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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted October 20, 2015 12:32 PM |
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Galaad said:
...
gomaki said:
insert whatever # you don't like here
@ gomaki:
gomaki said:
To that end what I would like to see is a thread
Done
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Let's play poker game, lich-style!
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted October 20, 2015 12:53 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
On the contrary, their opinions are DOUBLY less viable because 1) they made an unsound buying decision, so they have a self-interest to justify their decision by rating the game better than it is (which is an effect you can see when you read user-ratings like this one, giving 8/10, when it should be less based on what you read; 2) they are also FANS who love the title; fans tend to rate a game either way too positive or way too negative; too positive, when the impression is "favorable", and too negative, when the impression is unfavorable and both can hinge on small details...
Well, you have a point, that I don't dare to deny. But:
1) Most people don't even realize that they have such a self-interest. Most people don't even realize that they made an unsound buying decision. On the contrary, buying the game they've waited for so long at the release seems kine a good choice for them. Or, if they're the die-hard fans, they even feel obliged to do that. The reason for buying it at the release varies for different player categories, it may even be "wow, what a fancy game, let's buy it, I have the money afterall".
2) There I'm gonna agree, but in general fans of this category just say "the game sucks  " or "IT'S A MASTERPIECE!!!111"
Fans which are capable of elaborating their points are very probably the people who can make objective conclusions even if they like/dislike the game/features.
Now, on the contrary, what can those who didn't try (ok, let's not use the word "didn't buy" if you know what I mean) say about the game and it's features that would matter for the devs? In the best case scenario, they followed SC (like Gal, Verriker etc) and this OpenDev crap. Even still, SC is full of positive/negative one-liners. Making an opinion based on others' opinion rarely is a wise choice, I think you know this.
So either they end up praising the game or hating the game. The minority will try to find middle ground between +/- comments. And they have no personal idea of how the game really looks like. Maybe, for example, haters are exaggerating things and the game doesn't look so terrible as they say (or vice-versa).
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Let's play poker game, lich-style!
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 20, 2015 01:51 PM |
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The people who pre-order or buy immediately are as out of the equation as the haters who won't buy, no matter what.
What counts are those who'd have an interest, but are unsure, either because they don't really know whether the game will really suit them or because they don't want so many bugs or the game feels too expensive.
So basically the aim has to be to patch the game within 3 months (when the game will still be fully-priced) to a satisfactory state, getting those to buy who want a stable and as bug-free a game as possible.
A demo - or the cheaper cousin: a series of let's plays will also tell the undecided more about gameplay.
As a sidenote, I do get the game since I'm responsible for German loca, I also have it installed, and I have clocked an unimpressive 4 hours so far. I find the game extremely boring on big and even medium maps, since there is just no action (which has a lot to do with pace), I think that the game is extremely unbalanced in an unfixable way, and lastly hero development (skills and magic) is very unsatisfactory; I also don't see a good reason for the generic feel everything based around creatures has. It's all the same, more or less , it doesn't feel individual.
With H7 having the same lineup as HoMM 2; if you compare the creatures there, the town building and the creature stats, even without a racial skill, while everything is rather basic the feel is a completely different one.
Bottom line is - for me - that the game simply failed its target: when I play a new game I don't want to look back and say, man, it felt better when I played the other one. Instead, you should say, when I play this game I have no interest in playing another (Heroes) game for the next couple of weeks and ideally months to come.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 20, 2015 03:55 PM |
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gomaki
Shaper of Lore
Community Manager, Limbic Ent.
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posted October 20, 2015 03:57 PM |
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1.2.1 live. Notes up on what it's done soon.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 20, 2015 03:59 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 16:03, 20 Oct 2015.
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Antalyan
Promising
Supreme Hero
H7 Forever
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posted October 20, 2015 04:35 PM |
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Edited by Antalyan at 17:08, 20 Oct 2015.
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No top 5 personal changes as gomoki asked for?
Come on, guys, we have an opportunity to change something!
(Hopefully I will not be disappointed but as I hear it from Limbic official manager, I belive it more than from Ubi).
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LordFoxton
Hired Hero
Thin is the wall of illusion
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posted October 20, 2015 04:37 PM |
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Antalyan said:
No top 5 personal changes as gomoki asked for?
Come on, guys, we have an opportunity to change something!
(Hopefully I will not be disappointed but as I hear it from Limbic official manager, I belive it more than from Ubi).
They're in a thread linked at the top of the page.
Or here: http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=41853
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Antalyan
Promising
Supreme Hero
H7 Forever
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posted October 20, 2015 05:10 PM |
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Edited by Antalyan at 17:10, 20 Oct 2015.
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LordFoxton said:
Antalyan said:
No top 5 personal changes as gomoki asked for?
Come on, guys, we have an opportunity to change something!
(Hopefully I will not be disappointed but as I hear it from Limbic official manager, I belive it more than from Ubi).
They're in a thread linked at the top of the page.
Or here: http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=41853
Oh thanks a lot, I have not noticed 
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted October 20, 2015 05:37 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 17:55, 20 Oct 2015.
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Sandro400 said:
gomaki said:
insert whatever # you don't like here
??
Hating Heroes and strongly disagreeing with the work from the MMH7 Team are two very, very different things my friend.
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted October 20, 2015 07:01 PM |
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Galaad said:
??
Hating Heroes and strongly disagreeing with the work from the MMH7 Team are two very, very different things my friend.
*sigh*
Gal, there're guys hating Heroes. Yeah, they're rare and mostly they're just trolls, but whatever. Now, "hate Heroes (insert whatever # you like)" means that you can say "hate Erwan", "hate H7" - basically, it's the formula of "hate X" where X is determined case by case.
It's not so hard really. Shall we end this misunderstanding?
@ JJ
Again, I agree with your above statement, and again, it's true in terms of marketing, yeah.
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frostymuaddib
Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
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posted October 20, 2015 07:24 PM |
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*GenyaArikado uses power of GIF*
*...but it failed!*
@JJ
You perfectly described my experience with MMH7 Beta. It was boring, and I ended up playing it for two hour tops.
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Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
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posted October 20, 2015 08:12 PM |
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You got to 2 hours! You are brave.
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"Don't resist the force. Redirect it. Water over rock."-blizzardboy
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3lion
Known Hero
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posted October 21, 2015 02:03 AM |
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Edited by 3lion at 02:04, 21 Oct 2015.
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Brukernavn said:
I'm not going to include things that don't work as they should (bugs etc.) as that is a given.
1) Skillwheel redesign
- Random
- Complex
- Interdependent requirements
- No ability requirements to advance in rank
- Add unique abilities for different factions
- No level cap
2) Magic system redesign
- Fewer magic schools
- More spells
- More differentiated schools (now they all play the same)
3) Visuals redesign
- More intuitive and coherent UI
- Town screens
- Colour and atmosphere
- Creature scaling
4) AI redesign
- Smarter
- Faster
- Does not cheat
5) Add more content (but only after you've fixed the four above!)
- More artefacts
- More adventure map buildings
- Different hero specialisations
- New neutrals
etc.
BONUS: Scrap Ashan and redesign factions and creature line-ups
Yeah, I know this "aint gonna happen"...
This is not a fix/change list at all. You beter call it "My wish list for heroes 8"
Do you people even understand, that major changing of the skillwheel and magic system means complete redesign of the entire game? There is a suggestion for the Warfare skill in the neighboring thread. Read it. That's what could be implemented, not your "Magic System Redesign". List like this doesn't help. "Complex skillwheel"... What does it even mean for Chris sake?
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 21, 2015 02:26 AM |
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malax83
Famous Hero
Game ranger, HotA Player
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posted October 21, 2015 10:27 AM |
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But the other guy has a point too,
- fewer magic schools : it means to me, a redesign of AK (due to wisdom failure). They could regroup the schools for example with an elementalist school, a divine school and the prime school.
- no ability requirement to advance in a rank
- more adventure map buildings
I would appreciate a realistic list but in a desperate case, there are only desperate measures.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 21, 2015 10:55 AM |
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I think, it's a little more difficult than that.
I'd say that the game has been "balanced" for campaigns which means, there is no balance, other than the fact that players can win the campaigns (and are supposed to be able to).
Every bigger change may simply sink a campaign map. Keep in mind that campaign maps are very specific (hero and skill wheel) - playing the same map with a different skill wheel may produce adverse results.
So a very basic flaw of the game is, that there were the camapigns and then there was balance, and not there was a balance and then campaigns were based on that.
Without a semblance of balance, however, it doesn't make sense to even start playing MP.
That's an even more pronounced problem with "re-designs". For example, the pace problem. The relation between hero movement, map size and map spacing is wrong. The way it is, you can build the most important stuff in a town in 4 weeks. On a bigger, complex map you won't get far in that amount of time. If you got less XP for battles and need more resources for buildings this would simply delay things, making everything more boring, so the only real option is to increase hero movement (and Exploration skill: having a basic 30 MPs and getting 3 in addition for each Exploration level wouldn't be that wrong). HOWEVER: what would that do with campaign maps?
So the game is in an awkward place at this point, imo.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted October 21, 2015 11:18 AM |
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Edited by Elvin at 11:28, 21 Oct 2015.
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Hero movement and town building really should pick up the pace... Otherwise we'll be needing some very specialized mapmaking to cover the shortcomings and enjoy the game 
I don't care much about the campaigns, they can keep a separate movement there as far as I'm concerned. It's the custom maps that will keep the players in the game and they should be the focus of the gameplay. That much should be obvious.
EDIT:
And to be honest, I don't see a problem if the campaign becomes easier. I've played half the campaigns and I have not felt any challenge, they seem more focused on the story and showing off stuff. The AI doesn't even bother you, so much is script-based  The only times I have felt the heat is against enemy heroes that start with huge armies which you are supposed to avoid. But worst case scenario, one of your heroes gets attacked while scouting and you have to reload.. I find it annoying that you cannot feel a faction's strengths and weaknesses against a passive AI, it should at least try to challenge you. But even so it's pretty terrible to do that atm. It gets on my nerves watching allied AI waste its time wandering around aimlessly while ignoring key locations/pickups.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 21, 2015 11:33 AM |
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That's absolutely correct, but you can't make two different games.
There is a comperable problem with AoW3 (although on a much more mature level): there are 3 different playing modes:
1) Single Play (manual combat all the time against AI)
2) MP (is played autocombat against the AI and manual pvp due to time limits)
3) PBEM (manual combat against AI, autocombat pvp and also when the AI attacks you)
Now, autocombat sees the AI at the helm, and with difficult to-handle, but potentially very effective units the AI has its problems which means that in some cases AI produces vastly different results than players.
This ends with compromises since there cannot be 2 different games.
There are a lit of people to play campaigns as a quasi-tutorial for a faction; if things play differently in campaigns than in skirmish mode, people won't understand that.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted October 21, 2015 11:39 AM |
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Still better than gimping the maps that keep people in the game..
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
