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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: ~ Heroes 7 - Discussion thread ~
Thread: ~ Heroes 7 - Discussion thread ~ This MEGA THREAD is 1588 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 320 640 960 1280 ... 1584 1585 1586 1587 1588 · «PREV / NEXT»
Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted December 20, 2016 01:36 AM

I didn't give the QP for being 100% accurate, I gave it for creativity.

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Galaad
Galaad


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Enrothian Conservative Party
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posted December 20, 2016 01:37 AM

I know.
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Datapack
Datapack


Famous Hero
HC SUPPORTER
posted December 20, 2016 01:54 AM

Galaad said:

BTW if there is a source about Ubisoft trying to hire him and him saying no I'd be thankful for a link

Here you go.

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Galaad
Galaad


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posted December 20, 2016 02:02 AM

Datapack said:

Here you go.


Yeah well pretty much what I was saying, "I wanted to take some time off" doesn't have a thousand meanings, thanks for link.
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yogi
yogi


Promising
Famous Hero
of picnics
posted December 20, 2016 02:10 AM

Datapack said:

Here you go.


understandable burn-out imo
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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 20, 2016 02:42 AM
Edited by Stevie at 10:15, 20 Dec 2016.

Galaad said:
Getting a QP for blaming JVC? Sure feels unworthy, no matter how well-written.

BTW if there is a source about Ubisoft trying to hire him and him saying no I'd be thankful for a link, otherwise it's fantasy. And even if it really was the case, there could be a thousand of legitimate reasons, like depression, moving on to something else, Ubisoft's contract terms being too awful to accept, etc.

There is not only no point here but it's also completely off, imo.


cheers Galaad mate, thank you for your appreciative words lol

there is certainly a point to be taken behind all the poetry and rest assured I am no mongrel to dabble in historical inaccuracies to make it and paint a misleading picture thereof lol

I know there is a demand for selective memory and favoritism but I figured it was high time people took the red pill and experienced an alternative dimension of the things that transpired that I like to call reality lol

it is fine to be witty and funny in laying down a transmogrified version of historical events with unholy marriages between Trip and Erwan and get some kicks out of it, but lets not kid ourselves into attributing more credit to it than should be given to any other phantasmagoric interpretation, if anything an unholy marriage was more readily between Trip and JVC than it was between Trip and Erwan lol

and I also wanted to give you the link to a source myself but I see someone already went ahead of me, true enough it is very understandable that he was depressed and burned out but it ultimately doesn't dispel the fact that Ubisoft indeed approached him and got no for an answer so where exactly does the onus lie now lol? whatever reasons one might try to conjure up won't hold up to the fact that the final word in the separation between JVC and the Might and Magic universe was none other than his own lol

I know it might be disillusioning for some to see the fabled creator himself in another light than that of a saint surrounded by his aura of greatness, but let us put the hyperbole aside and remember that he was only human at least from time to time lol

if that is too much to ask then take it as poetic license from yours truly and be done with it lol
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Galaad
Galaad


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posted December 20, 2016 11:04 PM

IMHO It is unjust to reproach to JVC his decision of separating himself from his own creation.

Indeed, we have to:

1) Never forget what we owe him, meaning what we owe to the creator of three exceptional series of games (homm1-3) and, for some, homm4 as well.

2) Recognize to an artist the right to renew himself whenever he has the impression to have attained his limit in a certain direction, after a cycle close to a decade.

3) Understand the necessity that is his to sell at the best price his creation in order to give himself sufficient needs to set off again into a new direction.

4) See well that, when one is at the head of a project he has realized, one does not simply accept to become subordinate to a new boss on said project.

5) Examine if JVC could or not renew himself and if his capacity to create remained the same, I suggest an open-minded approach for Creature Quest just out from VCmobile entertainment he founded a couple of years back.

6) Do not impute him the deficiency of those who have succeeded him, from the moment he left it is no longer Heroes (even though h5 preserved the gameplay, it lost the atmosphere).

Any artist is better off preserving his will to create than badly aging by repeating himself. If the will is gone, if the sacred fire is gone, the result will fall short.

Those are the imperceptible rights of any artist and creator.

And it was Ubisoft's responsibility as the new owners to maintain the legacy and keep on providing awesome Heroes games, do not mix everything up.
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Stevie
Stevie


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posted December 22, 2016 02:38 AM
Edited by Stevie at 03:44, 22 Dec 2016.

Galaad mate old buddy old pal, where should I even start lol

unless you are throwing random lines out of the wild blue yonder I am inclined to believe you are insinuating I have reproached JVC for separating himself from the Might and Magic franchise, kindly direct me to where that happened with a quote if you don't mind otherwise it's fantasy lol note that purely relaying a state of fact does not equate blame and I am not about to add any disclaimer or appendage of the sort to clear things up for second or third language speakers when I mention JVC without taking a bow or paying homage lol

from a technical point of view no one owes anything to JVC other than the buck charged for his games, reciprocating his great work and love invested in the franchise with heartfelt appreciation is certainly a very good thing to do but not something you can demand of people to remember from a cardboard box moral high ground, that's just not how it works mate lol

you seem intent on inferring another meaning to JVC's refusal than the one which results from his own words without having to employ any needless mental gymnastics, as he audibly said he did not think he would work at games anymore so he did nothing for the next 9 months which betrays a lack of commitment, nowhere near readying himself for setting off into a new direction or renewing himself from an artist's block, that's all your fabrication based on unsubstantiated speculation which at a closer inspection comes at odds with what was actually said and done lol in fact JVC was right in the middle of something aka Heroes V whose assets were saved when the franchise got acquired by Ubisoft and were ready and waiting for him to make the transition and continue work except he said no and everything got scrapped lol

let's not make wild guesses on how likely it would have been for JVC to receive a position of leadership over his own franchise or put under Fabrice and Erwan instead had he accepted Ubisoft's offer, I see no reason to open that can of worms lol but it's not as if he had always been in full control of the franchise up until then, not if you take a gander at the minimal impact he had on Might & Magic IX and Heroes IV by the time he stood down from design duties to indulge in his racing passion while the rest of the NWC employees were doing overtime in the company sweatshops to compensate for the lack of direction lol working for Yves Guillemot instead of Trip Hawkins would have been exchanging one devil for another at worst and having a cunning commercial shark ruling a multinational financial success as your employer at best lol

initially when JVC accepted Trip's offer he was enticed by the idea of developing the first Might and Magic MMO so he took the trade just to get access to the engine and online resources, except that the project never even got off because of 3DO's impeccably sound business models lol and he could have seen Ubisoft as a new shot at his dream more so when they were testing the waters that very same year with the Shadowbane release on their Arcane engine, add to that how that JVC was setting up "mean and lean" for when 3DO would go under to see that he was determined to move on, the fact that he turned down the invitation from a company which now held the rights to Might and Magic, the available technology and the resources to propel his ambitions leaves me utterly dumbfounded lol

no one is imputing the deficiency of others nor wrongfully assigning blame, the only point made here is that everything was aligned for him to make a difference in the development that followed and he refused lol I find it mildly amusing how you go on to say that from the moment he left it was no longer Heroes, so since he left on his own accord doesn't that mean he abandoned the franchise to its death lol? it's in your own words mate, and some paragraphs later you say that it was Ubisoft's responsibility to maintain the legacy and provide awesome Heroes games, but haven't you already discarded that possibility from happening just moments ago lol?

oh and to top things off - and I know you will love this one to bits lol - before the bankruptcy episode Ubisoft went with an offer to Trip's office and was ready to pay top dollar for NWC's release and addition as their own subsidiary dev and with them the rights to Might and Magic lol so how much credit do you give Ubisoft for going to those extents to save NWC and be in the best interest of the Might and Magic franchise and receiving two no's in return that damned it all to hell lol? all I heard lately was moaning about how they did nothing to preserve the continuity and yet it turns out that they did pretty much everything they could lol

I'll leave you with some references in case you do not want to take my word for it lol

CH interview with JVC
JVC said:
(Full-time) Yeah, that's my plan. I mean, I'm looking forward to getting back into it full-time and really making it... It sounds like... I feel like I owe it to the fans, to bring back Heroes the way it was, as opposed to what it kind of evolved into.


CH interview with Tim Lang
Tim Lang said:
There's no question that Ubi really wanted the Might and Magic license for a long time. During the H4 and MM9 development, they came down and made an offer to 3DO for NWC. Trip Hawkins declined, hoping for more money, and of course, went bust. I am still a little amused that in the end Ubi ended up with the MM licenses. As far as their ability to deliver great games, it all depends on their commitment to the series'. Are they going to deliver more games like Crusaders and Warriors that just cashed in on the recognizable name? Or will they actually try to make something that we former NWCers would be proud of? I don't know. I hope so.

Tim Lang said:
I think there's two reasons why Might and Magic took such a drastic downturn. First and foremost 3DO seemed intent on driving every single intellectual property they owned into the ground. We got shorter and shorter schedules, and less and less financial support from them. In MM9's case, a lot of the people we were depending on to finish the game were tied up with finishing Legends. Since that thing just stayed around and lingered in the depths of not-being-doneness it really pushed MM9 onto a tighter schedule. Secondly, I'm pretty sure JVC was burned out, disillusioned and just plain didn't like coming to work anymore. Most of us rarely saw him around the office, and when we did see him, he usually told us that we were doing things wrong much too late for us to fix them. He's made no bones about disliking MM9. I think that if he had taken a more proactive role in its development, things might have turned out better. As far as the reason why MM9 was considered the worst in the series, that's really because we delivered a game that was pre-alpha at best. It needed at least another 3 months, if not another 6 to get it to a playable level of quality. Knowing we didn't have much time, we cut a lot of corners, and left out features the fans liked, but would have been too time consuming to implement. It was a half done game, and it shows.

Tim Lang said:
I hate to point a finger at one person, because if one person really deserves it, it might be Trip Hawkins for driving NWC into the ground. There's absolutely no question that Jon was in absentia during most of MM9 and H4, and when he finally started paying attention to them, a lot of things were already too far gone. He came in right near the end of H4 and as I understand it changed a whole lot of things. Mostly for the better, I think, but that sort of late night meddling is sure to cause some resentment. As far as his comments in the interview, I thought they were a little inappropriate. He basically blamed the teams for the failures of the games. These were people who worked their butts off, working unpaid late nights and weekends for 80-90+ hour weeks while Jon was off racing cars and not showing up to work. I won't say that we were totally faultless, but when you've got someone with 20+ years in the industry, not having his support and guidance really hurts the projects.


CH interview with Christian Vanover
Christian Vanover said:
Honestly I felt the same way Jon did, but I think I can clarify the statement some. After so much close work on Heroes I-III, Heroes IV was the first time the game was out of Jon's direct control. I had also gone off to work on a different game, and as a result I missed all the Heroes III expansions and didn’t get to see Heroes IV until it was nearly done. With a different group of people, you undoubtedly get some different choices being made, and so I think that when Jon finally got to see the game it was completely different from what he would have created himself. Speaking for myself it was a strange feeling the first time I got to sit down and give it a spin.

Christian Vanover said:
The move to Solvang was more of a new beginning. I never got to confirm it, but I suspect that Jon was prepared for 3DO to close its doors, and wanted to be set up "lean and mean" for when that happened, so that New World could hopefully continue on as their own game studio. The atmosphere beforehand was mixed... those moving saw a fresh start, but there was a touch of sadness because there were others leaving.

Christian Vanover said:
Well Jon originally brokered the deal with 3DO because they were planning on using their existing online technology to develop Might and Magic Online. As often happened at 3DO, however, plans changed, and MMO was shelved before it ever really got off the ground. As for Jon being at NCSoft working on an MMORPG, I wouldn't call it irony... I would call it justice!


RPG Codex Retrospective Interview: Jon Van Caneghem on Might and Magic
Jon Van Caneghem said:
Initially the relationship was great, I was able to spend more time on development and 3DO handled many of the administrative issues that took up a lot of my time. In fact the first couple of years, we did some of our best work with Heroes II and Might and Magic VI.

Later, when 3DO started to have financial difficulties, the relationship became strained and things went downhill from there. I did try at the end to keep NWC alive, we had several offers to buy my division away from 3DO, but The Company did not want to sell off the pieces in the hope to sell the entire entity. Unfortunately that didn’t happen.

Jon Van Caneghem said:
Actually, one of the main reasons I sold to 3DO was to create online RPG’s. They had a game called Meridian 59 that inspired me. I was confident that the future of RPG’s was online multiplayer. Soon after the acquisition I started designing Might and Magic Online! This was well before any of the modern MMORPG’s came into being.

I had designs that at the time the “MUD” experts told me would never work, but I was confident I could create an online multiplayer RPG that had all the features and quality of standalone games that you could play continuously with other players around the world. Might and Magic online would have been the first of the modern MMORPGs! After about 9 months of development, 3DO decided that it was going to be too expensive to create and canceled it.


Retrohistories: Might and Magic

honestly it all comes together so tightly that there is no room for any other interpretations, everything is crystal clear at glance lol though personally I would rather recall the archives of time under more gratifying circumstances than to sort some petty differences over a qp lol at the very least it should be clear now who is the one mixing things up lol

Cheers Galaad mate and Merry Christmas lol
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yogi
yogi


Promising
Famous Hero
of picnics
posted December 22, 2016 08:47 AM

verriker hacked Stevie


Also, correction: Shadowbane was started by Wolfpack Studios, Ubisoft just bought it.
Tis one of the most brilliant games ever developed.
So epic that the players rebuilt it.




EVERYTHING revolves around player interaction, and because of this the world feels so alive. One, seamless, non-instanced world, for all players... it's a real "massively multi-player role-playing game"; and with over 20 professions, almost 50 disciplines, and like 100 player built cities full of dozens of guilds and nations, there's no end to the mixing and matching you can do to fulfill whatever creative way you can come up with to interact with all these folks. "Meh, perhaps I'll just roll up some healer character and offer blessings to the rune hunters and scouts on their way out of town(s), for a small fee of course. Or maybe I'll roll up some super powerful mage, and with the brunt end of a fireball convince a few dozen others that we should all work together to build up a private city of crafters on some remote corner of "Ice Island", to fund another, open, merchant city. Then we'll make some assassins and thieves to try and steal peoples' stuff as they come shopping, hah. Now we just need a good scout.."




Shadowbane IS the massive Might & Magic game that JVC never made.
Role-play heroes, explore massive world, command armies, cast spells, gather resources, build cities;
Check out the "stacks": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NU7t018zgdE
and the Races and Classes: http://morloch.shadowbaneemulator.com/index.php/Main_Page

Once upon a time a couple buddies and I ran a nation of 3 cities, that we designed, and which housed hundreds of real people.  One of my most memorable gaming experiences was successfully defending our capitol from a small army, just the three of us, due to superior planning, city design, and tactics.  First we built the walls of the city into a maze.  Then one of my buddies played a flying scout character and coordinated our defense, while I played a rogue and teleported around luring the attackers to dead ends within the maze, and my other friend played a wizard, blasting them from atop the walls.  There was at least 30 of em, the battle raged for over an hour.


http://www.magicbane.com/


...now I wanna play again

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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Flight of the Erwins
posted December 22, 2016 10:45 AM

are you OK Stevie lol
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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
HC SUPPORTER
posted December 22, 2016 01:19 PM

never felt better verriker mate thanks for inquiring lol

thank you yogi for adding your knowledge to the discussion
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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted December 22, 2016 01:22 PM

I think Verriker hacked Stevie's account. I think a -QP for both of them is in order.


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AlHazin
AlHazin


Famous Hero
The Erwin is out there!
posted December 22, 2016 01:37 PM

Maurice said:
I think Verriker hacked possessed Stevie's account mind. I think a -QP for both of them exorcism is in order.




Corrected it for you, you don't fool me though, you are all a unique member running all over this forum.
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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Flight of the Erwins
posted December 22, 2016 01:37 PM

Stevie said:
never felt better verriker mate thanks for inquiring lol


fair enough just not sure whether to interpret this valiant albeit unproficient attempt to rip off my posting style while having a big Heroes argument as flattery or humour or depression or a thinly veiled insult or what lol
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PandaTar
PandaTar


Promising
Supreme Hero
CH and HC Mascot
posted December 22, 2016 02:16 PM

What if verriker just wants to laugh?

"lol lol"?
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AlHazin
AlHazin


Famous Hero
The Erwin is out there!
posted December 22, 2016 02:19 PM

PandaTar said:
What if verriker just wants to laugh?

"lol lol"?


hue hue hue, lol
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted December 22, 2016 03:23 PM

verriker said:
Stevie said:
never felt better verriker mate thanks for inquiring lol


... this valiant albeit unproficient attempt to rip off my posting style ...
I tend to disagree, and I suppose I'm not the only one here.
The effort is proficient enough, which means, your reaction is looking a tad petty, if I may say so. Keep in mind Stevie is getting the laurels only as talented forger, while you get the laurels of being considered the forgeworthy original.

Err, lol?

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Galaad
Galaad


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posted December 22, 2016 03:46 PM

yogi said:
verriker hacked Stevie


Correction, Stevie hacked Stevie.
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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Flight of the Erwins
posted December 22, 2016 07:38 PM

JollyJoker said:
I tend to disagree, and I suppose I'm not the only one here.
The effort is proficient enough, which means, your reaction is looking a tad petty, if I may say so. Keep in mind Stevie is getting the laurels only as talented forger, while you get the laurels of being considered the forgeworthy original.

Err, lol?


nah just to intend to be constructive and honest there not petty or Scrooge, I mean the syntax and the punctuation is reasonably close but I'd say it's still a bit too clean and presentable you know, like a facsimile or reboot, where is the nitty gritty detail and thus with it the soul,

for instance he misses that bit where I constantly using very clunky phrasings and fudging basic English grammar of late so as to look increasingly retarded or Walter Mitty like as if daydreaming mid post,
or using weird and freer flowing Victoriana English sourced from Wodehouse or cockney phrases to be an ******* in sheep's clothing, and also the bit where I am using cheers mate cheers lol practically as punctuation every second or third sentence mate lol

also he got to dance between British and American English, and put in some line breaks at random and inconsistent intervals not such well defined paragraphs this is vital,
and also Erwin must ought to always be rendered Erwin, never Erwan or any of that silly crap "factual" variations (yuck my skin sure crawls to have to type that misspelled name mate lol) lol

point with Verriker persona is not to look stupid but actually be secretly intelligent, or wrap very intelligent posts in a skin of stupid so to speak, but actually to mask your very real stupidity by making people think you are even stupider than you actually are, which is only 96% as stupid as that but not quite 100%, thus making anyone you happen to outsmart look and feel absolutely ungodly stupid and rightly so cheers lol

unlike Jolly Joker persona which is simply to know it all and lord it over us bwahahaha just ribbing you there eyy wot mate lol, well merry Christmas and all that bollocks lol
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AlHazin
AlHazin


Famous Hero
The Erwin is out there!
posted December 22, 2016 07:46 PM

verriker said:
I constantly using very clunky phrasings and fudging basic English grammar of late so as to look increasingly retarded or Walter Mitty like as if daydreaming mid post


My friend I always fail to comprehend about 50% of the turnures you use verriker, that + the useless google translate which can't make up for it.

That said, I advice not to engage in posting in other members' styles, since it begins by adding lols at the end of your sentences, then it eventually ends up with you clashing in the OSM to defend Islam against pretty much everyone so watch out
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