with water).
P.S.: I mentioned those two in the quiz just in case; who knows what was the correct answer to the question. By the way, H6 has Undead Sylvan Elf Luna
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Dexter
Known Hero
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posted October 01, 2012 07:54 PM |
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According to the World Bible it was Asha who created the Elder Races, just like someone mentioned already. Avonu, you might have either misunderstood Erwan duriing his presentation, or he might have made a mistake.
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Avonu
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
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posted October 01, 2012 07:58 PM |
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The second... or maybe another thing was retconned again.
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Dave_Jame
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posted October 01, 2012 08:08 PM |
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Or the most sacred of all misunderstandings.
LANGUAGE BARIER
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I'm just a Mirror of your self.
We see, we look, we gather, we store, we teach.
We are many, and you can be one of us.
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