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| Thread: Heroes 6 SOD strategy: Playing Dungeon faction |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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NamelessOrder
Famous Hero
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posted May 15, 2013 05:34 PM |
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Quote:
I was asking if it is comparable with hailstorm aura from those of you that have played more than me. I still haven`t played a final battle with DUN. How did you grasp sarcasm from a sentence with so few words?
my apologies. Well, obviously Hailstorm Aura is better. It has to be even without playing the game:
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Withering breath - The Black Dragon attacks, dealing 100% Darkness damage and inflicting a 15% Darkness damage-over-time to the target enemy creature whenever it acts, until the target dies or at the end of combat. Each turn, the damage-over-time is increased by 1% of the Shadow Dragon's base damage up to a maximum of 20%. Cooldown: 3 turns
DoT is dispellable so its not so scary
No retaliation to this attack
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Hailstorm Aura The creature attacks target enemy stack dealing 30 (+stats, +num) damage (Water) in addition to its normal attack damage. Victims are also inflicted by the “Frozen” effect. Cooldown: 3.
i'm almost sure they cannot retaliate
Both me and DD thought that you are simply mocking Dragons.
PS. I haven't played so much DUN, just around dozen of duels with them and another dozen vs them. No SP, i haven't even touched campaign.
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Uplay: ZergRusher | H6: Thoughts on duels | DoC: Cassa
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted May 15, 2013 06:42 PM |
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I know those things you wrote down but I can`t figure out the dmg from the kirins. Both attacks are no retaliation for sure.
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NamelessOrder
Famous Hero
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posted May 15, 2013 07:03 PM |
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Quote:
I know those things you wrote down but I can`t figure out the dmg from the kirins. Both attacks are no retaliation for sure.
from my experience the dmg from HA is very high. The magical attack dmg (might Sanc vs might Haven) is much higher than might dmg so i don't know whether description is accurate (many a times it isn't e.g. griffin's dive).
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Uplay: ZergRusher | H6: Thoughts on duels | DoC: Cassa
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted May 16, 2013 07:34 AM |
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I thought you were being sarcastic too, cos HA is way powerful compared to Dragon's ability....
Besides, aethetically, I just hate how the dragons fly all slow and wimpy like....H5 dragons came swooping in all epic like....
Scorpicores fly like champs though!
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Hermes
Famous Hero
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posted May 16, 2013 10:08 AM |
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I found Withering Breath quite powerful to be honest. Its passive BD ability that I think is lacking. 20% is a way too small imo. It almost never comes up.
In my duel against Boneguard, he was on a top left corner, I was in a bottom right.
His positioning was like this:
Liches-Skeletons-Ghosts
FateWeavers-Ghouls
-Vampires
Lamasus
I was in a turtle too, but I quickly figured out that his Fate Weavers and Skeletons would destroy me much quicker. So I approached carefully, distracted him with Stalking Shade, but only way to block his FW was to put some small creature right in between them and lamasus, but any creature put like that would be destroyed quickly(as a witnessed after summoning some Dark Elementals there). So what I did was:
1. Casted Mass Weakness on him(he did so as well)
2. casted mass regeneration, very powerful spell I found
3. Always had Watchers in invisibility and waiting until end of turn(thus also increasing my spellpower)
4. Casted time statis on skeletons for 3 turns, pertification of FW.
5. Only used dragons in the end of a turn by using Withering Breath on one of his stack and then flying back from vacmpire/ghoul/lamasus reach beginning next turn.
6. Did same trick with Scorpicores on his vampires.
7. Used whirling death regardless of say hitting dragons for a bit.
8. Last but probably most important, used Watchers abyssal dweller on every one of his stacks.
I only casted spells like time statis after he used his hero turn(was afraid of Dispel, but apparently he did not have it).
Basically I have won by attrition, my troops regenerated every turn, and i did not give him enough opportunities to use Ghosts ability or his racial passive. Withering breath was in the end on every one of his stack, doing reliable damage every turn. I also summoned some earth elementals and had them defend next to his liches in the end of battle. Used Faceless purge to remove some of his buffs.
Overall I made few mistakes as well, and it was very difficult and long battle.
I also found that when fighting against Sanctuary might, block Kirin by any means, never let it attack or spread its mist. Its really make or break against Sanctuary as a Magic Dungeon. (still no idea though how to counter Celestials)
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blob2
Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
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posted May 16, 2013 11:26 AM |
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I noticed that Withering Breath does less dmg then Black Dragons normal attack. Is it because it's Darkness dmg and as such magic resistance reduces it?
Also the best way to block a Kirin is using Manticores/Scorpicores special ability no?
PS: Fun fact: in Polish version of the game Scorpicores are called Chimeras  What do you people think?
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NamelessOrder
Famous Hero
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posted May 16, 2013 11:30 AM |
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Quote:
I noticed that Withering Breath does less dmg then Black Dragons normal attack. Is it because it's Darkness dmg and as such magic resistance reduces it?
yes, although in might vs might duels it should never happen. Do you have magic power +5 abilities? I think you should also invest in dark magic power +6.
Quote:
Also the best way to block a Kirin is using Manticores/Scorpicores special ability no?
does it work on Kirins? They have "water flows freely" passive so it shouldn't.
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Uplay: ZergRusher | H6: Thoughts on duels | DoC: Cassa
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted May 16, 2013 12:10 PM |
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Quote:
PS: Fun fact: in Polish version of the game Scorpicores are called Chimeras What do you people think?
Chimeras have snake tails and are fire breathing....in greek mythology....
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted May 16, 2013 02:22 PM |
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Hailstorm aura was bugged before maybe as might HA is comparable to Withering Breath.
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NamelessOrder
Famous Hero
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posted May 16, 2013 02:45 PM |
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Quote:
Hailstorm aura was bugged before maybe as might HA is comparable to Withering Breath.
HA is no longer bugged
HA is not comparable to WB, no matter the matchup it is always better.
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Uplay: ZergRusher | H6: Thoughts on duels | DoC: Cassa
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted May 16, 2013 03:01 PM |
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ok thanks for the information
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Hermes
Famous Hero
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posted May 16, 2013 04:30 PM |
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Better at what? At burst damage maybe, but overall? Dont think so. WB can really win the game for you by attrition, even after BD are all dead.
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Hermes
Famous Hero
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posted May 16, 2013 04:32 PM |
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Better at what? At burst damage maybe, but overall? Dont think so. WB can really win the game for you by attrition, even after BD are all dead.
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted May 17, 2013 07:37 AM |
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We should test this with some proper duel matches!
Still, I also think HA is better compared to WB...
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Hermes
Famous Hero
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posted May 18, 2013 02:34 PM |
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Now, after playing lots of Duels as Dungeon might and magic:
1. Might relies too much on Chakhram Dancers who are glass canons. If you do decide to park your army and turtle, they wont save you and you will get annihilated.
2. Might: Soul Mark is underpowered in its current state. Make it +50% dark damage till the end of a combat.
3. Find weakness is underpowered, -15 defense only lasts a turn or two.
4. Trickster is pretty good, but the initiative bonus is too small.
5. Distraction is good, but being only 2 point structure it is not viable against large units, plus still does not help against turtling marksmen.
6. Might: Tears is a better class. With might blood its almost impossible to win against skilled player as your army dies as flies.
7. Magic: Blood is very good. IMO, only viable Dungeon class in Duels. Agony + shadow implosion.
8. In above, only case when I CAN NEVER WIN is against skilled Haven might. Celestial immunity is over the top imo, plus Glories blindness is still bugged.
9. Magic:Fog Veil is underpowered, should last longer or whole battle as Acid spell.
10. Magic: Stalking shade is underpowered. Should either have some attack, or if go fully inline with tears, make adjacent creatures unable to attack at all, -30% damage is too measly.
11. Minos are weak. Their damage is pitiful, as is their movement and bonuses.
12. Scorpicores are good, small buff to Might defense would help however.
And my main complaint:
INVISIBLE STACKS ATTACKING WHEN SOMEONE GET CLOSE SHOULD NOT INCUR RETALIATION. With counterstike 3, its just too sad to watch my Shades suicide in front of Kirins.
Please prove me wrong on the above points.
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NamelessOrder
Famous Hero
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posted May 18, 2013 05:06 PM |
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i'll try to refer to ur findings which i agree with, most of them.
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3. Find weakness is underpowered, -15 defense only lasts a turn or two.
agreed
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4. Trickster is pretty good, but the initiative bonus is too small.
can you write what is Tricker's basic bonus? i don't remember it and i don't have access to SoD right now.
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5. Distraction is good, but being only 2 point structure it is not viable against large units, plus still does not help against turtling marksmen.
i don't know, i find it pretty weak with only 2 points but its good in the endgame
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6. Might: Tears is a better class. With might blood its almost impossible to win against skilled player as your army dies as flies.
totally agree + mass weakness and mass ice armor
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7. Magic: Blood is very good. IMO, only viable Dungeon class in Duels. Agony + shadow implosion.
agony is OP and this is a major problem. I didn't realized it b/c im playing mostly haven (with mass dispel always) but sometimes when i play other factions mass agony hurts like hell.
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8. In above, only case when I CAN NEVER WIN is against skilled Haven might. Celestial immunity is over the top imo, plus Glories blindness is still bugged.
i'm surprised. I do consider Inferno might and Necro might stronger (at least in might vs might).
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11. Minos are weak. Their damage is pitiful, as is their movement and bonuses.
i disagree. Mino's dmg is good (check comparison of elites on wiki) but the numbers are not. Again there should be 64 Minos (b/c the weekly growth should be 5 not 4).
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12. Scorpicores are good, small buff to Might defense would help however.
i disagree. They are already one of the best elite units but small buff wont change anything so... yeah
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INVISIBLE STACKS ATTACKING WHEN SOMEONE GET CLOSE SHOULD NOT INCUR RETALIATION. With counterstike 3, its just too sad to watch my Shades suicide in front of Kirins.
i wrote about it previously and i totally agree!
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Uplay: ZergRusher | H6: Thoughts on duels | DoC: Cassa
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Hermes
Famous Hero
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posted May 18, 2013 05:27 PM |
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can you write what is Tricker's basic bonus? i don't remember it and i don't have access to SoD right now.
Its something measly, +2 movement and +10 initiative. But the problem is, downed stack only gets us in the end of a turn.
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i don't know, i find it pretty weak with only 2 points but its good in the endgame
I tried to make Marksmen attack them, but the range is just a bit too short. Still good to have an alternative to Taunt i guess, but 3 structure point would be much better, it is an ultimate.
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totally agree + mass weakness and mass ice armor
I suggest improving blood skills overall(inner fire, life drain may be?)
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agony is OP and this is a major problem. I didn't realized it b/c im playing mostly haven (with mass dispel always) but sometimes when i play other factions mass agony hurts like hell.
its too easy to counter. Purity, mass dispel.. Especially if you turtle.
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i'm surprised. I do consider Inferno might and Necro might stronger (at least in might vs might).
Yeah, it other match ups I find Inferno and Stronghold might very strong.
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i disagree. Mino's dmg is good (check comparison of elites on wiki) but the numbers are not. Again there should be 64 Minos (b/c the weekly growth should be 5 not 4).
May be their numbers in a duel are low, riight. They just dont do any serious damage in a duels. Plus their initiative and movements are very low.
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i wrote about it previously and i totally agree!
Change it Ubi!!  It totally defeats the purpose of the racial(which is used often to avoid damage)
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NamelessOrder
Famous Hero
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posted May 19, 2013 09:16 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
can you write what is Tricker's basic bonus? i don't remember it and i don't have access to SoD right now.
Its something measly, +2 movement and +10 initiative. But the problem is, downed stack only gets us in the end of a turn.
What? who and when gets +2 movement and +10 ini???
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Uplay: ZergRusher | H6: Thoughts on duels | DoC: Cassa
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted May 19, 2013 10:54 AM |
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NamelessOrder
Famous Hero
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posted May 22, 2013 12:42 PM |
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SHORT DUEL GUIDE: DUNGEON MIGHT VS HAVEN MIGHT
Small disclaimer: i don't claim to perfect any race especially dungeon, but i consider myself a rather good haven might player
Introduction: I've written that dungeon is weak. But i'd like to revert this statement. My first impression was based on encounters with random people playing dungeon and every duel was a slaughter (eyzonhim was a notable exception).
Anyway i decided to play on hot seats vs myself to determine how to play dungeon vs haven. I hope it can be helpful to you as well.
Hero's abilities:
type: Tears might
army: magic (Dungeon 2)
hero's specialization: abysses dweller
abilities:
defense III, attack III,
reinforcement 1, ambush, tactics II
pressed attack, heroic charge
counterstrike I, toughness III, resilience, cleave, giant slayer
magic defence II, magic power II, dispel
dark magic II, purge
ice armor mass, blizzard
NOTES: i notice that tactics II doesn't give you much, also in some battles you wont use purge and dispel with puppeteers special ability is enough so one might think of changing abilities. Also eyes almost never survive the 2cd turn to shoot 3rd time but i still think that abysses dweller is worth it.
Haven would choose tears of course, it's much better.
Positioning
just look at the picture:
edit: Please switch the position of dragons and manticores (the dragons should be in the position of manticores and maniticores in the position of dragons, so dragons can reach crusaders after waiting, otherwise, crusaders could hide in the corner, with the new position they would prolly defend).
Also if you for any reasons suspect that your opponent will position himself in the bottom and not in the upper corner, you may consider putting minotaurs behind so glories cannot reach them after blizzard.
the chakram dancers determine the position of the troops. The Dun player has to put them in the up corner and the haven player should counter the area of effect dmg by putting haven army in the upper corner as well (if its not obvious fot you, you should check how chakram dancers' attack work)
start of the combat
Dun player will start by casting blizzard and wait followed by glories. Cast blizzard immediately. This not only deals a lot of dmg but also prevents glories from doing anything so the haven player will wait with glories and then you wait with puppeteers and dragons.
Your spellbook
Glories cannot reach:
Haven main aim is to kill off your eyes so he should wait with archers (b/c eyes have spirit form) and put pressed attack on archers and target eyes with them, vestals and griffins. Since angels won't target any of your troops they will prolly heal archers and give them +10 ini and +30 morale. There is no reason for haven to charge since they can simply out-shoot and out-heal you from distance.
Puppeteers will have a move before glories and then you will simply take control of glories (with puppeteers special ability) and you will have 2 moves with them. With the first, position them in a place where you can simply kill them off. With your 2cd move of glories, blind griffins or crusaders (i recommend crusaders). After the blinding use puppeteers. dragons and Minotaurs to kill the stack of 36-38 glories. In the previous place of glories, in the upper right corner, you can put dungeon ultimate: distraction (or whatever it's called) or simply move shades into the place to block archers.
Battle
I cannot predict the whole battle but i think this beginning is the best from what i've seen.
Here is the situation in the middle of the 2cd turn (haven used dispel to unblind th crusaders and removed dragons' DoT):
middle of 3rd turn
Endgame:
Dungeon vs Immortals xD:
Victory:
Afterthoughts:
- I've made a couple of mistakes as haven so i'm not claiming that you can simply win in this matchup
- You have to protect puppeteers their dmg is really essential
- i had some very lucky morale with eyes, puppeteers and dragons
- you cannot dispel pressed attack on dragons - this is so OP in the endgame
- start killing angels after you've finished other units
hope it's helpful
Acknowledgement:
- i've seen eyesonhim doing something similar - he started with mass haste and took control of my glories to put them in a position where he could easily kill them off. somebody who plays dungeon more should check which variation is better
Other strategies that i've encountered:
- Starting with mass despair - this is a bad idea b/c despair won't work on angels, glories will dispel 3 units next turn so you are left with only griffins, glories and crusaders with despair. There is also a high chance that haven player has burning determination which dispels despair and protects from despair (in other words burning determination dispels despair but despair doesn't work on creatures with burning determination).
Important bug - version: 2.1.0
I quote after sym:
Quote:
If the black dragons come next to the Griffins, triggering the "Terrifying Presence", then the Griffins use "Diving Attack", at the very end of the turn, the game Crashes.
And this makes the matchup unplayable b/c most of the games end up crashing ;(
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Uplay: ZergRusher | H6: Thoughts on duels | DoC: Cassa
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