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| Thread: Is academy evil? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 16, 2014 10:26 PM |
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kiryu133 said:
all this mushy uncertainty would be fine if we had something to compare to, but all we have right now is the same: overall neutral/grey factions with a couple of extremists. they're all the same and that makes the whole thing so extremely boring and, well, grey. as in lack of any colour.
Spot on  Where's the fun if your necromancer is an aschetic defender of balance and order? Misses out on the bwahaha factor.
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Protolisk
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted November 16, 2014 10:34 PM |
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Elvin said:
kiryu133 said:
all this mushy uncertainty would be fine if we had something to compare to, but all we have right now is the same: overall neutral/grey factions with a couple of extremists. they're all the same and that makes the whole thing so extremely boring and, well, grey. as in lack of any colour.
Spot on Where's the fun if your necromancer is an aschetic defender of balance and order? Misses out on the bwahaha factor.
The middle of the "neutrality" axis is boring (true neutral) while the extremes are also pretty predictable and thus boring ("Chaotic evil"/"Lawful good"). It's between these poles and middle ground where all the fun happens.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted November 16, 2014 11:11 PM |
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Elvin said:
Haven being way judgemental, the light this and the light that.
Actually, when driving the religious angle too strongly, you end up with a faction that's totalitarian; it represses anything that goes beyond the dictates of the law, on a zealous level.
In terms in D&D, such a faction is Lawful Evil.
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Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
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posted November 16, 2014 11:48 PM |
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kiryu133 said:
Sylvan for good (if we get the "nature first" theme back).
Even a nature first attitude could be taken to the extreme. With elves attacking anyone who even damages trees.
I personally blame the neutrality of most factions on Ubisoft's attempt to make Heroes their Game of Thrones.
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Protolisk
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted November 17, 2014 04:23 AM |
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Gryphs said:
kiryu133 said:
Sylvan for good (if we get the "nature first" theme back).
Even a nature first attitude could be taken to the extreme. With elves attacking anyone who even damages trees.
I personally blame the neutrality of most factions on Ubisoft's attempt to make Heroes their Game of Thrones.
Gryphs said:
could be
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
Not all elves are going on a murder binge just because some guy leaned on one tree and stepped on the grass. That's not to say one guy has a vendetta against all those who left their steed's droppings lying around and didn't pick it up.
However, having some guys, but not all, with this vendetta makes for some interesting stories. By all means, Ubi, have a character on a one-elf-crusade against the evils of littering. 
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted November 17, 2014 10:22 AM |
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Protolisk said:
However, having some guys, but not all, with this vendetta makes for some interesting stories. By all means, Ubi, have a character on a one-elf-crusade against the evils of littering.
wasn't that the motivation for the nature guy in that h4 expansion?
OT: Academy could fit as both neutral (we don't care about what you're doing, just leave us out of it) or good (SCIENCE SAVES THE DAY) but i don't really want them evil even if it could work (give us ALL the slaves!). could be nostalgia to h3, but i like my factions being a certain way, makes it easier to understand them and makes for a more colourful world. right now ashan is nothing but a grey sludge that needs some colour through good vs evil.
too much uncertainty is dull.
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LRN
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 17, 2014 11:31 AM |
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Protolisk said:
Elvin said:
kiryu133 said:
all this mushy uncertainty would be fine if we had something to compare to, but all we have right now is the same: overall neutral/grey factions with a couple of extremists. they're all the same and that makes the whole thing so extremely boring and, well, grey. as in lack of any colour.
Spot on Where's the fun if your necromancer is an aschetic defender of balance and order? Misses out on the bwahaha factor.
The middle of the "neutrality" axis is boring (true neutral) while the extremes are also pretty predictable and thus boring ("Chaotic evil"/"Lawful good"). It's between these poles and middle ground where all the fun happens.
I'm with Protolisk. While I do expect certain factions having stronger tendencies to the bwahaha factor, as Elvin put it, clear-cut "good" and "bad" factions are predictable. Besides, I never saw what's so good about feudalists with religious overtones  .
So yeah, I want them all. The aschetic defender of balance and order, the herald of death who'll slaughter a town wholesale for "materials", the creepy hermit, the cruel lich tyrant, the aloof but mostly just necrarchy, the knight with shining armor and good intentions, the knight with shining armor and bad intentions, the defender of privilege, the defender of the weak, the crusading extremist, the professional warrior. Locking an entire faction to a specific alignment can be so confining...
That said, I understand Elvin's suggestion that we need something toi compare to. Isn't that Inferno's role anyway? Evil factions with capital E do tend to get the role of the final enemy though...how many times are we going to have to take down the ultimate threat in the form of the demon lord or the cackling necromancer?
Of course, while all this talk of grey versus clear-cut factions is intriguing, it always comes down to execution. A manichaeistic story of Pure Good versus Pure Evil is going to be poor storytelling. So will grey for the sake of grey, without proper justifications or logical reactions.
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LucPatenaude
Famous Hero
Owning all 7 Heroes games
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posted November 17, 2014 03:47 PM |
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Returning to the topic thread; The Wizards, good or evil?
First of all, it all started with humans being really adept with spell-casting mentally and, their physical strength was forced by adaptation of casting so many spells a given time. The more these humans practiced the art of spell-casting, the more their minds could enstrengthen their spell-power.
That is why, their spell-power is so high at the start of any possible scenario of the game called: Might and Magic-Heroes(any edition).
Only their human traits of the willingness to build, create and, improve their skills of resource crafting, makes them, a little bit awkwardly superior to their ex-brethren of the many duchies of the old type of human imperialism.
So...obviously...for the Haven factions, the wizards are, always, welcome as potential allies. Especially when, confronting the Orcs and, the wizards' outcasts of the Necromancers.
Church wise, within the many duchies of the Haven Empire, the use of artificial creatures is, highly considered, as somewhat Evil.
Only the general population of the Duchies' Cities will envision the wizards likewise. Not the Nobles and high ranked + well educated men and women of all the duchies would lower themselves so such narrow visions of fellow creative humans such as the wizards.
Although, Dwarves will not be a major contending faction in this title, I wish that some of the territories have a main dwelling or very small fort that consists mainly of level one and two of their core units as their only line of garrison's defence. The same could be for the lizardmen and gnolls as for their own main fort within a swampy territory. The choice of growing their village into a successful city is left entirely to the player, conquering the territory for the mines currently in view of interest for their own use.
Besides, is it not a game of destroying things and, or, rebuilding things according to our own purposes? I do think so.
Good day to you, all!
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted November 17, 2014 04:32 PM |
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That actually makes me consider something. How about making an explicit link to the environment and the level you can build your town? With the concept of area of control, that should be easy to do. Then instead of only resources you need to collect, you also need to have a certain control over the resources producers in the area of control. You could consider this as maintenance expenses for the town as a whole that are covered that way. This makes area control even more important because losing a mine to an enemy may hamper your town advancement. Keep in mind, losing a resource node shouldn't tear down a building in your town . It should only block you from advancing it (if otherwise available).
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Greenlore
Known Hero
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posted December 25, 2014 11:24 PM |
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I'd say Wizards are rather good than evil,but I'd say they are amongst the most neutral factions.
So if they divide the factions into good and evil,then I'd say academy would be good,but if you'd divide the factions into good,evil and neutral it'd fall more into neutral
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted January 13, 2015 11:37 PM |
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Danny
Famous Hero
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posted January 24, 2015 08:51 AM |
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So the Academy theme is almost a H6 Necropolis theme knockoff so I wonder who will be the "less good" this time around. With no Inferno in the picture, one of them have to be a bit evil. But maybe Stronghold will be baddest now?
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Kimarous
Supreme Hero
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posted January 24, 2015 09:05 AM |
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Danny said:
So the Academy theme is almost a H6 Necropolis theme knockoff so I wonder who will be the "less good" this time around. With no Inferno in the picture, one of them have to be a bit evil. But maybe Stronghold will be baddest now?
Oh come now, they aren't THAT similar. At least The Wizards Waltz doesn't suddenly turn into a Banzoo Kazooie track for the third quarter.
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Greenlore
Known Hero
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posted January 24, 2015 03:41 PM |
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Danny said:
So the Academy theme is almost a H6 Necropolis theme knockoff so I wonder who will be the "less good" this time around. With no Inferno in the picture, one of them have to be a bit evil. But maybe Stronghold will be baddest now?
I'd guess the role of the most evil faction in this game would probably go to the dungeon(especially since their place could have been taken by inferno too).
Aside from that we do have stronghold and necropolis as typical "evil" factions(ok stronghold is sometimes seen as neutral,but still more on the evil side) even though h6 depicted necropolis in a more positive way.
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LightAvatarX
Known Hero
Water,Earth,Fire,Air
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posted June 03, 2015 07:06 PM |
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Academy is not evil but the excactly opossite,the good faction of Ashan.
They made orcs to win the first demon invasion something which without them the demons would have won!Also helps all the time every faction.Because is the most rich kingdom which has more money and resources than all the other factions of Ashan together does not mean that is evil!
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted June 03, 2015 08:18 PM |
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LightAvatarX said:
Academy is not evil but the excactly opossite,the good faction of Ashan.
They made orcs to win the first demon invasion something which without them the demons would have won!Also helps all the time every faction.Because is the most rich kingdom which has more money and resources than all the other factions of Ashan together does not mean that is evil!
Remember, those are their accomplishments. Some may claim the morale depends on their goals, I say it is how to reach such goals. As you said, they did create orcs, but what happened next? Enslavement to the Falcon Empire.
I'd sooner see them as good, but snobbish. For you have Cyrus, who did not want to help Godric at the first moments of the invasion. Or the fact they put Godric to a ridiculously test to retrieve the Pendant of Mastery.
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LightAvatarX
Known Hero
Water,Earth,Fire,Air
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posted June 03, 2015 09:44 PM |
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About Cyrus,Academy,Haven and Sylvan had made the gray alliance in the fifth eclipse and they had common goals.They was something like union.When Cyrus(the father of sexy,so sexy Zehir)refused to the holy griffin empire to help hte have u inded that he and Acaademy may was fighting the deons in other location?They had work to do.And stupid Isabel fought Silver cityies destroying all the allies had beeen built just to revive her snowy husband,Nicolai and in the end she understood that Markal kidded her and all that was the plan of heresh as always.But I sabel then understood her wrong!
About orcs,someone had to built our flying cityies.None sayed they were slaves just making our towns!We made them,gave them life,we loved them but they had a goal to their life.They just made revolution!
So that are the bad things that Academy has done which I just deleted!
So ACADEMY IS THE BEST AND ORE GOOD FACTION IN ASHAN!
I wont even tell the thousand of goods she has done to the ashan!
HOLY ACADEMY YOUR NAME IS CLEAR!
ACADEMY BLESSES ALL!
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Macron1
Supreme Hero
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posted June 04, 2015 01:56 PM |
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Academy must be a faction of scientists, looking on any lifeform only as a tool for discvering world secrets. So ok with neutrality.
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LightAvatarX
Known Hero
Water,Earth,Fire,Air
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posted June 04, 2015 02:58 PM |
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Academy is not neytral!
Academy is very good!
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aetherrevival
Hired Hero
I am flammable
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posted June 15, 2015 05:12 PM |
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LightAvatarX said:
Academy is not neytral!
Academy is very good!
User LightAvatarX, your enthusiasm for Academy is.... admirable, but, if I may, also a bit blind. Academy may have helped win a crucial war against the demons with their orcish creation, but couldn't one argue that they've caused more harm in the end? They've unleashed a race of bloodthirsty half-men, now driven by the dangerous cause called 'vengeance' upon the whole continent of Ashan. Come on, we've all played the games and know how strong those guys are. Then we could bring up minotaurs and the lamasu. At what point does an intelligent race such as the wizards realize that most of their experiments are helping their enemies anyway?
That aside, experimenting on living creatures, especially human beings, is just wrong. Are you trying to tell me that, with their technology, they couldn't come up with an empowered artifact that could help overpower demons instead? Come on.....
All in all, I think the Academy is composed of selfish, ambitious people. Yes, I include them all, because I haven't noticed a single rebel wizard yet. They are devils trying to masquerade as sweet, scholarly angels.
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Deviant Aetherrevival art
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