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| Thread: Is HeroesVI really inactive like it seems? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted September 08, 2013 07:12 PM |
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KingImp said:
For me what killed it is the nearly impossible to understand map editor.
I can overlook some things, but when I can't make my own maps for my own enjoyment, I'm stuck having to play what I feel are poorly designed maps.
Since, I read this, I thought you might like to hear my story about the H6 Editor.
As you know, Cepheus was here at HC and on-board in the beginning with the "new" H6 Editor. At that time I was working with him (Mapmaking) on the final LotA Campaign. One day he was all-excited about what he had been told about the new Editor. Listening to him, I was beside myself because like most here, I adored the "TOOLS" of H3 Editor. (Sorry H4-fans,...don't know about it but I've been told it's very good too)
As time went on, he was still very excited and I was probably even more excited then he was, because I'm disabled and Map-Making is an escape for me. Anyway, one day he gets a Demo or test-version and offers me a chance to test-drive the thing.
I was absolutely shocked but not by my own inspection, just by the change in Cepheus. He was still a Rep and he said not a word against the Editor or UBI but it was the total change in the tone of his conversations with me that threw me. After reading his excitement was clearly all-gone, then I began to see what I would describe as "damage-control" because from then on he sounded like a salesman that had no confidence in the product he was selling.
After seeing Cepheus' deflation, I did not bother to test the H6 editor. What point would that have made?, since we at HC had talked ourselves blue about what to avoid and what to create in the new Editor. "For me", a new Editor was some sort of a H3 and H5 blend with even more user-friendly features; like Modding. <imo> After the obvious editor-after-thought of H5; all of the Community-efforts towards the "new" editor was nothing more than new-game....buzzzzz.
I'm still working in H5 and there is still work going on behind the scenes. I'm hopeful that parts of our previous lists might see daylight soon. But I doubt UBI will be the one to go there. I think they are all about on-line money and NOT HoMM depth and longevity.
Lastly, if H6 is dead, it is because UBI still does not understand what they bought when they purchased HoMM. NO, not yet.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 08, 2013 08:42 PM |
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Cepheus was pretty much like you said  He started getting more and more disappointed that in the end he wanted to be disassociated from the project. I still held some hope that Limbic would manage to do something. It was that intermediate period where Black Hole vanished and Limbic appeared, not yet knowing the extend to which they could make changes. It was an exciting period with testing and actual communication but things started coming to the surface, bad news for the future. All that could be done was to tweak existing formulas as messing with the code was proven risky and not really worth investing into. I am grateful for what the team managed to do in the following months and I had a lot of fun with the duel tourneys but that was as far as things could go. An addon without gameplay evolution can only stretch a game's life so far. It is funny because that had been discussed before, how we wanted the addon to further expand on the game instead of just add a faction and a few neutrals and everyone agreed on the matter. But the best laid plans of mice and men often go awry..
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted September 08, 2013 11:10 PM |
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Elvin said:
Cepheus was pretty much like you said He started getting more and more disappointed that in the end he wanted to be disassociated from the project.... But the best laid plans of mice and men often go awry..
I miss his "fire" I'm sure you do too my friend.
Now, like always in hind-sight, all we can do is the...what if? <imo> this was/is not a "too-bad" it's all been a serious setback to the future of this game.
Now I'm holding out for Q to deliver the real-goods that 6 should have brought to the greater-Community...with his next A.I. 
It's just a game and all of that but for me, of all the games HoMM has been something very special. Good grief, atm the future of this game for me rests with one unpaid programmer!
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zaio-baio
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted September 09, 2013 12:10 PM |
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h6 is bigger disappointment then h4, so dont expect too much of it.
What happens with Q's project btw? Still in development or he dropped it ?
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted September 10, 2013 08:09 AM |
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The positives from H6 were the graphics and animations....but yes, agree with Elvin's points above (mostly the flat skill system).
I always thought H5 had a deep skill system with certain abilities requiring other skills/abilities....
@Markkur: I loved the LOTA campaigns of H5! Pity book 3 and 4 never got completed!
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted September 10, 2013 09:35 AM |
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Edited by markkur at 09:38, 10 Sep 2013.
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zaio-baio said:
What happens with Q's project btw? Still in development or he dropped it ?
He's still working on it. There are also other efforts but when he will release it I don't know. Btw, it had been about 2 years since I played a game with the original H5 A.I and I was  to see how bad it is, after playing "J"; even in its unfinished state.
I think UBI biggest blunder was not giving Q the reins for the A.I. of H6. If they had given it to him, the H6 code-debacle, where nothing can be done backwards...would never have happened.
@DoubleDeck
Quote:
I loved the LOTA campaigns of H5! Pity book 3 and 4 never got completed!
You mean the Campaign correct? Marzhin did write book 4 and made it available. Anyway, I was disappointed as was a couple of others that were still trying to finish the thing; we just could not get a scripter, even though a couple of us had done all the maps.
shh..it happens. 
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted September 10, 2013 12:41 PM |
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I refer to the actual site:
http://lota.celestialheavens.com/
Only book 1 and 2 were made. Book 3 and 4 weren't completed....
I loved 1 and 2, best campaigns where you had to really think off your feet...
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted September 10, 2013 02:00 PM |
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DoubleDeck said:
I refer to the actual site:
http://lota.celestialheavens.com/
Only book 1 and 2 were made. Book 3 and 4 weren't completed....
I loved 1 and 2, best campaigns where you had to really think off your feet...
Marzhin released the artwork & texts of the 4th book here.
There's also a link with the four books in kalah post, don't miss it 
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted September 10, 2013 03:53 PM |
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Okay, sorry I actually meant the campaigns for book 3 and 4 are not available (i.e. the H5 maps)
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted September 10, 2013 05:59 PM |
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DoubleDeck said:
Okay, sorry I actually meant the campaigns for book 3 and 4 are not available (i.e. the H5 maps)
Read carefully last Marzhin sentence:
Marzhin said:
Maybe some day the actual campaign will be completed and you'll be able to play this story, not simply read it. Let's not give up hope
I doubt the maps will be done in the next few years, but it the long run who knows how it will end.
(so no, no maps/campaigns to download to my knowledge)
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted September 10, 2013 08:36 PM |
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Zenithale (both books)and myself (only some Book 4 Maps) made the maps for the final campaign (I still have mine) the problem was there was not a scripter left to do the work after Marzhin got wrapped-up in H6 and had to bow-out.
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evilsausage
Hired Hero
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posted September 24, 2013 11:34 PM |
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Im a hugh fan of the heroes series and first played Homm 2 1996.
Heroes 6 however i never really fell for and I felt it didn't offer much except for pretty good graphics.
Im totally not against changes, but only if they are good and fit with the HoMM franchise. Heroes 6 really really mega failed at that and worst of all it felt like the adventure was lost. (p.s im judging the game from the experiance i had when H6 just came out. No idea how it is today)
Changes for the sake of balance. The developers mentioned Starcraft when they talked about Heroes gameplay! BLASPHEMY!
But yes its not bad with balance but it was done in a bad way which made the game dull.
1. Only one rare resource. The whole search for mines and resource scavaging just got less complicated but also more boring.
2. New skilltree was a mess. I guess the randomness in the old levling system didn't fit with the new competative thing they where going for.
3. 3 tiers of units, I liked that more low level units got useful but overall i prefere the old system. Its silly when goblins are about equal to a succubus. Later level units felt weak and creeping got boring.
4. Overall many boring hero skills and unit abilities. For example loved the hellfire ability inferno had in H5 where they had a chance to do a nice extra dmg. Thats so much cooler then having a small % extra dmg as fire. Lots of abilites on heroes and units just gave small % of stat boosts. Boooring!
5. Boring heroes to pick from and I never understood why you blood/tears had to be locked to the starting hero(maybe it wasn't and i was just a noob).
6.Very little content. few maps, very few buildings to visit on the map, few factions.
H5 suffered a bit from the same problem at start, but it made up for it because it introduced a fresh new world in 3d, racial abilites, lots of unit abilites, awsome townscreens in 3d Etc.
H6 however don't introduce that much and in many ways feels slimmed down. Which makes it kinda pointless to play.
I just think the developers completly missed what made the Heroes games good. Most people here are not intested in a E-sport HoMM game. They should instead had focused on making the game fun to play.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted September 24, 2013 11:42 PM |
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evilsausage said:
5. Boring heroes to pick from and I never understood why you blood/tears had to be locked to the starting hero(maybe it wasn't and i was just a noob).
It was locked I think.
evilsausage said:
I just think the developers completly missed what made the Heroes games good. Most people here are not intested in a E-sport HoMM game. They should instead had focused on making the game fun to play.
I agree so much
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hippox89
Famous Hero
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posted September 25, 2013 03:30 AM |
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Edited by hippox89 at 03:42, 25 Sep 2013.
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NamelessOrder said:
On the sidenote: it's kinda funny that so many of you mentioned civ5 as an example while a lot players of Civ5 want the return of "true" turns in MP. Here's an example: out of 56 voters in a poll, 33 wants turns in MP, 16 SIM and 7 had no preference (LINK). Apparently it is not easy to implement SIM turns.
Both SIM and turn based makes a lot of sense depending on the situation. They both have virtues. A mix of SIM and turn based needs to be explored more in games. SIM is great for speeding the game up in the start of the game, but turn based is better for the mid-late game (imo). I am not that surprise that more people (in that pool) prefer turn based. Of course now Civi V has both, but not a mixed mode (yet). And that 'Hellogoodbye123' in that thread is so dumb it hurts.
Anyhow, it's obvious that Obi targeted a very young audience with HMM6. It's a buy and forget game. It doesn't even have LAN, so MP is doomed to die out in time. Bad investment. People are not thinking long term nowadays.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 25, 2013 09:48 AM |
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Edited by xerox at 09:48, 25 Sep 2013.
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Isn't it kinda hilarious how they tried to turn into more of an e-sport yet totally failed implementing features - sim turns, matchmaking, good duels (like Elvin's map) - that make people actually want to play multiplayer?
If there is a next Heroes, which I sadly doubt, then I hope they will focus n the single-player with RNG, modding and mapping. They're essential for the game's long turn survival.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted September 25, 2013 10:12 AM |
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What it really frightens me - if H6 sold quite well been a "cheap game" to make, I fear they may stick to a similar "route" for H7, instead on focusing on what it makes game life longer (as mentioned above)
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evilsausage
Hired Hero
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posted September 25, 2013 03:09 PM |
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The HoMM 7 needs a good leader that really cares and knows what the franchise needs. I think most people don't care that much for the comming Heroes as a online game. Especially if it doesn't add anything intressting.
I want a game with a good looking art design, a ton of content and a gameplay which is a improved version of H3 and H5. Most importantly I want it to captivate me and make exploring the map fun, something H6 failed at.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted September 25, 2013 03:30 PM |
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evilsausage said:
The HoMM 7 needs a good leader that really cares and knows what the franchise needs.
HoMM 7 needs good backers as well.
AFAIK, M&MH:6 had fairly low priority compared to some of the more popular Ubisoft franchises.
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evilsausage
Hired Hero
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posted September 25, 2013 06:16 PM |
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Avirosb said:
evilsausage said:
The HoMM 7 needs a good leader that really cares and knows what the franchise needs.
HoMM 7 needs good backers as well.
AFAIK, M&MH:6 had fairly low priority compared to some of the more popular Ubisoft franchises.
Yes turnbased games has a low priority because they usually don't please the big crowd. I guess thats why they went towards more competative gameplay.
Ubisoft better shape up or the will run the HoMM franchise to the ground. they need to care about their product and not just make changes because it might please the mainstream crowd.
But even with a mediocre budget could be enough to make great HoMM game, aslong as they have clue of what makes a good Heroes game.
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted September 25, 2013 09:44 PM |
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evilsausage said:
Most importantly I want it to captivate me and make exploring the map fun, something H6 failed at.
H6 had good graphics and animations, so I thought exploring the map was cool, it was just the monotonous skill system that made battles really boring...where you used the same skill over and over (like pressed attack)...
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