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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 29, 2015 10:54 PM |
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Cepheus said:
Best to keep quiet until I have something to show, no?
No! Get back here!
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted January 29, 2015 11:03 PM |
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LizardWarrior said:
Zombi_Wizzard said:
I am personaly not too fond of HD remakes. Mods can fix that for you. It's the same as with AOE II HD - that one came with expansion tho, so it was better.
AOE II HD also came with mod support! And made a fan expansion official 
Indeed. I almost forgot, that originaly population cap was "only" at 200 and not 500.
Well HoMM III rerelease did come with one mod ... the HD mod  I still don't know why they removed the expansions ... I sense Armageddon's Blade HD and Shadow of Death HD in the future for only 15$ each ... making full set at no less than 45$ - great deal LOL - I'll pass
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted January 29, 2015 11:10 PM |
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blob2 said:
Please kind Sir, try to be serious here
You don't want laser eyes? I am seriously disappointed. 
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted January 29, 2015 11:17 PM |
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Pawek_13 said:
You don't want laser eyes? I am seriously disappointed.
in all seriousness, laser breath is clearly superior.
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted January 29, 2015 11:18 PM |
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Someone summoned Cepheus  That is quite a feat.
____________
Let's play poker game, lich-style!
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 29, 2015 11:31 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 23:48, 29 Jan 2015.
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Sorry for b****in' so much on the subject but it's just important. I see absolutely nothing wrong with suicide to make you reach Archlichdom faster. If you analyse the text it's just clear that it is possible:
"An Archlich is given that title when he has continued "living" beyond what his or her physical shell would have normally permitted."
Say I'm a 20 years old Necromant and I undertake this ritual. My physical shell would have normally permitted me, as a male human, to live an average lifespan of 70 years (that doesn't mean that I'll live 70 years no matter what, just that 70 years happens to be the average for a human male like me, if I get my throat slit 3 hours from now of course I'll die!). But because I'm young and restless (no pun intended), I want the power that comes with Archlichdom now, so I drink a small dose of Manticore poison. Under these new conditions, my physical shell would normally permit me to live a lifespan of 3 hours. Now I take the Namtaru venom and become a Lich, triggering the hypothetical clock for becoming an Archlich that should happen in roughly 3 hours. I'll suffer greatly and my flesh will be torn from my body, leaving me a walking skeleton. F*cks I give? - 0. I would've became a desiccated Lich anyway eventually, because I'd rather live longer, but then I thought why not also be efficient and skip a step and become an Archlich? Now I expect this to become a thing among our ranks, because it's just better to be an Archlich faster than a Lich longer. And those pesky kids can play Skeletal Liches again.
There is 0 reason why this should not work like that. Unless we arbitrarily invent a concept like "destined life" which is outside the lore, because in reality what the "physical shell would have normally permitted" can mean anything from one second to the maximum life of my race. Furthermore, the concept of potential lifespan is relevant only after you consume Namtaru venom in the context of Archlich, not before or in any other circumstances.
Marzhin objecting to it makes me wonder what his intentions are. Maybe he wants to spare me the disappointment. Maybe I'm just looking to much into it.
And with this I think I'm finally finished. Or you can always question me and make me b**** even more! 
____________
Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted January 29, 2015 11:42 PM |
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Edited by Pawek_13 at 23:42, 29 Jan 2015.
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted January 29, 2015 11:57 PM |
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Huh so being archlich isn't anything special ... no ritual involved, no special requerments ... nothing. Just killing yourself would suffice. Why have normal Liches then at all? How do they exist? Do some Liches prefer to stay that way?
I guess this makes sense tho. When you upgrade a unit, it does not become any rarer, just better, so it's better then having in unit description a text that says ... "Only the elite amongst elite of Goblins rise to the rank of Hobgoblin..." for example. Such explanation means there should be like 1 Hobgoblin and 100 perhaps normal ones, yet when you upgrade them, all units in your army consist of Hobgoblins ... or Archliches in this case
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted January 30, 2015 12:21 AM |
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Edited by Maurice at 00:23, 30 Jan 2015.
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I guess that the definition wasn't specified clearly enough .
My own personal take on it: your natural life span is the life span that one would attain when living with access to food and water as needed to sustain oneself, without external factors (either inflicted by 'others' willingly or unaware - note that this includes diseases too! - or inflicted by self) cutting that life span short.
Now, as for the destiny issue of some guy who faces a skeletal horde at the age of 25, while he is destined to live for 50 years: whatever happens during that battle, only one thing is certain: he will not die. The very fact that his destiny means he will live to the age of 50 immediately takes away his possibility to die before that. But that's also the only thing that is certain to happen (that he won't die) - whatever really does happen could be anything from something of amazing grandeur to something completely slapstick stupid, through which he somehow avoids getting killed by all those undead. We just don't know; once again, we only know he won't die at that moment.
This is also the reason why it's suicide to challenge someone who is foretold through prophecy to do something that he hasn't yet done .
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fuChris
Promising
Supreme Hero
Master to the Speed of Light
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posted January 30, 2015 12:28 AM |
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Edited by fuChris at 00:30, 30 Jan 2015.
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Stevie...
I think you just recreated Shrödinger's Lich theory.
Put a Lich in a box with two bottles of venom and some uranium(dragonblood crystal?) where upon the expiring of a normal lifespan the the bottles are smahed and after a while the Lich will be represented by a wave function that simultaneously includes both dead and undead state at the same time.
Now we finally know that it takes someone who understands the quantum entanglement theory to become a dragon god for Sar-Elam to have figured this out.
____________
"Now I am become Chris, the destroyer of worlds." - Robert Oppenheimer.
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted January 30, 2015 12:32 AM |
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Maurice said:
This is also the reason why it's suicide to challenge someone who is foretold through prophecy to do something that he hasn't yet done .
Yet in Ashan we have already seen playing with infallible prophets. In Heroes VI the 2nd Eclipse happened a few years before it was fortold by the Blind Brothers. However, I agree with you in terms of the "time of passing away". The lore of Ahan is really a complex issue...
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted January 30, 2015 12:39 AM |
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Zombi_Wizzard said:
Just killing yourself would suffice.
No it won't. Who told this? Stevie?
Maurice said:
Now, as for the destiny issue of some guy who faces a skeletal horde at the age of 25, while he is destined to live for 50 years: whatever happens during that battle, only one thing is certain: he will not die. The very fact that his destiny means he will live to the age of 50 immediately takes away his possibility to die before that. But that's also the only thing that is certain to happen (that he won't die) - whatever really does happen could be anything from something of amazing grandeur to something completely slapstick stupid, through which he somehow avoids getting killed by all those undead. We just don't know; once again, we only know he won't die at that moment.
This is also the reason why it's suicide to challenge someone who is foretold through prophecy to do something that he hasn't yet done .
This ans this exactly. This is the concept of destiny.
Might I add an example? I think everybody here watched/read LotR. Remember Witch-King of Angmar? No mortal man could have possibly killed him. It was his destiny which he used to his advantage several times. And in the end he was defeated by a woman and a hobbit.
Pawek_13 said:
Yet in Ashan we have already seen playing with infallible prophets. In Heroes VI the 2nd Eclipse happened a few years before it was fortold by the Blind Brothers. However, I agree with you in terms of the "time of passing away". The lore of Ahan is really a complex issue...
2nd eclipse came forward because of chaotic powers. Chaos surely interferes with fate and such things.
____________
Let's play poker game, lich-style!
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted January 30, 2015 12:43 AM |
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I can already see the headlines, Ubi endorses suicide
____________
"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 30, 2015 12:51 AM |
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Edited by Stevie at 01:03, 30 Jan 2015.
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But until then - In The News: "Suspicions that Might & Magic lore turns people insane have been confirmed with a conversation on fan forum trying to reason Ashan that resulted in the mental collapse of some participants."
____________
Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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Marzhin
Shaper of Lore
Designer & Writer, Ubisoft
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posted January 30, 2015 01:01 AM |
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Stevie said:
But until then - In The News: "Suspicions that Might & Magic lore turns people insane have been confirmed with a conversation on fan forum trying to reason Ashan that resulted in the mental collapse of some participants."
Crazy people always try to blame the video games
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted January 30, 2015 01:02 AM |
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Stevie said:
But until then - In The News: "Suspicions that Might & Magic lore turns people insane have been confirmed with a conversation on fan forum trying to reason Ashan resulting in the mental collapse of some members."
While Marzhin is reading this thread and is laughing maniacally.
____________
Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.
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Avonu
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
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posted January 30, 2015 07:41 AM |
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Edited by Avonu at 07:46, 30 Jan 2015.
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Cepheus said:
Wouldn't be for quite some time, though, with my current schedule. Best to keep quiet until I have something to show, no?
[/delurk][lurk]
See, what you have done with all this lichdom talking? You reanimated some very old bones.
Welcome back to the land of the living. Now pick up a shovel and get digging!
____________
"When someone desires information, they come to me."
"Details are everything."
Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted January 30, 2015 08:50 AM |
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I know I'm bit late but...
Cepheus on the Forum!?!
Nice to see you again.
I must say I'm impressed, I never thought that there would be people so dedicated to the lore. Sure not all people like it, but the KNOW it.. This is something I only ever saw on TV. But instead of Comics and Star wars they talk M&M.
____________
I'm just a Mirror of your self.
We see, we look, we gather, we store, we teach.
We are many, and you can be one of us.
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Steyn
Supreme Hero
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posted January 30, 2015 09:10 AM |
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My take on this whole lich-archlich discussion:
The main difference between liches and archliches is power. This power is gained by study and experience, hence over the years. This means the older a lich gets, the more powerful he will be.
Now when would we set the (arbitrary) line between lich and archlich? A logical point in ones life is the age upon one would have normally died, as he is now older than a mortal wizard would ever get.
The older a lich gets, the more skeletal he becomes. Therefore the (old) skeletal liches are (generally) more powerful than the (young) fleshy liches. However, if you use the Moander method Stevie is so fond of, you surely get the appearance of an archlich, but you'll lack the experience and thus the power. So you will lose the few years you had left to enjoy having flesh on your bones for naught.
The only thing we can hope for now (for heroes VII) is that the archliches will look a bit more skeletal than the Heroes VI ones did.
____________
Can you make a faction including these units?
Join the Finding Harmony competition 2.0!
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted January 30, 2015 09:16 AM |
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Marzhin said:
But what do they have to gain from it? Unless being a Skeletal Lich grants you some extra power or advantage, but in Moander's case it didn't. If anything it might have ruined his chance to become a Vampire later on, since there's no flesh to rejuvenate anymore.
Just grabbing back to this statement, because I do see a clear advantage. In the current setting, a Lich needs to sustain himself with blood of the Mother Namtaru. The story with Sandro clearly shows a weakness there, when he tries (but fails, thanks to the player's interference) to erase the Mother Namtaru from existence and from history. All Liches and Vampires start to die off all over the place.
That's a serious weakness exposed by Sandro right then and there. I can't imagine any intelligent being not taking countermeasures against such a single point of failure in their survival. Finding other means to sustain oneself in a future event that the Mother Namtaru is unavailable would seem a logical drive. Even if it means tapping into Void Magic energy, it doesn't mean they need to adopt the same philosophy as our good and dear Sandro.
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
