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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted July 09, 2015 11:58 PM |
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Storm-Giant said:
Ubi has been involved since H5. They have the experience.
pretty sure the only authority figure left over in Ubi from the H5 team is Erwin, lol
personally I think the success of H5 can be pinned on Fabrice Cambounet and Romain De Waubert, I don't think it's a coincidence that the series suddenly turned to crap again as soon as they were fired and Erwin took over lol
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted July 10, 2015 12:07 AM |
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They're always bragging about their bible of Ashan and how they have pinned down their lore to easen new devs making games in Ashan, surely they would make something similar with regards of gameplay...right? Right?
Who am I kidding lol :[
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 10, 2015 12:14 AM |
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Edited by Stevie at 00:15, 10 Jul 2015.
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fuChris said:
It was before when we had fewer schools but ofc that is all in the past. Thanks to the glorious 7 school system there aren't enough spells to balance all tiers of all scools or even just some tiers.
Asha uses all and Asha has already used up all it has.
There's no direct correlation between having 7 schools and being unable to provide a good spell ratio. Magic schools don't affect how many spells you get in your guild, but at the very best which, if you think about unequal percentages (favored / unfavored schools) or specific mechanics (like specialization).
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted July 10, 2015 12:15 AM |
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Storm-Giant said:
They're always bragging about their bible of Ashan and how they have pinned down their lore to easen new devs making games in Ashan, surely they would make something similar with regards of gameplay...right? Right?
Who am I kidding lol :[
Erwan just smiles at these sentences.
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Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
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posted July 10, 2015 12:20 AM |
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Edited by Gryphs at 00:20, 10 Jul 2015.
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Storm-Giant said:
Ubi has been involved since H5. They have the experience.
Shame is Ubi does not really care unless it is about sticking to their dreadful lore.
EnergyZ said:
Erwan just smiles at these sentences.
He is always smiling....
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"Don't resist the force. Redirect it. Water over rock."-blizzardboy
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted July 10, 2015 12:39 AM |
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Gryphs said:
EnergyZ said:
Erwan just smiles at these sentences.
He is always smiling....
Indeed
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted July 10, 2015 12:40 AM |
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Stevie said:
There's no direct correlation between having 7 schools and being unable to provide a good spell ratio. Magic schools don't affect how many spells you get in your guild, but at the very best which, if you think about unequal percentages (favored / unfavored schools) or specific mechanics (like specialization).
It depends on the restrictions that are applied. If you go with 7 schools, then getting spells across all of them (even at various ratios) would mean you get a truckload of spells at each tier. Obviously, they've narrowed it down to just a few, with most at the base tier and least at the top.
If you accept that narrow focus as absolute, then the only way to increase the relative spell ratio per school at any given tier is by reducing the number of available schools.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted July 10, 2015 01:07 AM |
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Regardless of the number of schools, we shouldn't lose focus and talk only about the Magic Guild. Spells could also be obtained through:
- Magic Shrines.
- Magic Scrolls (h4 style, the hero can learn the spell from them).
- Magic Shops/Conservatories (selling Scrolls).
- Scrolls as rewards from Treasure sites (Utopias, Pyramids, any treasure site could award them).
- Scholars.
- Pandora boxes.
All of the above would make the Spell Hunt so much funnier and enjoyable. Additionally it would lessen the restrictions imposed on the Magic Guilds. And the best of all? I'm solely taking ideas from older HoM&M games, I bet it's possible to come up with new ways of learning spells outside of the Guilds.
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Raenus
Famous Hero
Grouchy curmudgeon
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posted July 10, 2015 02:17 AM |
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Edited by Raenus at 02:26, 10 Jul 2015.
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Storm-Giant said:
All of the above would make the Spell Hunt so much funnier and enjoyable. Additionally it would lessen the restrictions imposed on the Magic Guilds. And the best of all? I'm solely taking ideas from older HoM&M games, I bet it's possible to come up with new ways of learning spells outside of the Guilds.
Unfortunately it will be a short Spell Hunt indeed, with the current amount of spells in the game. Especially when you consider that the spell school you have GM access to will be your primary school, PLUS how the talent system for spells are set up it makes it so that you will be using almost exclusively the spells you spend points toward.
What is the point of a hunt when there are only like three spells you will ever use, with the guarantee that you will receive one of those spells with every mage guild level?
I don't know, it might be salvageable but I don't see how.
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Creature Quest: HaltWhoGoesThere
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted July 10, 2015 09:07 AM |
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Storm-Giant said:
Gryphs said:
EnergyZ said:
Erwan just smiles at these sentences.
He is always smiling....
Indeed
He reminds me of my old chemistry teacher, who is also smiling constantly, even when she said that during winter recess her grabdfather passed away...
Speaking of spell hunt, I hope that some battle sites will also offer a possibility to learn high-level spells but comeback of spell shop from ToE would also be cool.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted July 10, 2015 10:50 AM |
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I think they've solved the spell problem fairly well in H7 actually, the idea that you have a favored class that's always present and furthermore can choose a specialization for your Mage Guild is definitely one of the more ingenious ideas they've come up with. I could have wished for the option to postpone specialization to a time later than the building of the mage guild (at that point you don't always know what direction you will go with your hero), but that's a minor detail.
When that's said, I definitely feel there are too few spells in each school. Even after they tried to inflate the list by adding (more or less redundant) adventure spells in each class, it feels somewhat flat, and I'm not a fan of the single-spell top layer, even though I can see some advantages of this from a game-design perspective (possibly the biggest dice-roll for luck in H5 was the level 5 mage guild, and while that partially came down to balancing (Phoenix or Magic Mirror, lol?) it was rather disruptive for game). The number of spells obviously ties directly back to the number of spell schools - no matter how you twist and turn it, more spell schools will always mean fewer spells in each, unless you start to duplicate them H4 style, which is definitely the wrong way to go.
I could accept fewer spells in each school if it was because they had come up with some brilliant new school system that in itself added to the game, but in this case, it's entirely a question of lore: We need 7 magic schools because the lore says so, and as a result of that most of them are completely redundant because they do essentially the same. As such we end in a lose-lose situation where we both get too many schools which is bad for the skill system and get too few spells in each school. Just for the sake of preserving Erwan's lore. And that's just sad.
Anyway, about learning spells, I agree with Storm-Giant, adventure map buildings are no-brainers, and scrolls would also give a meaningfull use of the "Eagle-Eye" skill that they re-introduced, namely add also the ability to learn spells from scrolls.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 10, 2015 12:31 PM |
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You get that totally wrong, because you mistakenly think it's AVAILABILITY of spells that is crucial or even decisive, but that isn't the case, because the availability is the same for might and magic heroes, and the easier you can MAKE spells of certain schools to appear, the easier it gets for might heroes to make use of THEIR stats and abilities in that regard.
You can easily verify that by consider the following question: who is better of, a hero with 6 damage spells doing between 100 and 200 damage, or a hero with 2 damage spells doing between 800 and 1000 damage?
So the point is not, to get as many spells as possible, but to make a chosen few of them as powerful as possible, which is only purpose of strengthening spell effects via
a) stats
b) skill
c) ability.
Which means, if you get Chain-Lightning and have enough Power, and if the damage and ability bonus is high enough - by all means, spend the points to get it.
Of course, with the skill system requiring a hero to pick ALL abilities in order to unlock the biggie, the magic skills are screwed at the get-go, since for that to do, you'll either need certain spells of that school or you'll have to pick abilities you have no use for.
Go figure what's obviously not fitting well together.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 10, 2015 12:43 PM |
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I agree.
JollyJoker said:
Of course, with the skill system requiring a hero to pick ALL abilities in order to unlock the biggie, the magic skills are screwed at the get-go, since for that to do, you'll either need certain spells of that school or you'll have to pick abilities you have no use for.
I wonder what's the last build you played, cuz to my knowledge they backed off from that concept of ultimates requiring all abilities of their respective skills.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 10, 2015 12:52 PM |
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So what do you need now?
You need an ability to get the next higher skill - so Master ability would be the next logical reduction step.
Hmm, that would reduce the ability points needed to get GM ability to 7, so you could get the 3 allowed by spending 20 points, leaving 10.
Step into the right direction, but makes everyone running around with 3 GM abilities all the more likely on the other hand, which somehow sounds not less boring to me than before, albeit in a fairer fashion.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 10, 2015 01:33 PM |
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted July 10, 2015 02:31 PM |
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alcibiades said:
Anyway, about learning spells, I agree with Storm-Giant, adventure map buildings are no-brainers, and scrolls would also give a meaningfull use of the "Eagle-Eye" skill that they re-introduced, namely add also the ability to learn spells from scrolls.
I on the other hand would leave Scrolls as simply right-click-and-learn (if requirements are reached, of course) and leave Eagle-Eye as a perk of another skill, with different chances of learning a spell in combat depending on the spell level (say 100/80/60/40 for spell levels 1/2/3/4). It's a perk that could turn useful if you encounter spellcaster creatures such as Archmages, Pit Lords and the like while creeping (in Campaign too, maybe).
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leiah2
Known Hero
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posted July 10, 2015 03:56 PM |
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Guys, have you seen this? I can't describe how much better this is than the current emerald dragon model!!
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted July 10, 2015 04:22 PM |
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This is so awesome!
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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alexine
Known Hero
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posted July 10, 2015 04:29 PM |
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No more color coding thx
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We´re beautiful like diamonds in the sky ...
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The_green_drag
Supreme Hero
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posted July 10, 2015 04:36 PM |
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That emerald dragon is definitely better than what we have, and it's just a re skinned green dragon lol. Some tree branch horns instead of the grass head would make it awesome
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
