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The_Polyglot
Promising
Supreme Hero
Nuttier than squirrel poo
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posted January 24, 2013 04:47 PM |
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Right, sorry scratch that. Was the Lotused unit Intimidated by any chance?
Like it or not, all such instant effects do that(Sun Steed, Out of Time, etc).
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Sanity through drugs. Order yours today!
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Gameslayer989
Known Hero
Always looking for a fight!
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posted January 24, 2013 04:57 PM |
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Yeah as i said i know all instant effects do that, but to completly negate something like being frozen it really should be considered an exloit or at the very least a bug, because there's no way that's completly intentional.
And no, the lotus'd unit was not intimidated or had any adverse effects that would prevent it from attacking (except that one time where it was blinded but that was a whole different time and place since I used the taunt lotus combo about 4 times that game, just to prove thta it doesn't work).
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The_Polyglot
Promising
Supreme Hero
Nuttier than squirrel poo
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posted January 24, 2013 05:02 PM |
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How is it an exploit if it's unintentional on the player's part? It does suck, but to ban usage of such abilities would greatly upset balance. H6 is a fickle mistress
I'll look into the Lotus thing, try to replicate it.
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Sanity through drugs. Order yours today!
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Gameslayer989
Known Hero
Always looking for a fight!
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posted January 24, 2013 05:15 PM |
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It's not about banning said abilities, it's about not using them to simply get rid of 1 turn debuffs such as being frozen, things that would cause a unit to not be able to move or attack and maybe even force the unit to skip a turn.
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The_Polyglot
Promising
Supreme Hero
Nuttier than squirrel poo
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posted January 24, 2013 05:21 PM |
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Who would do that anyway? 
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Sanity through drugs. Order yours today!
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Gameslayer989
Known Hero
Always looking for a fight!
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posted January 24, 2013 05:34 PM |
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People who want to win? Seriously, being frozen is a really big deal.
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Nikolas
Hired Hero
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posted January 24, 2013 05:36 PM |
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I am not sure if i got that right but here's my choices:
Necro:Blood
Haven:Tears
Inferno:Tears
Stronghold:Blood
As long as ultimates i think that the only crazy stuff is that tide thing sanctuary magic does.But i wouldnt mind using them.it will be a challenge to try and mix all those things combined with extra artifacts.
That brings me to another thing about artifacts,maybe the comb should be banned.i find it very confusing when a might hero can puppet master your units.
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted January 24, 2013 05:37 PM |
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I agree that units affected by most abilities/spells should stay on that unit and not be dispelled by means other than dispel spell...some abilities/spells should be difficult to remove, like puppet, intimidate, etc.
@Elvin, on the duel map, I've been meaning to ask, what's with the 1 griffin on each hero starting?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 24, 2013 06:07 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 18:11, 24 Jan 2013.
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I did not comment on eightfold lotus because none but the morale thing sounds like a bug. It's what I would have expected without even using the ability beforehand. Maybe I understand the game's quirks only too well, maybe you take the description too literally, who knows. But there is no greater lie than when you hear always, there are always exceptions  When an ability causes units to always retaliate and another to not retaliate, the reasonable thing to expect is the second.
And yes I consider the glory's ability activation to get rid of freeze an exploit. The same cannot be said for sun crusader because he turns into something insubstantial so if freeze did still work, I would consider that a bug instead.
The griffin is a leftover from the previous version where your army was a mixed joiner stack. It was impossible for them to join if you didn't have at least one unit on you To be fixed.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Gameslayer989
Known Hero
Always looking for a fight!
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posted January 24, 2013 06:24 PM |
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Yeah you must know the game too well because if one causes no retaliation and the other says causes retaliation no matter what I would assume that the ability is designed to allow a unit to retaliate even when he's not suppost to and so when it doesn't that's a horribly misleading description, and perhaps the description should be changed to 'allows retaliation unlimited number of times even against creatures that have no retaliation', because saying NO MATTER WHAT is a very definitive statement. Perhaps they simply failed to translate it to english properly or something then, because NO MATTER WHAT means NO MATTER WHAT ELSE HAPPENS THIS UNIT WILL RETALIATE IGNORING EVERY OTHER RULE IN THE GAME!
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KaynaCrous
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 24, 2013 06:46 PM |
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I dont think its a bug. every time you re invincible and attack a unit, you get no retaliation on you. like you can cast petrification on a unit before attacking to absorb the counter.
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Locksley
Promising
Famous Hero
Wielding a six-string
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posted January 24, 2013 07:04 PM |
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I think this duel highlighted some important problems: guardian angel iv and the activated abilities.
Let's compare with my duel on p 20.
Ok I was inferno but with the same plan, to use my amulet of thunder on the air vulnerable nagas.
And then my enemy was magic with control spells, but Gameslayer was even better at controlling with might abilities like intimidation, taunt+huge might defence. It looks like I should loose.
However as inferno I had no guardian angel that heals back half my losses in one go.
That's a big difference.
In other duels I played, Elvin wins with GA4 in first tournament while Simpel had to struggle at least a little bit without GA4 in the down-scaled round (angels&sister>necromancy).
GA4 is very strong and unlike necromancy the circle fills up pretty fast.
I should add that I had 40 spell power which is a lot, on the other hand Gameslayer had many health+ effects and Honour- The SP doesn't explain the victory on it's own, imba healing was necessary.
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Re artifacts
I found a good set
There may be 155 arties but they are divided in levels from minor to relic. And in each level we can choose between 5 or 20 arties. It's likely that sets can be gathered then. Less alternatives makes it less likely, but with too few alternatives we will get too many shields or shoes or ...
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Using creatures' activated abilities in purpose to escape negative effects or negate protective effects on enemy units, is something I propose we ban.
Diving with grounded griffins is mentioned as forbidden, but that is only one example.
Only problem is that this is easy to forget, there are a lot of abilities and spells to remember.
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I agree with Gameslayer re Eightfold Lotus, it should say unlimited retaliations and not no matter what to be ok.
A, b, d sounds very buggy, but C (Guardian angel protection) is more ok since GA also always should work.
Also, I activated frozen glories but decided not move as it would be an exploit.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 24, 2013 07:13 PM |
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Seeing as it's us and us, I don't think we will have any exploit issues I do not believe one of us would do that just to win.
Guardian angel IV is very strong but I wouldn't go as far as to call it overpowered. You must remember that I REALLY struggled to take you down. You sir, are one tough cookie. To think that it once brought back 28% of the stack.. Those were the days.. 
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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KaynaCrous
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 24, 2013 07:24 PM |
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speaking of bugs, dont forget the sanctuary unit with good morale that backtracks into the mist to have a moral action with full movement and full damage instead of half.
ALso dont forget that fate weaver that regains all start of combat bonuses every time it switches form ( +5 initiative and counter attack bonuses, best abused with the might tear hero ) along with resetting its baleful gaze.
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The_Polyglot
Promising
Supreme Hero
Nuttier than squirrel poo
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posted January 24, 2013 07:29 PM |
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the first isn't a bug, it's tactics. The second is a bug, but I played Necro 2 times in the past 2 days, and Baleful Gaze didn't reset.
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Sanity through drugs. Order yours today!
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Gameslayer989
Known Hero
Always looking for a fight!
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posted January 24, 2013 07:47 PM |
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Quote:
Ok I was inferno but with the same plan, to use my amulet of thunder on the air vulnerable nagas.
And then my enemy was magic with control spells, but Gameslayer was even better at controlling with might abilities like intimidation, taunt+huge might defence. It looks like I should loose.
However as inferno I had no guardian angel that heals back half my losses in one go.
That's a big difference.
Awww thank you. I did try my all at disaling you, but it doesn't seem to be the best strategy against the morale heavy haven anyway 
Quote:
I should add that I had 40 spell power which is a lot, on the other hand Gameslayer had many health+ effects and Honour- The SP doesn't explain the victory on it's own, imba healing was necessary.
Nah my artifacts couldn't hope to match yours, but I took that with a pinch of salt. As you said, even without the power you still would have won eventually. I completly destroyed you for the first few turns purely because of my boots of the seafarer or something like that, the +5 initative is HUGE, but you would have won eventually anyway, because I SUCK with everything that isn't inferno
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Using creatures' activated abilities in purpose to escape negative effects or negate protective effects on enemy units, is something I propose we ban.
Diving with grounded griffins is mentioned as forbidden, but that is only one example.
YEAH! WHY DO GRIFFINS GET PRIVILAGES??? Perhaps it's jsut my prejudice talkign thoguh because i really hate glories
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A, b, d sounds very buggy, but C (Guardian angel protection) is more ok since GA also always should work.
Yeah I didn't have a problem with that, I just wanted 4 things and could only remember 3
Quote:
Also, I activated frozen glories but decided not move as it would be an exploit.
This is why he's a true gentleman (no homo )
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Guardian angel IV is very strong but I wouldn't go as far as to call it overpowered. You must remember that I REALLY struggled to take you down. You sir, are one tough cookie. To think that it once brought back 28% of the stack.. Those were the days..
Well I personally believe guardian angel 1, 2 3 and 4 are all over-powered
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted January 24, 2013 07:57 PM |
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Let's have a friendly duel someone, gameslayer? I want to be Haven
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Gameslayer989
Known Hero
Always looking for a fight!
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posted January 24, 2013 08:02 PM |
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted January 24, 2013 08:19 PM |
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Okay added on uPlay, but added as friend in actual Heroes anyway, so let's go!
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PANCZASU
Hired Hero
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posted January 24, 2013 08:19 PM |
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Gameslayer told me to hurry over here. I didn't have time to read the thread, but if there are any spots left for another player, sign me in!
Now to actually read all of this...
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Proud to be a SONE ^^
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This thread is pages long: 
