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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: Should Ashan be scraped?
Thread: Should Ashan be scraped? This thread is 42 pages long: 1 10 20 30 ... 32 33 34 35 36 ... 40 42 · «PREV / NEXT»
Sligneris
Sligneris


Supreme Hero
posted April 07, 2015 04:51 PM

Avirosb said:
Sligneris said:
LW, please separate this post into paragraphs... It's unreadable...
I don't see what's wrong, it's nowhere near as cumbersome to read through as your average hero biography.
It's a second time I hear complaints about hero biographies, but I don't see what's wrong with them... I actually find them interesting as they give us more insight on these characters' backgrounds.

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War-overlord
War-overlord


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
posted April 07, 2015 05:38 PM

Sligneris said:
It's a second time I hear complaints about hero biographies, but I don't see what's wrong with them... I actually find them interesting as they give us more insight on these characters' backgrounds.

It tells people about Ashan, surely you see what's wrong with that.
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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
posted April 07, 2015 05:41 PM

War-overlord said:
It tells people about Ashan, surely you see what's wrong with that.


nah, I think it's just to do with how long winded and badly written some of them are lol
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Avonu
Avonu


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
posted April 07, 2015 06:02 PM
Edited by Avonu at 18:14, 07 Apr 2015.

Sligneris said:
It's a second time I hear complaints about hero biographies, but I don't see what's wrong with them...


I don't know...

Sandro Heroes 1-2 said:
Warlock/Necromancer Lich

Sandro Heroes 3 said:
Sandro first studied Necromancy under the tutelage of the wizard, and later the lich, Ethric. Sandro has seen nearly all of Enroth and Erathia Antagarich, and now serves "serves" Finneas Vilmar, leader of the Necromancers of Deyja.

Sandro Heroes 4 said:
Sandro's instinct to survive is almost as strong as his tireless ambition. His network of power in the old world was destroyed by the Reckoning, so now he has to start all over. Unfortunately, many of his old allies perished as well. But no one can say Sandro isn't up to the challenge.

Sandro Heroes 6 said:
If you want something done right, do it yourself, and I wouldn't let anyone else write my own biography!
So where shall we begin? I was born... some time ago, in the Bull Duchy. All through my childhood, I had these vivid dreams, these visions. My family believed I was meant to become a priest of the Light. Need I mention they were wrong?
When I was old enough, I decided to leave the Empire, its rigid laws and its blind faith, and find my way to the Seven Cities, driven by an unshakable conviction. There had to be something beyond Life and Death, beyond the Dragon Gods, beyond the reality of Ashan even. I only missed one person, my sister, the only one who understood me. Her passing was a decisive event that put me on the path I'm still following to this day.
I became a student at the Academy of Magic in the city of Al-Betyl. It was a time of great philosophical pursuits, when it seemed the purpose of wizardry was to reveal all the secrets of the universe. This is where I met a man named Belketh. You heard about him of course. He was a respected teacher, having learnt the craft from Sar-Shazzar himself.
In Belketh I met a kindred spirit, one that was seeking answers beyond the rigid dogmas of the so-called "Dragon Gods". As time went by, we became more than teacher and student, but friends as well. I was there when Belketh found the ancient texts, the seed of Necromancy. And this is where our paths started to diverge. For me Necromancy was a philosophy, a mere step on my quest for a greater knowledge. For Belketh, however, it became the "Truth".
We had found a way to free ourselves from Asha's cycle of Life and Death, and the boundaries of our mortal shells. And yet Belketh believed our purpose was only to serve Asha and her great design. This is when I realized I had been mistaken, and that ultimately he and I were not alike.
At first I thought his Spider Cult could be of some use to me. The cult was quickly on the rise, seducing Wizards afraid of their own mortality. I underwent the change as well, of course, although not by drinking the venom of the Namtarus. I gained my immortality by toying with a power more ancient than Asha and Urgash. I almost died, but I did not, and the loss of my flesh was little compared to the revelation I had.
Eventually, the other Necromancers discovered I was not a real believer and expelled me from their ranks. I spent the next years wandering the world, until my plans were ready to come into action...


A bit extreme but I hope you now get idea what's wrong with the newest Ashan heroes bios - they are too long and more like history book about them then the real short destription of a hero.

Let me try something:
Asad the Cat said:
Asad al-Kzin is charming, smart, haughty and a tad sadistic – pretty much what you would expect a giant cat to be. However, do not let is laidback and indolent attitude fool you: when the situation calls for it, Asad can become a remorseless and merciless killer in the blink of an eye. Of course, he'd rather kill only when it serves his own interests, but sometimes you just have to enjoy the small pleasures in life.


Asad al-Kzin behaves like a real cat: he can be a real predator when he must but he prefers to lie near fireplace and wait for a free meal.

____________
"When someone desires information, they come to me."
"Details are everything."
Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!

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Sligneris
Sligneris


Supreme Hero
posted April 07, 2015 06:08 PM
Edited by Sligneris at 18:09, 07 Apr 2015.

You know that it was his biography in Heroes 6 that first made me like Sandro?
I actually prefer the most recent ones as they actually have some information about characters rather than "look, this character is a Necromancer and he's cool".

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GenyaArikado
GenyaArikado


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
posted April 07, 2015 06:11 PM
Edited by GenyaArikado at 18:25, 07 Apr 2015.

Avisrob considers spending more than 10 seconds reading a nasty habit

verriker said:

yeah no worries, I know how you feel, I still have yet to see one good argument against bringing back Axeoth lol


I like Ashan. It's as good as your arguments and officially backed

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Avonu
Avonu


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
posted April 07, 2015 06:15 PM

Sligneris said:
You know that it was his biography in Heroes 6 that first made me like Sandro?
I actually prefer the most recent ones as they actually have some information about characters rather than "look, this character is a Necromancer and he's cool".

Good for you but also I wish you good luck if you have to read all heroes bios like Sandro's before you choose your hero.
____________
"When someone desires information, they come to me."
"Details are everything."
Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!

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Zombi_Wizzard
Zombi_Wizzard


Famous Hero
posted April 07, 2015 06:25 PM
Edited by Zombi_Wizzard at 18:26, 07 Apr 2015.

War-overlord said:
It tells people about Ashan, surely you see what's wrong with that.

Not to me. To me, what is says is not the problem. If you look at Avonu's post sbove me, the true problem reveals itself. Not the story itself. Not the Ashan part. It's the lenght. Who would bother to read all that?

In H2 it says, He's a necromancer and a lich. That's all I want it to say. And if it's wall of text I won't read. This is the reason I don't read any of hero biographies from H5 onward. I don't care what it says. It's just too damn long text.

This goes for unit bio's aswell. It's too much text. If it would be condensed in 2-3 lines it would be much better.

So here is H6's Sandro bio, corrected:

I am Sandro. Born in Bull Dutchy, my parents wanted me to become the Priest of light. But this was not enough for me, and I went to the Academy of Magic to study. There I met Belketh, who had similar interests as me, and together we discovered Necromancy. I also discovered Spider Cult, but did not agree with them and achieved immortality by my own means. This came with a price, as I nearly died and lost most all my flesh. So Necromancers discovered I'm not true beliver and exiled me. In exile I plan my revenge...

There. Two lines and a half of text. And all information is there. And this is still long. For me, it's as maximum lenght I can tolerate.

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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
posted April 07, 2015 06:30 PM

GenyaArikado said:
I like Ashan. It's as good as your arguments and officially backed


yup, well I like Axeoth which really was officially backed and made by the creator of the series, unlike the fanfiction Ashan, nanah nanah nanah lol
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Sligneris
Sligneris


Supreme Hero
posted April 07, 2015 06:37 PM

I still don't understand. If you don't want to read that, then don't read that. It's not like it's necessary for you to know all that, if you're not interested. I believe that the current format gives us some interesting, well-written backstories and really, I wouldn't want it any other way.

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GenyaArikado
GenyaArikado


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
posted April 07, 2015 06:43 PM

verriker said:
GenyaArikado said:
I like Ashan. It's as good as your arguments and officially backed


yup, well I like Axeoth which really was officially backed and made by the creator of the series, unlike the fanfiction Ashan, nanah nanah nanah lol


officially? backed by who?

Quote:
The original Might and Magic series officially ended with the closure of the 3DO Company. The rights to the Might and Magic name were purchased for USD 1.3 million by Ubisoft



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Zombi_Wizzard
Zombi_Wizzard


Famous Hero
posted April 07, 2015 06:58 PM
Edited by Zombi_Wizzard at 18:59, 07 Apr 2015.

Sligneris said:
I still don't understand. If you don't want to read that, then don't read that. It's not like it's necessary for you to know all that, if you're not interested. I believe that the current format gives us some interesting, well-written backstories and really, I wouldn't want it any other way.

The same stories that can be explained with a few lines of text. Like I said, it's not interest that drives me away from reading. It's the lenght. So, even if I am interasted, I don't bother to read it. If the bios were shoter, I would read them all, and know what heroes are about. But this way, it just keeps me from reading it. This is not a problem with a story, or the content, or Ashan, but a problem with implementation - a technical problem, same as a bad UI would be. I hope you understand better now.

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted April 07, 2015 07:01 PM

War-overlord said:
It tells people about Ashan, surely you see what's wrong with that.

Hehehe
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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
posted April 07, 2015 07:05 PM bonus applied by alcibiades on 07 Apr 2015.
Edited by verriker at 19:06, 07 Apr 2015.

GenyaArikado said:
officially? backed by who?


believe it or not, and I know this contravenes the legend of the Spider Cult but damn those fanatics, damn them, damn them all to hell lol,

long before Asha and Urgash hatched of the cosmic chicken egg in the timeless depths of the Void, even before their progenitor the Spider-Father Erwin Le Bretonnia lay claim to pen and fedora or his muse Chris Metzen before him,
the true creator of Heroes, Jon Van Caneghem, thought up Something Original, and it was good

and lo, in these heady halcyon days prior to the rise of the great outsource and the sweatshop Chinese dev, the great JVC conceived of the classic Heroes formula, and the RPGs and King's Bounty before that, and he and his followers birthed "the most popular HeroesŪ title of all time"

alas, the root of evil himself, Trip Hawkins of 3DO, brought down chaos upon us all, and upon his own,
and with the Offer of Minimum Wage our lord JVC knew well his reign had passed, and rode into the shadows, and so it was that the unholy marriage of Trip and Erwin birthed the cosmic egg, and of it, the eight-legged Spider Dragon with three legs and bad, venomous breath, and all her young

the legend now has been misappropriated and perverted, and many heresies arise of those who Settle For Less and drink of the spider venom kool aid, they who strive to defend the Inferior Gameplay and World, the bugged and glitched garbage, the Hello Heroes, even that wretch of Erwin they call Isabel,

but I forgive them, for that is all they have ever known lol
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LizardWarrior
LizardWarrior


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Age of erwins is over
posted April 07, 2015 07:09 PM

Verriker, you sir, deserve a QP
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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted April 07, 2015 07:16 PM

The post is brilliant.
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Sligneris
Sligneris


Supreme Hero
posted April 07, 2015 07:31 PM

You call the old universe 'Something Original', I call it a mix of everything cliche, lol.

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War-overlord
War-overlord


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
posted April 07, 2015 07:36 PM

@Galaad: It's good thing to be able to enjoy your own mockery.

@Avonu: I see what you did there.
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Iron from Ice.

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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
posted April 07, 2015 07:45 PM
Edited by verriker at 19:45, 07 Apr 2015.

Sligneris said:
You call the old universe 'Something Original', I call it a mix of everything cliche, lol.


lo, my frenemy ye Young Veiled Hero of the Spider, ever hasty to rush now and think later, to thine own discredit! doth ye not consider the Aspect Original be not only the Heroes formula itself, that which was Truly New and no invention of Erwin your idol lol,

but also that in thy bid to white knight the subversions of necromantic cliche at the hands of thy Spider Goddess, her vaunted moon eggs and her giant dwarf dwarf giants, you wallowing in these seas of forgetfulness overlook those shattered tropes rebuilt anew with the sweeping away of Kreegane Alienes,

now in thine own cliched fanfiction world of choice reduced to generic evil demons the likes of whom all have seen and heard and rolled eye at before, and so too their lord Kha-Beleth, he the Red Clone Of Sauron himself! lol
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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted April 07, 2015 07:48 PM
Edited by alcibiades at 19:50, 07 Apr 2015.

Sligneris said:
I still don't understand. If you don't want to read that, then don't read that. It's not like it's necessary for you to know all that, if you're not interested. I believe that the current format gives us some interesting, well-written backstories and really, I wouldn't want it any other way.

For me, the problem is not so much that they are there. In fact, I would be perfectly satisfied if they were just there for me to ignore. But no, that's not how it works. Suddenly sometimes during H6 period (and certainly after H5, which was subsequently completely retconned), someone* decided that all that was written had to be adhered to with a reference not dissimilar to how people treated the word of the bible back before Galilei and all that: If it's written the The Lore, then it is, and then we cannot change it. Never. Ever. No, we can't have skeletal liches, because it says in The Lore that liches are made by drinking Namtaru venom, and you can't drink if you're a skeleton. And no, we can't have bestial vampires because someone wrote something, at some point, about Vampires, and we all forgot whatever damn thing it was, but someone says it's in The Lore. And Necropolis must become Spiderpolis because it says so in The Lore. Etc. etc.

And that's when it starts to become a problem. So for me, the hero bios themselves can stay or rot in hell for all I care, but they are a symptom of a greater problem, namely that everything has to be written about in great and lengthy and boring detail, which then afterwards means we can't get rid of it, because now it is written and once it is in The Lore then we must abide by it!
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What will happen now?

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