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lokdron
Famous Hero
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posted October 04, 2014 10:04 AM |
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ChrisD1 said:
Royin said:
Innovation doesn't always translate into success. At least not in the gaming industry.
This video shows that people want the same old same old fairly well.
Tell that to ubisoft. Not me. Since they decided to create smth new and there is nothing i can do about it, i might as well follow them.
If i don't like it, well heroes 3 is still in my pc.
The video proves nothing and it has lots of inconsistencies so this guy can prove a point.
Bottom line, yes sometimes innovation is cool and sometimes it's not.
For us it happened. The end.
I'd rather see a consistent effort for this new universe (since it's here to stay) than seeing it bombarded by nostalgia patches everywhere (here and there is good, like mino's, eyes and mantis, but EVERYWHERE? exact same line up from h3? no leave some space for new stuff like the faceless, the game won't be ruined because of that)
If we don't like it, we are free to not play it anymore and shed our nostalgia tears into dragon shaped jars.
Chris I am calling it now when dungeon wins we are getting 4 elves instead of loads of monsters in the line up vote. XD
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted October 04, 2014 10:06 AM |
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alcibiades said:
ChrisD1 said:
alcibiades said:
I guess no matter what one focuses on, for me it would be fresh to have a Heroes game *without* Inferno for the first time since H2.
lucky you, this campaign will not about the demons!
so how about we see demons as just another race and not in their usual role? maybe see some of their internal affairs and their relations with other factions OUT of the eclipse? that would be fresh and inferno's line up is something to expect!
Well I wouldn't mind Inferno being in, if it was a question of Inferno yes/no. But it's not, it's a question of Inferno or Dungeon, and in that regard, I just hand down prefer Dungeon.
preference card! cool 
so i am lost about dunegon, what will their story be?
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 04, 2014 10:08 AM |
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Edited by Stevie at 10:08, 04 Oct 2014.
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ChrisD1 said:
preference card! cool
so i am lost about dunegon, what will their story be?
Raelag being seduced by demon power probably. Dungeon has quite a history of drooling over demon power...
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lokdron
Famous Hero
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posted October 04, 2014 10:12 AM |
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Edited by lokdron at 10:18, 04 Oct 2014.
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ChrisD1 said:
alcibiades said:
ChrisD1 said:
alcibiades said:
I guess no matter what one focuses on, for me it would be fresh to have a Heroes game *without* Inferno for the first time since H2.
lucky you, this campaign will not about the demons!
so how about we see demons as just another race and not in their usual role? maybe see some of their internal affairs and their relations with other factions OUT of the eclipse? that would be fresh and inferno's line up is something to expect!
Well I wouldn't mind Inferno being in, if it was a question of Inferno yes/no. But it's not, it's a question of Inferno or Dungeon, and in that regard, I just hand down prefer Dungeon.
preference card! cool
so i am lost about dunegon, what will their story be?
Well going by the spy master.
Dungeon
Maybe I should tell him a story of the Dark Elves of Ygg-Chall? Renegades, assassins, heroes – sometimes – who obey the enigmatic whispers of their Dragon-Goddess Malassa, and her children, the Faceless? Some of them might even have been involved in this conflict, trying to manipulate events from the shadows to weaken the Light.
Pretty much we are going to see what npc's constantly harping on about during H6. The faceless/dungeon etc manipulating everyone from the shadows to weaken the light.
Inferno
Or should I tell him a story of the Demons, Urgash’s spawns, enemies of all creation? After all, this is their assassination of Maeve that started all this. They won’t be a threat until the next Bloodmoon Eclipse, but their tales are worth hearing, as it is often the lust for power that puts one on the path of Chaos worship…
We know its not going to be an eclipse/blood moon story and going by that extract their story is most likely going to be like this for inferno.
From the look of it most likely how the children of Ashan fall to demon worship or why they end up selling their souls to urgash. How the demons exploit the mental and spiritual weakness of good men and women to make them go that far.
This is just speculation on my part going by what the spy master has given us.
edit:Chris they have already show us that in H5 Plus how could they show that story without any inferno assets? Same reason why they can't show us the dwarf vs dark elf conflict.
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted October 04, 2014 10:30 AM |
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Stevie said:
ChrisD1 said:
preference card! cool
so i am lost about dunegon, what will their story be?
Raelag being seduced by demon power probably. Dungeon has quite a history of drooling over demon power...
Moreover, he also used to be the leader of Soulscar clan which is known for it's affection towards Demons. But sincerely, I would also like to hear a story concerning Eruina. She is one of Tuidanha's children and yet she had just got a one Scenario mission in Heroes V. Story of Raelag's transformation would be good if we have both Dungeon and Inferno, so for such combination we would assumably have to wait for some Expansion Pack.
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Danny
Famous Hero
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posted October 04, 2014 10:37 AM |
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OhforfSake said:
Please remember any first installment of any successful series is innovative by itself. That sequels are more successful if they stay closer to the original ideas seems reasonable, because people like the original game for different reasons and once too much changes in the sequels, it's more likely the game will receive negative attention within its own gaming community, and spread from there. As such, like mention so many other times, a game like Heroes of Might and Magic IV would probably have received much more praise under a different name. But it wouldn't have sold as well, obviously. But its sequels potentially could.
That's because a lot of people are afraid of change and just want more of the same because it's "comfort". Personally I loved the drastic changes of H4 and I dislike H5 because it was a retread and fan service. Fortunately H6 was a step in the right direction and H7 also promises to introduce new stuff.
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Avonu
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
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posted October 04, 2014 10:41 AM |
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Pawek_13 said:
But sincerely, I would also like to hear a story concerning Eruina. She is one of Tuidanha's children and yet she had just got a one Scenario mission in Heroes V.
Then play MMX. You can meet Eruina after her kingdom from H5 scenario has fallen. She have a lot to tell about herself and her father (mentioned in her H6 bio).
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"When someone desires information, they come to me."
"Details are everything."
Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!
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Royin
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 04, 2014 11:03 AM |
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Edited by Royin at 11:10, 04 Oct 2014.
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ChrisD1 said:
Royin said:
Innovation doesn't always translate into success. At least not in the gaming industry.
This video shows that people want the same old same old fairly well.
Tell that to ubisoft. Not me. Since they decided to create smth new and there is nothing i can do about it, i might as well follow them.
If i don't like it, well heroes 3 is still in my pc.
The video proves nothing and it has lots of inconsistencies so this guy can prove a point.
Bottom line, yes sometimes innovation is cool and sometimes it's not.
For us it happened. The end.
I'd rather see a consistent effort for this new universe (since it's here to stay) than seeing it bombarded by nostalgia patches everywhere (here and there is good, like mino's, eyes and mantis, but EVERYWHERE? exact same line up from h3? no leave some space for new stuff like the faceless, the game won't be ruined because of that)
If we don't like it, we are free to not play it anymore and shed our nostalgia tears into dragon shaped jars.
I'm not sure what part of the video you found inconsistent but the numbers he presents show that people are more likely to buy what they know over something innovative. New ideas here and there probably won't hurt but if you distance yourself from your core and your roots too much the game loses its focus. Innovation won't make a bad game in the slightest, but it simply won't sell.
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lokdron
Famous Hero
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posted October 04, 2014 11:12 AM |
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Edited by lokdron at 11:15, 04 Oct 2014.
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Pawek_13 said:
Stevie said:
ChrisD1 said:
preference card! cool
so i am lost about dunegon, what will their story be?
Raelag being seduced by demon power probably. Dungeon has quite a history of drooling over demon power...
Moreover, he also used to be the leader of Soulscar clan which is known for it's affection towards Demons. But sincerely, I would also like to hear a story concerning Eruina. She is one of Tuidanha's children and yet she had just got a one Scenario mission in Heroes V. Story of Raelag's transformation would be good if we have both Dungeon and Inferno, so for such combination we would assumably have to wait for some Expansion Pack.
Pretty much if we want that story it will require inferno and dungeon something like that would most likely be told in the inferno story. Since their story looks to be about the corruption of the children of Ashan.
Its pretty much the same issue with the dwarf vs dark elf war.
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted October 04, 2014 11:30 AM |
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Royin said:
ChrisD1 said:
Royin said:
Innovation doesn't always translate into success. At least not in the gaming industry.
This video shows that people want the same old same old fairly well.
Tell that to ubisoft. Not me. Since they decided to create smth new and there is nothing i can do about it, i might as well follow them.
If i don't like it, well heroes 3 is still in my pc.
The video proves nothing and it has lots of inconsistencies so this guy can prove a point.
Bottom line, yes sometimes innovation is cool and sometimes it's not.
For us it happened. The end.
I'd rather see a consistent effort for this new universe (since it's here to stay) than seeing it bombarded by nostalgia patches everywhere (here and there is good, like mino's, eyes and mantis, but EVERYWHERE? exact same line up from h3? no leave some space for new stuff like the faceless, the game won't be ruined because of that)
If we don't like it, we are free to not play it anymore and shed our nostalgia tears into dragon shaped jars.
I'm not sure what part of the video you found inconsistent but the numbers he presents show that people are more likely to buy what they know over something innovative. New ideas here and there probably won't hurt but if you distance yourself from your core and your roots too much the game loses its focus. Innovation won't make a bad game in the slightest, but it simply won't sell.
he only brought the nintendo example. where nintendo is the lowest selling gaming company because of its repetitive use of the same stuff.
nintendo was literally saved by the 3DS alone. if the 3DS hand't had sold nintendo would go bankrupt.
The 3DS is something innovative. and he completely disregarded the mario 3D land because it was new... which sold massively. and only took the 2D platform numbers.
again you should tell these things to ubisoft not me.
ashan is already decided and rooted.
and the game is not that distanced from its roots. we still have some same factions,same creatures same heroes. in another universe. how much distanced do you think it actually is????????
i am saying this because most people here want heroes 3 part 2. ain't happening.
bombard the new universe with h3 lore and it's nor h3 (because it's a new universe) , neither the new universe anymore. it's something stuck in between. no room for the new stuff to show what it's about.
that is not cool at all. if we wanted for h3 part 2 then ashan shouldn't have happened. but guess what?
so either leave ashan take its course or petition for a remake of h3.
nomatter the sales,it was ubi's call. it's done now.
the key elements of the game still exist.
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Chagoux
Hired Hero
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posted October 04, 2014 11:37 AM |
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ChrisD1 said:
because most people here want heroes 3 part 2. ain't happening.
Yes, 15 years waiting and still hoping. Please show more respect on the matter. Thank you.
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted October 04, 2014 11:40 AM |
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Chagoux said:
ChrisD1 said:
because most people here want heroes 3 part 2. ain't happening.
Yes, 15 years waiting and still hoping. Please show more respect on the matter. Thank you.
i thank you dear sir
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Royin
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 04, 2014 12:37 PM |
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Edited by Royin at 12:55, 04 Oct 2014.
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ChrisD1 said:
he only brought the nintendo example. where nintendo is the lowest selling gaming company because of its repetitive use of the same stuff.
nintendo was literally saved by the 3DS alone. if the 3DS hand't had sold nintendo would go bankrupt.
The 3DS is something innovative. and he completely disregarded the mario 3D land because it was new... which sold massively. and only took the 2D platform numbers.
again you should tell these things to ubisoft not me.
ashan is already decided and rooted.
and the game is not that distanced from its roots. we still have some same factions,same creatures same heroes. in another universe. how much distanced do you think it actually is????????
i am saying this because most people here want heroes 3 part 2. ain't happening.
bombard the new universe with h3 lore and it's nor h3 (because it's a new universe) , neither the new universe anymore. it's something stuck in between. no room for the new stuff to show what it's about.
that is not cool at all. if we wanted for h3 part 2 then ashan shouldn't have happened. but guess what?
so either leave ashan take its course or petition for a remake of h3.
nomatter the sales,it was ubi's call. it's done now.
the key elements of the game still exist.
You're agreeing with him if you state Mario 3D Land sold well because that's essentially a remake of the Super Mario Bros. The 3DS isn't innovative at all, it's another DS with a 3D feature, which most people turn off as you have to keep your head in a perfect angle to the handheld to get the proper 3D effect. In fact talking about innovation of the 3DS they're releasing the "New 3DS" which is the exact same handheld with slightly better features and people are actually getting excited over it.
Let me put it different because Ashan obviously happened. Did the games sell well? In fact what will probably sell better, a Heroes 3 Remake or Heroes 7? Or another scenario, a Heroes 7 with a lot of iconic units or one without? The point he made in that video was that games that innovate usually get punished for doing so whereas games that are essentially remakes of their predecessors sell better and cost less to make.
Think about Pokémon. They add tonnes of new creatures every generation but it's always the same formula. Maybe in a different world but the story is always the same. You're a kid who abandons his mother to go on a roadtrip to slaughter innocent animals with your own feral friends. Later you stumble upon an evil organization called Team Very Evil who are up to no good and you must stop them because the fate of the world lies in the hands of you, an 11-year old. All the while you must collect 8 Gym badges, defeat the Elite Four and the Champion to become the Champion yourself. Maybe do something after that post-game. Bam 15m copies sold. New creatures get added all the time and out of those new creatures they usually get criticized for not being as good as the original 151. Even though the new Pokés are usually a lot better than the ones from the past generations in the competitive scene people tend to choose the creatures they've come to love and like over the new ones. Why? Nostalgia. The same reason some people were so opposed to Sylanna's Fury.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted October 04, 2014 12:45 PM |
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Look, I'm all for you guys having this discussion, but could you try to trim the quotes a little.
Try deleting everything that isn't the last comment you're replying on unless it is necesary for it to be included.
The quoting almost fills up a screen before we get to the actual point people try to make. Don't let this get out of hand. Also, you might run out of comment space if you keep this up.
Thank you.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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Royin
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 04, 2014 12:55 PM |
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted October 04, 2014 12:55 PM |
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Lots better.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted October 04, 2014 02:02 PM |
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Edited by ChrisD1 at 14:07, 04 Oct 2014.
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@Royin
in his example he said that mario 3d(mario 64, galaxy etc) sold less because of the 3d addition. and 2d gaming took the lead. and then he excluded mario 3ds because it's new so it was bound to sell.
i am a pokemon fan and i assure you pokemon X and Y adding 3d movement, mega evolutions (new stuff compared to pokemon gameplay) and making it all about competitive gaming(instead of rpg) attracted bizillions of new fans(i was in a forum and saw that) and it sold like crazy. because of innovation.
and because i was a member of a pokemon forum players tend to love the pokemon that bring you wins(garchomp,talonflame from newer gens)
some were nostalgic and used their previous ones, but they weren't butthurt that people like to play with newer ones, or that the franchise moved on.
nomatter the video, the sales etc, we are still in a new universe.
they are doing their best to incorporate stuff from the past and they actually do it and trying to stay consistent to the new atmosphere.
100% of something(nostalgia,innovation) isn't good. we have a fair share of nostalgia in the newer heroes games and innovation(hello ashan).
the game is still the same,(turn based,strategy,factions), sylvan is still about nature and magic (pixies,enchanted deers instead of enchanted horses) and elves since it's ashan again.
thinking that A SINGLE UNIT WOULD SAVE THIS GAME FROM CATASTROPHE is plain silly.
the game would sell more if we were to see unicorns or black dragons? really?
if you think nostalgia sells more go to ubi with a heroes 3.2 plan and sell it to them.
lets see how the new fans or people who want to be fans accept your nostalgia. the old fans are a limited number of persons. the new fans however will always be limitless. and they will always be a more enticing target group.
i will say again, a new player for this game wants to build his/her own nostalgia after some time, not continue yours.
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Stormcaller
Famous Hero
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posted October 04, 2014 02:34 PM |
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Quote:
i am a pokemon fan and i assure you pokemon X and Y adding 3d movemen
me as well! gonna get omega ruby and alpha sapphire? 
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What makes a King? Some say it is a birthright, while others call it a destiny.
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted October 04, 2014 02:51 PM |
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Stormcaller said:
Quote:
i am a pokemon fan and i assure you pokemon X and Y adding 3d movement
me as well! gonna get omega ruby and alpha sapphire?
duh? not thrilled about the megas but hoenn needed a lifting
btw do you have a a mewtonite Y for trade, in exchange for a mewtonite X?
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted October 04, 2014 04:08 PM |
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Edited by RMZ1989 at 16:08, 04 Oct 2014.
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You might as well go and make a thread about pokemons if there isn't one. No need to talk about it here.
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Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.
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