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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted February 24, 2015 01:04 PM |
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Avirosb said:
Did the old Nec have spiders and horse-vampires?
And was the Glamassu really that popular?
Spiders, no. I'm not going to debate that.
Edit: and the Lamasu being popular or not is not the question, as I said, it's about new units, and the Lamasu isn't new anymore.
But horse-vampires, yes. In essence they have been part of Necropolis since H3. Because the notion that they are Vampires is irrellevant, that's just the coat of paint, in concept, they are high-tier undead cavalry and we've had plenty of those.
H3 had Black Knights and Dread Knights.
H4 had Dark Champions.
H5 had Death Knights.
H7 is getting Grim Riders.
All of these are high-tier undead cavalry. So as far as I am concerned the Grim Riders are a continuation of the Black Knight-concept with a poorly chosen name.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted February 24, 2015 01:12 PM |
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War-overlord said:
So as far as I am concerned the Grim Riders are a continuation of the Black Knight-concept with a poorly chosen name.
And poor chosen background.
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted February 24, 2015 01:14 PM |
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fuChris said:
Not more nonsensical than anything else in Ashan. Vampire-Djinns and Elemental Dragon-Phonixes in H8 are as reasonable as Undead Spider and Vampire Wraiths are in H7.
The only common trait of vampires is that they are evil, blood-sucking spirits, nothing more, so in that case why they cannot look like wraiths? They still have to consume blood and intimidate their enemies, so I see no problem. Phoenix is a unique creature that has been present only in Greek mythology and it's features are very precisely defined, therefore I see no possibility of making them undead.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted February 24, 2015 01:15 PM |
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Galaad said:
And poor chosen background.
Ain't nobody forcing you to read that.
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted February 24, 2015 01:15 PM |
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Wow.. troll mode activated
You people really don't what to complain about anymore :-D
If you would only see the names of the units, you would instantly dismiss the spider since, Hey no spiders in our undead town.
If you would then see the models you would dismiss 5 of them for being direct copies, and the skeleton would get some grims for being a modified one. Since the spider is out you got stock with the Reaper.
Ok What shall we find bad on this one. Design is OK-ish. abilities are fitting so where to find some filth on this one? Flavor-text YES!!! No Ubi you won't get away with anything from your stupid line up. it is not to our liking and we shall basch whatever we can on it to show you how much we are hurt by your decisions.
OK enough of that but really, You people complain about the Reaper being a vampire? Really? Like if it had any impact on the unit or it's abilities. And hands on heart who freaking focuses on the flavor-text when you play the game? Do you? I don't think so, otherwise you would not be so confused by the lore so much.
The most fun part on this is who has all these problems, people who openly do not care about the setting. And Fair deal, we do not need to care. But unlike the spider, whose presence is justified entirely by the background, the reaper, freed from his text, would still fit into the line-up.
It is not like you will ever have to read their in-game description, you only need it's abilities and stats, everything else is fluff, and as such it is entirely on you how much attention you pay to it. And since most of you openly say the pay as less as possible I don't se why the flavor-text influences yout gaming experience.
Like I said it is something else if the background influences the unit, like Liches not being skeleton, that is a case you all have the right to complain about. And I'm actually willing to help you, since even I think that background things should create inspiration for the units and not dictate a guid-line for it. But in the case of the reaper, there is nothing in the text that has forcefully influenced the design.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted February 24, 2015 01:18 PM |
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War-overlord said:
Galaad said:
And poor chosen background.
Ain't nobody forcing you to read that.
Maybe I want to read that.
Dave_Jame said:
Wow.. troll mode activated
You people really don't what to complain about anymore :-D
There sure is a lot, but some things were said many times already. On top of that, Elvin did say we had been vocal enough already a few pages ago.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted February 24, 2015 01:22 PM |
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Galaad said:
Maybe I want to read that.
Who are you foolin?
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fuChris
Promising
Supreme Hero
Master to the Speed of Light
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posted February 24, 2015 01:22 PM |
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Edited by fuChris at 13:28, 24 Feb 2015.
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Pawek_13 said:
fuChris said:
Not more nonsensical than anything else in Ashan. Vampire-Djinns and Elemental Dragon-Phonixes in H8 are as reasonable as Undead Spider and Vampire Wraiths are in H7.
The only common trait of vampires is that they are evil, blood-sucking spirits, nothing more, so in that case why they cannot look like wraiths? They still have to consume blood and intimidate their enemies, so I see no problem. Phoenix is a unique creature that has been present only in Greek mythology and it's features are very precisely defined, therefore I see no possibility of making them undead.
"Asha uses ALL."
Don't ever forget that.
Also, vampires are by no means evil. They have been neutral ever since Ubi took over.
As for vampires looking like wraiths, I have no problem with that but they should add some flufftext like, over the centuries their bones have soaked up all the namtaru venom from their veins leaving them more attuned to the death energies of the spider godess but losing their flesh in the process. There we go, skeletal hooded avatars of death that are somehow still vampires. They could make it work but as always the effort put in creating the world is almost nothing.
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"Now I am become Chris, the destroyer of worlds." - Robert Oppenheimer.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted February 24, 2015 01:24 PM |
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War-overlord said:
Galaad said:
Maybe I want to read that.
Who are you foolin?
Is not because I am not a specialist on the matter that I cannot be affected by stuff I find rather silly.
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted February 24, 2015 01:25 PM |
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Who wouldn't want to read lore? Just look at heroes III for example, that time when he was alive and raped Jabarkas adoptive daughter (or he was into orc women) Who would want to miss that? 
Quote:
This place looks familiar. You have a hazy memory of bringing a beautiful maiden here several years back, and... your thoughts are interrupted when one of your spies approaches. "Sir, Lord Jabarkas knows you are in the area and is planning to kill you. He has not forgotten you kidnapping his daughter and violating her. He has recruited a large army from another Stronghold in the northeast and plans to attack you shortly."
"Did he make mention of the artifacts?" you ask.
"No, sir."
"Well done. Dismissed."
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted February 24, 2015 01:29 PM |
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Galaad said:
Is not because I am not a specialist on the matter that I cannot be affected by stuff I find rather silly.
Actively going out of your way to obtain things that spoil your enjoyment of something you love makes you a masochist though.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted February 24, 2015 01:30 PM |
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War-overlord said:
Actively going out of your way to obtain things that spoil your enjoyment of something you love makes you a masochist though.
I didn't go as far as you may think, but some things are just screaming out of the screen.
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted February 24, 2015 01:33 PM |
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LizardWarrior said:
Who wouldn't want to read lore? Just look at heroes III for example, that time when he was alive and raped Jabarkas adoptive daughter (or he was into orc women) Who would want to miss that?
yeah wtf was going on in that map? a couple of its events were actually pretty distasteful and out of place in the NWC lore
wasn't Jabarkas the son of Boragus, how could he be Ethric's brother? and wasn't Sandro already a lich like at least 30 or 40 years before Shadow of Death? the timeline can't possibly work out unless he literally boned Jabarkas's daughter lol
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted February 24, 2015 01:39 PM |
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Yep, Sandro fought in the succession wars and was also a lich-warlock in H1. How could fool a well-known lich Gem and Crag-Hag, maybe both were complete idiots. Also Sandro is drinking wine like an alcoholic while having no flesh on his mandible, is he using his lich-jar? But on the other hand he can cast spells to fool people he's alive. Ok, maybe that wasn't the strongest NWC story-telling
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted February 24, 2015 01:42 PM |
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Galaad said:
I didn't go as far as you may think, but some things are just screaming out of the screen.
You've made it known that the lore is actively spoiling your enjoyment. Therefor not reading the lore, avoiding it and remaining ignorant of that which you've deemed dreck, would make you a happier person.
Doing that which spoils your enjoyment for no appearant reward or benefit marks a fool or a masochist. And I know for a fact that you're not a fool.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted February 24, 2015 01:45 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 13:45, 24 Feb 2015.
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War-overlord said:
You've made it known that the lore is actively spoiling your enjoyment. Therefor not reading the lore, avoiding it and remaining ignorant of that which you've deemed dreck, would make you a happier person.
Doing that which spoils your enjoyment for no appearant reward or benefit marks a fool or a masochist. And I know for a fact that you're not a fool.
I thought you read me better some while ago, I have this theory about lore affecting everything else in the game. The picture is deeper than "do I like the lore or not", I think lore has way more importance and impact on the game than what most people seem to think.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted February 24, 2015 01:51 PM |
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Galaad said:
I thought you read me better some while ago, I have this theory about lore affecting everything else in the game. The picture is deeper than "do I like the lore or not", I think lore has way more importance and impact on the game than what most people seem to think.
And if you don't know about all that, you're not bothered by it. Or at the very least bothered much less. Ignorace is bliss.
All of what you say may be true about what is and isn't affected by the lore. But it is still your choice to let it bother you.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted February 24, 2015 01:53 PM |
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Now I can't but imagine Galaads wall full of lore pictures and gameplay elements linked with red strings...
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted February 24, 2015 01:55 PM |
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War-overlord said:
And if you don't know about all that, you're not bothered by it. Or at the very least bothered much less. Ignorace is bliss.
I disagree.
The looks of Heroes V highly bothered me, and when I started campaign, I understood pretty fast why I didn't choose to finish it. I understood lore was the reason of all my problems with Heroes V. You gotta admit designs and visuals -contributing to the atmosphere- are tied together with the lore, so whether I have a problem regarding the universe, I am willing to think lore is to blame for most cases. Trust me, if I could have avoided Ashan to affect me, I would have done so.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted February 24, 2015 01:57 PM |
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Galaad said:
I disagree.
The looks of Heroes V highly bothered me, and when I started campaign, I understood pretty fast why I didn't choose to finish it. I understood lore was the reason of all my problems with Heroes V. You gotta admit designs and visuals -contributing to the atmosphere- are tied together with the lore, so whether I have a problem regarding the universe, I am willing to think lore is to blame for most cases. Trust me, if I could have avoided Ashan to affect me, I would have done so.
How many non-campaign map did you play?
Did you enjoy those?
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
