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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 12, 2014 03:47 PM |
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supertommy
Known Hero
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posted December 12, 2014 03:52 PM |
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Then I suggest they do something else besides the helmet and are more creative than just giving the Titan a golden color.
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Rakshasa92
Supreme Hero
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posted December 12, 2014 04:34 PM |
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I don't understand how people can actually like this?
Its 2015 (almost) and the creatuers have less abilities than in 1999...
Don't like the Titan (never did) and its new form looks disturbing like always, its just a big golem...
The abilities are somewhat better than their lesser kin, but still very boring, simple and nothing special.
The magic birds are just a simple excuse to merge the Roc, Thunderbird and Phoenix. HOWEVER I get the feeling we get a red version (simple reskin) for the Phoenix anywayz for neutral. Reskins are easy for them...
Too bad.
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Nocturnal
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted December 12, 2014 05:10 PM |
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It is really impossible to please gamers.
The previous game's creatures were showered with abilities. They complained.
The next game's creatures get as many abilities as the beloved H5 creatures and they complain again.
Yeah, compare it. H5 has only this many abilities for creatures. And we all loved the game. I don't remember anyone complaining about the lack of abilities on most creatures except for Wraith maybe. Black Dragon had: Fire Breath and Magic Immunity. H6 one had myriad of abilities but sucked. Only 2 abilities made H5 Succubus one of the best shooters: Chain Shot, Ranged Retaliation. Djinns had "Random Caster" and that was it. Rakshasha had No Ret. and Dash only and they were great.
We don't know their initiatives, the initiative system, their speeds, their HPs, etc.
Just please try to stay with an open mind only once before a game. Don't you get bored of the same thing over and over before every game?
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Avonu
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
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posted December 12, 2014 05:12 PM |
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted December 12, 2014 05:22 PM |
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted December 12, 2014 05:22 PM |
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Avonu said:
Academy Champions, Pyramids and Spa
You are a bit late Avonu, Ubi-Nox has posted that on previous page. 
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Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.
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Avonu
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
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posted December 12, 2014 05:29 PM |
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Edited by Avonu at 17:30, 12 Dec 2014.
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I checked news section and didn't find any links, same on this page...
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"When someone desires information, they come to me."
"Details are everything."
Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!
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mike80d
Famous Hero
Map Maker
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posted December 12, 2014 06:12 PM |
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Rakshasa92 said:
I don't understand how people can actually like this?
Its 2015 (almost) and the creatuers have less abilities than in 1999...
I have to agree with this, but on more than just creature abilities (which are a bit behind 10+ year old games). Things like Simultaneous turns, map editor, dynamic creature abilities, good AI, town screens, and many other staples should not be voted for or debated - they should be guaranteed to be in any new game. I realize that many (not all) of these are slated for Heroes 7, but I do get a bit annoyed when they are presented as bonuses that they decided to include in the game.
I'm fine with whatever artistic liberties they take with units, even my favorite Titan, so long as the units aren't minuscule on the battle map and they are immersive.
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Darkem
Known Hero
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posted December 12, 2014 08:11 PM |
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Edited by Darkem at 20:11, 12 Dec 2014.
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I'm afraid that Ubi is cutting the budget of H7 right now... They did it with H6 and they seem to do it again. Why do I think that? Lack of real news (in comparison to few month after announcement), problems with the website, changes in Titan design (Hey! Let's just make it a reskin of its basic version) and (at least) "weird" vote for the things that ALL should be in CE.
One more word...
Quote:
H5 has only this many abilities for creatures. And we all loved the game.
I bet not all of us share your point of view. Really? H5? Aesthetics and AI killed the love...
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TD
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted December 12, 2014 08:13 PM |
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Can't say I'm exactly impressed with the "new" academy. It seems more like h5 academy was shaken around a bit with some skills thrown out and around. By main points it's the very same faction so far as units are the same, only mana-drain was added to the faction for djinn and arcane wings for bird(+the unit itself). Magic protections were thrown around and some changed to elemental immunities.
Cabir = Gremlin, no real change as far as I can see(single element weakness/protection on t1 unit isn't that big of a deal in my eyes).
Gargoyle turned mechanical so it can be fixed.
Golem gave magic protection to titan.
Djinn got mana-steal from imp...?
Rakshasa was combined from 1st and 3rd form.
Disciple was simplified into single area spell-"caster"
Simurgh was old elemental gargoyle modified essentially to not increase just specified elemental on small area, but all spells(possibly everywhere). Arcane wings seems much like reversed h7 angel aura(buff->debuff). Since mages don't know any real spells, should I assume it(nova) won't get boost from Simurgh?
Titan got lowered melee capabilities and turned mechanical with modified magic protection.
Pyramid seems ok idea, but making big and small one seems just lazy work so you can use same model. First-aid seems very basic, just added ability to fix constructs.
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted December 12, 2014 08:58 PM |
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Reading the description of first-aid tent makes me wonder several things ... will we need both first-aid tent AND chabir to be present in order to repair units? Description make it unclear to me ... or will first-aid tent increase Chabir's repairing ability? Or maybe first-aid tent will have ability to repair aswell as heal, as long as chabir is in army?
Overall i see relation Chabir-Titan very similar than Sylvan's Pixie-Treant. And Titan vs Arcane Eagle feels to me also similar in decision making. Titan being defensive unit "anti-magic tank" if you will, while Arcane eagle being the offensive choice.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted December 12, 2014 09:05 PM |
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Rakshasa92 said:
I don't understand how people can actually like this?
Its 2015 (almost) and the creatuers have less abilities than in 1999...
Don't like the Titan (never did) and its new form looks disturbing like always, its just a big golem...
The abilities are somewhat better than their lesser kin, but still very boring, simple and nothing special.
Well on one hand I have to say that more abilities does not necessarily make a better game, H6 did show that giving every unit a unique and powerful ability did not work well.
When that's said, I have to agree that most of the new abilities are pretty underwhelming, particularly I'm surprised that the champion units don't have a wider range of abilities than they do. No spellbook on "caster" units is also a major bummer, obviously.
Also ... "Pyramid" and "Great Pyramid" ... really? 
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What will happen now?
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Avonu
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
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posted December 12, 2014 09:09 PM |
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Edited by Avonu at 21:11, 12 Dec 2014.
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Zombi_Wizzard said:
Reading the description of first-aid tent makes me wonder several things ... will we need both first-aid tent AND chabir to be present in order to repair units? Description make it unclear to me ... or will first-aid tent increase Chabir's repairing ability? Or maybe first-aid tent will have ability to repair aswell as heal, as long as chabir is in army?
Not really.
It's just lore description, why Healing Tent will be heal non-living units like Golem, Gargoyle or Colossus.
alcibiades said:
Also ... "Pyramid" and "Great Pyramid" ... really?
They were previous named Small Pyramid and Great Pyramid.
____________
"When someone desires information, they come to me."
"Details are everything."
Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!
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TD
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted December 12, 2014 09:11 PM |
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since we are on the topic of unit abilities and spells I suppose I gotta give my take on it too. The basic system in h5 I think was good using spell-book with casters. The problem was that spells didn't grow in power enough with damage spells. Using spells that lowered stats/values worked well and it gave good variety to have different spells. To solve the problem with damage spells I'd suggest using linear damage growth till point X. After that it would only rise in progressive model where each step requires more and more to be achieved. This way it won't go into insane numbers like in h4 and h6, but it would still allow growth and keep the spells viable.
The reason I like spell-book and mana-usage for casters is that it gives gives variety to the game. If every unit is going to have activated abilities like in h6 caster doesn't feel a whole lot different from other units since they all got that one button on the left. It just breaks the immersion for me when disciple for example only knows how to do single spell and doesn't have spellbook. Isn't this guy basically hero in training? Or have you decided to change normal heroes spells into abilities too with no mana? And normal heroes can use the same spell, right? I mean the hero should be higher in the hierarchy...
With usage of mana it also opens possibility to play around with different unit abilities, hero abilities and artifacts which increase/decrease the amount of mana, max mana and mana-usage.
Casters should have some variety as to what they can do and mana limits the combinations of the spells available and forces player to think which spell they need more. Now it simply seems throw nova or shoot.
The h4 model that used basically same model as h6 where the damage-growth was linear and without limits. The problem with model like that is the unbalance it brings eventually. In h6 I considered yuki-onna the most powerful unit in the game just for the special ability of creating ice-field. Because the damage grew in linear fashion it killed from AI basically 3-5 stacks always partially because of the bad AI and partially because the way damage increased.
In h4 the same problem lingered since with academy(order) you could do insane damage with mages using poison(full damage behind walls as I recall) and djinns with ice bolt(+they had many spells).
I'll admit that I wasn't exactly fan of h6 skill-fest where units pretty much had 5-6 abilities. However I can't say I'm fan of this 1-2 skill-deficiency either where you recycle same skills between faction and simplifying the game(and I realize you loved h6 and it's attempt to simplify things in general, but I just don't share it). Currently I look at units and see:
3/4 factions have piercing shot(stalker, archer and mage)
4/4 factions have multi-attack(blade-dancer, rakshasa, hydra and sword bearer)
Also 3/4 factions seem to have aura(angel, dragon, bird, maybe sylvan will get one too?)
4/4 factions have core and elite shooter (+ 2 melee units in both).
The game needs variety. Teams should be fairly different from each other. Using same molds and same skills all around kills the variety from the game. Using same skills is even worse because there are not many skills overall on units so it stands out a lot more because of it. Don't make the mistake h6 did where all faction felt so much alike(to me at least) just to ease the balancing for you. Currently it just screams lazyness to me that units will get 1-2 skills period and especially since you recycle some of the skills around. The unit upgrades feel so lame when you just change the color or slap some extra jewelry for the unit. With skills I'd go:
Core 1-3 skills
Elite: 2-5 Skills
Champion 3-6 skills
The reason I'd use larger gaps in skill-amounts is that it would allow some units to have few skills while some could have plenty so units would really feel different. I include protections and immunities in those skills and consider base a melee unit so being shooter or flier for example is also a skill. This way there could be more difference between factions and inside factions. Some factions may have more skills than others, some may have better stats, some may be more expensive etc. There needs to be some real variation!
I hope with necro and orcs they won't be like any of the current factions in unit-types at the very least. All factions don't need core + elite shooters! Make factions feel and be unique. Currently(while creeping) it feels like early on for example each faction will:
1. Weaken enemy with shooter(archer, stalker, cabir and hunter)
2. Strike enemy with tank(sentinel, troglo, golem and pixie[no retalation])
3. Strike with 2nd melee(wolf, assasin, gargoyle and dryad)
Again this feel very much like simplification in tactics if all factions are best of using same tactics. While situations and enemy strength vary it seems like they are all very similar to play
4. Each faction also probably has healing(heal, life drain, repair and regeneration).
Anyhow I hope I'm wrong on this, but h7 seems to follow pretty close to it's greatest inspiration and idol the awesome, the grand, the enlightening h6 on general level
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted December 12, 2014 09:27 PM |
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Cabirs are sweet, hope they are numerous but not too tough. Can't imagine use for fire immunity, seems redundant but we'll see. Cabirs are a great replacement for Gremlins which I loved, repair makes the other cores bearable. ;P
Gargoyles seem a copy of H5 with exact same role and abilities. Better aesthetics though for sure, lol.
Golems seem good against Sylvan for not getting entangled or whatnot.. but other than that is still meh. It never inspired me as a unit.
Djinn is interesting, the immunity to Prime is nothing too epic I think but something more useful for an elite unit. The fact that melee attacks trigger spells on enemies seem dangerous (remember Witches in Dungeon casting Bereserk on units with melee, lol)
Rakshasa is the same. Sweep + No retal is just deadly. Brute force is needed in the line-up. They seem to want to keep things simple, I don't mind really. Tons of activated abilities is not the essence of the game. Sure you could base all strategies on them but if the new "positioning is the biggest strategy" works I'm up for it.
Disciple is an AoE shooter, the Archlich in other words. Hope it is Prime damage, so no resurrection and Djinn synergy. If not then it's not too exiting.
Simurgh does exactly what I hoped for, to boost your magical powers. For a Mage relying on spells this is the pick for sure. Love it, hope it is not too fragile though.
Titan seems epic, if you cast Implosion then next Titan attack will have some power from it added to your attack? Please yes, please ;P
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted December 12, 2014 10:31 PM |
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the reduction in abilities (especially active ones) is really good if you ask me as it simplifies a lot. simple is good. h6 proved that complex combat is not only bad, but unwanted. this progression to get away from that is fantastic. this more passive way of having simple yet important abilities is just exactly what i want. some more uniques stuff would be nice though, but not too much.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted December 12, 2014 10:47 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 01:46, 13 Dec 2014.
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kiryu133 said:
h6 proved that complex combat
What h6 complex combat ?? As far as I recall it was pretty much the one having the biggest army that won from that game
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted December 12, 2014 11:07 PM |
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Galaad said:
kiryu133 said:
h6 proved that complex combat
What h6 complex combat ?? As far as I recall it was pretty much the one having the biggest army that won from that game
complexity =/= depth. h6 is a prime example of this as it was complex but it still only boiled down to who had the largest army. it lacked depth. h3 was deep but simple. there weren't necessarily as many things to keep track of (creatures, spells. that's about it) but it still managed to bee incredibly deep. simple yet very deep.
and that's why i'm very interested to see where h7 is going. simplicity is almost always preferred
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Kimarous
Supreme Hero
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posted December 13, 2014 02:30 AM |
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Pretty sure the image used in the preview is the actual "older" version and that the concept used on the Faction page is the newer one. Why? Because the head icons for the Faction page have always used the model used for this unit preview.
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
