|
|
Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
|
posted February 28, 2015 02:06 PM |
|
Edited by Galaad at 14:07, 28 Feb 2015.
|
No, I stressed the word unfortunately to highlight my personal preference.
____________
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted February 28, 2015 02:14 PM |
|
|
Well, once again, I dont have a categorical problem with sci-fi/fantasy (at least in gaming, in fiction, it may cause serious inconsistencies if not done masterfully) but I dont prefer it with Heroes 3. This is not much different than saying Beethoven is really better on piano and the electric guitar versions of his sonatas are not better or innovative just because they are eccentric.
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
|
|
Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
|
|
posted February 28, 2015 02:15 PM |
|
|
I've edited my post, is it better?
____________
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted February 28, 2015 02:40 PM |
|
|
Well, it's more accurate if we're specifically talking about me. But my intention was not to make you edit your post, I wasnt offended or anything like that. Thanks anyway.
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
|
|
Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
|
|
posted February 28, 2015 02:50 PM |
|
|
Ok, I still try not to point at anyboby, so I've edited further.
____________
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted February 28, 2015 02:52 PM |
|
|
Lol, dude. Sometimes, I think you're too nice to survive in this world.  We should have a world full of more people like you.
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted February 28, 2015 03:08 PM |
|
|
|
Kayna
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted February 28, 2015 03:55 PM |
|
|
|
Jeez. Everybody knows that only gnomes and dwarves can bring technology in a fantasy world.
|
|
Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
|
|
posted February 28, 2015 04:33 PM |
|
|
Kayna said:
Jeez. Everybody knows that only gnomes and dwarves can bring technology in a fantasy world.
Dwarves and gnomes with cannons and rifles, shooting from behind cover of their defenders 
|
|
GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted February 28, 2015 05:09 PM |
|
|
artu said:
It seems like you are the one with the reading problem, so drop the snowing attitude. Just because they are aliens, doesnt automatically make them sci-fi, if they use magic, they are still fantasy. And they are also closer to fantasy in terms of style, so not a proper example in any regard.
Magic (or the arcane to be specific) is an element of existance and an energy source. Invocations are basically formulas to make the arcane materalize stuff. We have a character literally calling mathematic iirc (in Tides of War). Magical prowess is scientisfic prowess in WC.
Now that being said you still dont grasp my point. High tech aliens falling from the sky is a sci fi troop. Warcraft succesfully adapted the tropp and made it blend well in a fantasy world. The forge on the other hand clashes heavily with the rest of the world it was in.
Stevie said:
Sci-fi ship, right.
No, the sci fi of the Tempest Keep part comes from being an interdimensional travelling ship. The laser shooting crystals are actually from WoD. They're part of Karabor defense system
|
|
Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
|
|
posted February 28, 2015 05:17 PM |
|
|
Galaad said:
I used the word “consistency” as a synonym of “uniformity” or “coherency”, something I fail to see between, in example, Ashan and Enroth.
Granted for the resources, accusing Ashan of them may have been taking it a bit too far.
Although it affects the visuals of creatures, lore also impacts story-telling. But again, I let the experts judge for the latter.
As in my response to Zombi, if majority doesn’t care, on which purpose would it try to hamper people who does?
I am well-aware I am only sharing my opinion, and about spiders, since we both agree it is badly used anyway, why do you keep fighting me about it?
Ofc you fail to see it, the setting was rebooted. And still they try to use Legacy Heroes etc to "honor" the old universe. Or use them to attract more old-time fans, depends on the point of view.
Nope, the lore impacts on story itself, not the storytelling (it's nor because of Ashan that we have movie-style story rather than the bool-style). And really, Ashan influences nothing more.
Hm. Why did you get the feeling that the "majority" tries to hamper those who care about graphics? Actually, we have two "minorities" discussion right now. It's like a debate of 2 politicians.
I'm not fighting with you, I'm just expressing my own opinion as well ^^
____________
Let's play poker game, lich-style!
|
|
Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
|
|
posted February 28, 2015 05:47 PM |
|
|
Ok, but what I think you fail to see my good friend is that I question the reboot itself. Why would you feel the need to “honor” the old universe elsewhere than in the actual game? In case you didn’t get it, I, unlike you, lost this wonderful, magical and fairytalish feeling you described so well a bit earlier I can still find in NWC games. I honestly find a great difference between the pre-Ubi atmosphere and theirs. And I will admit at this point, is mainly –if not only- because of aesthetics. And I know for a fact I am far from being alone in this case.
My point however is, that I genuinely believe the aesthetics comes out right from the lore, and even with more toned down designs, what I call the background (hence, the story and general environment) is still affected. So even if the Spidercult is not so present (as in H5) I still miss that aura, which was still present for you in the reboot title. The thing is, the world appears through aesthetics, and I never was satisfied with the world of Ashan.
____________
|
|
GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted February 28, 2015 06:00 PM |
|
|
|
Officially because the M&M lore was so over the place without a "Compendium" to the point they knew they would snow up and making a new universe was easier. Realistically probably its that but more importantly H4 being floppy
|
|
LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
|
|
posted February 28, 2015 06:03 PM |
|
|
|
You shouldn't have to buy a book to understand the story of a game
|
|
Sleeping_Sun
Promising
Famous Hero
Townscreen Architect
|
|
posted February 28, 2015 06:07 PM |
|
|
Stevie said:
Tempest Keep can be accurately described as an enchanted fortress. It has the ability to Travel along the Twisting Nether - a realm of intense energy that links all the worlds of the Great Dark together. This is where the term "inter-dimensional" comes from. A "space ship" would simply traverse the distance of the great dark from point A to point B. Tempest keep uses the Twisting nether to travel almost instantaneously from place to place. In essence, it is a self-contained Dark Portal which operates on the same principle.
Metzen: The draenei nether-ship you've been hearing about is far more than it seems. It's part of a larger dimension-traveling fortress called Tempest Keep that essentially teleports through alternate realities. It doesn't bank and roll or shoot photon torpedoes (not yet, anyway).
This time, I agree with Genya that this is SF. It simply uses too much SF motifs.
EDIT:
@artu
Star Wars is science fiction. Advanced technology, lasers, robots, cyborg, spaceships, faster-than-speed-of-light travel, space travel, planetary voyages, etc. - these are all conventions of SF. Even the force is explained in a scientific way, which brings it more closer to SF rather than fantasy, even though it is seen usually as 'magic'.
Also, time travel is pure SF motif that got incorporated in fantasy. But as I already said, SF and fantasy are really close genres, maybe even too close. Thus the line that differentiates them is usually blurred and thin.
|
|
Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
|
|
posted February 28, 2015 06:08 PM |
|
|
If I may ... I do not belive aesthetics come from lore. As far as I know concept arts were available before creature backgrounds were written in game. Or atleast that's how it was revealed to us.
I belive that we could easily get old visual style of heroes games, witouth changing lore much. What does: "Vampire drinks spider vomit" do anything to vampire's appearence? Imo not much. The way I see it, lore is prety much independent of aesthetics. There are exceptions, like spider cult tho, where lore is indeed too much pronounced in actual art style.
Vice versa, you can completly destroy Ashan in favour of new setting, and still keep this art style. When devs "created" Ashan, they prety much decided on aesthetics, that will go with it. Why did they choose this particular look? That's another question.
|
|
kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
|
|
posted February 28, 2015 06:15 PM |
|
|
|
lore/story should serve gameplay. Nothing else is acceptable. Ubisoft are not allowing this and that's where the problems come from. it's not that the aesthetics or lore or whatever are bad (though they mostly are) it's that lore and story control everything else rather than it being adapted to work with the gameplay. and that's terrible.
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted February 28, 2015 06:16 PM |
|
|
@Genya
Magic doesnt turn into sci-fi when you define it as some energy source, in some lore magic can be more straight forwardly mystical and in some lore it can be more chemical (witches with their boilers and their secret formulas), however, it's still different than sci-fi elements that are completely technological.
Everybody, including quoted definitions, describes your aliens as magical medieval-style creatures. Warcraft lore can be a little blurry at times when it comes to the line between technology and magic but it's definitely not sci-fi.
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
|
|
Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted February 28, 2015 06:25 PM |
|
Edited by Stevie at 18:29, 28 Feb 2015.
|
GenyaArikado said:
No, the sci fi of the Tempest Keep part comes from being an interdimensional travelling ship. The laser shooting crystals are actually from WoD. They're part of Karabor defense system
Stevie said:
Tempest Keep can be accurately described as an enchanted fortress.(...) In essence, it is a self-contained Dark Portal which operates on the same principle. (...) It doesn't bank and roll or shoot photon torpedoes.
Interdimensional travel doesn't make Tempest Keep a sci-fi ship just like it doesn't make the Dark Portal a stargate and a the Heartstone a transporter. And wowwiki says it's accurate to describe it as an enchanted fortress.
____________
Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
|
|
Sleeping_Sun
Promising
Famous Hero
Townscreen Architect
|
|
posted February 28, 2015 06:27 PM |
|
|
artu said:
... it's still different than sci-fi elements that are completely technological.
Not necessarily. There is some SF that is not focused on technology or that there is no technology at all. (The Handmaid's Tale)
Quote:
Everybody, including quoted definitions, describes your aliens as magical medieval-style creatures. Warcraft lore can be a little blurry at times when it comes to the line between technology and magic but it's definitely not sci-fi.
Stevie's quote actually proved that it is SF because of the motifs it uses.
____________
"The age can be wicked to those who walk alone. When I look into the Mirror, I see myself as I might become..." -Freya
|
|
|
|
This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
