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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: Dungeon lineup
Thread: Dungeon lineup This thread is 19 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 · «PREV / NEXT»
JeremiahEmo
JeremiahEmo


Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
posted October 28, 2014 09:07 PM

What you guys smokin? Moderators are humans too. They should be able to express their opinions just like us.

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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted October 28, 2014 11:27 PM

Vokial has the right to express his opinion (agree/disagree, like/hate or whatever) like everybody else here.

HOWEVER, there's a big difference between expressing your dislike/hate about H7, or deliberately wishing (and voting) to make the game as worse as possible. That's what I don't like from his attitude.
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Minion
Minion


Legendary Hero
posted October 28, 2014 11:31 PM

"If I don't get what I want, then I'll make sure no one does"- is a really childish attitude... And the least thing this community needs.
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor

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mvassilev
mvassilev


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted October 29, 2014 12:14 AM

H3 Dungeon wasn't really that great. It wasn't bad, but it's not really better than Ashan's Dungeon, either. Now H1 Warlock - that was a town.
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Avirosb
Avirosb


Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
posted October 29, 2014 12:34 AM

Yep, that sure was a town all right

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RMZ1989
RMZ1989


Supreme Hero
posted October 29, 2014 11:17 AM

Vokial had these biased and childish comments already, I am not sure how you guys saw that just now.
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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted October 29, 2014 11:44 AM

Minion said:
And the least thing this community needs.

Every community needs some grim old-timer.
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NACHOOOO
NACHOOOO


Known Hero
Pessimistically optimistic
posted October 29, 2014 12:06 PM

VokialBG said:
War-overlord said:
Galaad said:
VokialBG said:
So I'll vote for the most crappy line-up.

Meaning the one featuring the most elfs ??

I agree, this seems paradoxical. You hate what Dungeon has become, so you want it to become worse? To what end?


Since the game is already a trash for me, let it be trash fully.

H3 copy and paste Dungeon will bring back my fate in HoMM7.


How is this guy a moderator? This is disgusting.
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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted October 29, 2014 12:22 PM
Edited by Galaad at 12:25, 29 Oct 2014.

I really don't get all the drama. You guys think you're all perfect all the time ? lol
H3 copypaste in terms of graphics and creatures is something wished very hard for a very long time by more people than you would think, petitions and requests all over the places for ages. Ubisoft has led disappointment to disappointment so far regarding this issue and IMO there is the source of drama.
We're all exposed to anger at some point.

Maybe we could quit the offtopic and get back to Dungeon lineup's discussion.
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War-overlord
War-overlord


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
posted October 29, 2014 12:35 PM

Galaad said:
Maybe we could quit the offtopic and get back to Dungeon lineup's discussion.

Should we realy though? Because in a few days, we'll very likely get a new topic on this discussing the pros and cons of the 3 proposed line-ups we get to vote on.
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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted October 29, 2014 12:47 PM

War-overlord said:
Should we realy though? Because in a few days, we'll very likely get a new topic on this discussing the pros and cons of the 3 proposed line-ups we get to vote on.

I don't know, how long will be those few days in accordance to HC's time-spectrum ?
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War-overlord
War-overlord


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
posted October 29, 2014 12:49 PM

Galaad said:
I don't know, how long will be those few days in accordance to HC's time-spectrum ?

What?
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!

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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted October 29, 2014 12:55 PM
Edited by Stevie at 20:20, 29 Oct 2014.

Hahahaha!! You think this is drama? Darling, you've seen nothing yet... The REAL drama is just about to begin. And I can't wait for it. The nonsense, the "Heroes is not Heroes without X" arguments, the flame wars, the cheating accusations I will bask in all of it, I will witness the torment of the Shadow Council and feast upon it. I will baptize myself in the flowing blood of the defeated, delighting my senses with their sorrowful wails, and I will grin and laugh maniacally at the hope of the victors being crushed right under their bewildered eyes. Ohh, the insanity, the agony, the tears and the anger! I will devour all of it and pleasure my existence once again.

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War-overlord
War-overlord


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
posted October 29, 2014 12:56 PM

Stevie said:
Hahahaha!! You think this is drama? Darling, you've seen nothing yet... The REAL drama is just about to begin. And I can't wait for it. The nonsense, the "Heroes is not Heroes without X" arguments, the flame wars, the cheating accusations I will bask in all of it, I will witness the torment of the Shadow Council and feast upon it. I will baptize myself in the flowing blood of the defeated, delighting my senses into their sorrowful wails, and I will grin and laugh maniacally at the hope of the victors being crushed right under their bewildered eyes. Ohh, the insanity, the agony, the tears and the anger! I will devour all of it and pleasure my existence once again.

Blood for the Blood God! Skulls for the Skull Throne!
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!

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RMZ1989
RMZ1989


Supreme Hero
posted October 29, 2014 01:15 PM

War-overlord said:
Stevie said:
Hahahaha!! You think this is drama? Darling, you've seen nothing yet... The REAL drama is just about to begin. And I can't wait for it. The nonsense, the "Heroes is not Heroes without X" arguments, the flame wars, the cheating accusations I will bask in all of it, I will witness the torment of the Shadow Council and feast upon it. I will baptize myself in the flowing blood of the defeated, delighting my senses into their sorrowful wails, and I will grin and laugh maniacally at the hope of the victors being crushed right under their bewildered eyes. Ohh, the insanity, the agony, the tears and the anger! I will devour all of it and pleasure my existence once again.

Blood for the Blood God! Skulls for the Skull Throne!

I support this comment!
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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted October 29, 2014 01:22 PM

I have no doubt that, one way or another, there'll be drama with Dungeon Lineup vote.

Prepare for the worse
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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted October 29, 2014 01:28 PM
Edited by Galaad at 17:53, 29 Oct 2014.

War-overlord said:
What?

Lol it was a time-joke, after a month of waitingvoting, the few days before we get to see more might seem long enough, or not.

Storm-Giant said:
Prepare for the worse

Sylanna's Fury already happened.
True though it is unable to predict Ubisoft's evil schemes, Blazing Glories ? I didn't see THAT coming
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GenyaArikado
GenyaArikado


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
posted October 29, 2014 07:20 PM

Galaad said:
I really don't get all the drama. You guys think you're all perfect all the time ? lol
H3 copypaste in terms of graphics and creatures is something wished very hard for a very long time by more people than you would think, petitions and requests all over the places for ages. Ubisoft has led disappointment to disappointment so far regarding this issue and IMO there is the source of drama.
We're all exposed to anger at some point.

Maybe we could quit the offtopic and get back to Dungeon lineup's discussion.


darling being able to express your disconfort in a PR/PC way is like, a requirement for the "Moderator" thing and he has been at this since H7 was announced.

Anyway this is not the thread for this

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dark-whisperer
dark-whisperer


Famous Hero
Darkness feels no mercy
posted October 30, 2014 07:42 AM

Oh cmon people, its not like devs would present us with one awful gamebreaking lineup so disgruntled inferno voters can vent their anger.
Anyway if someone is that hurt that he wants to ruin the rest of the game for other its his choice. Its childish, but its his right and I don't think there will be that many people who feel this way to significantly impact vote.

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jackson
jackson


Known Hero
Random Spirit Lover
posted October 30, 2014 09:03 AM bonus applied by alcibiades on 30 Oct 2014.
Edited by jackson at 09:46, 30 Oct 2014.

Ideas for Dungeon: My Thoughts, Hopes, and Fears

Table of Contents
I. Introduction
II. Overarching Design Choices
III. My Proposal, At A Glance
IV. My Proposal, Unit by Unit
V. New Possibilities
VI. This Thread Thus Far
VII. Conclusion

I. Ideas for Dungeon: Introduction

Introduction

Hi, everyone. I've typed up my thoughts, hopes, and fears regarding the Dungeon line-up. This post is long. There's a lot of writing and a lot of pictures. Please allow me to indulge with this. If you choose to read it, I hope you enjoy it and you're encouraged to respond.

Allow to begin with a short introduction.

I've been a fan of Heroes for a long time. I fell for both the patient strategy and the enchanting world full of legendary and mythological beasts.

I love Dungeon. I love the spirit of beastliness and monstrosity that surges through the faction.

My proposal is not intended to be perfect - in other words, it is by no means meant to please everyone - but it did go through quite a few different forms before reaching this incarnation, and I think the broad ideas are pretty good.

I tried to stick to what seemed realistically possible, but while I do believe my proposal is realistic, that is not to be confused with its likelihood. In other words, I believe that my proposal is realistic, but not at all likely.

I wish I could have had more time to write all of this. I also wish I could have posted it much sooner. I know that the vote is about to end. Nevertheless, I still wanted to post this.

Disclaimers & Requests

-Please be constructive and respectful.
-This is not about what I think is likely.
-My proposal includes multiple possible variations.
-All suggestions for unit roles, names, abilities, etc. are only brainstorming. I didn't give any of them unchangeable characteristics beyond the creature itself. They could have other names, fulfill other roles, etc.
-All of the images are merely vague representations of what I see in my mind. Vague being a very important word here.

II. Ideas for Dungeon: Overarching Design Choices

There are some overarching design choices that I believe are extremely important and that I'd like to focus on here.

Design Choices

-Less Purple: I think the community is more or less unanimous on this one, and it's really simple: don't overdo the color theme. It's a cheap and contrived way to make the units visually appear more connected to one another. Furthermore, don't force the color theme onto units on whom it makes no sense. For example, the upgraded Minotaur in H6. The Minotaur had a good design, and it was degraded when it was manipulated to fit the color theme.

-Mythological Beasts: This is really important to me. Heroes was based on legendary and mythological beasts. I'm afraid that Ubi is moving away from this aspect of the game, as it seems like they're introducing more and more of their own creations. Worse, in my opinion, many of them tend to be generic and lackluster. I, personally, can be okay with the shift from a theme-based Dungeon to a more race-based Dungeon, but, while I don't want to sound too melodramatic, if they shift from mythological creatures to generic "original" creatures, I think that would be a lot more marring to the original spirit of the series. I can definitely handle change, and even embrace it if it's good, but if Ubi continues to distance Heroes from its original mythological aspects, it will deeply tarnish the game for me. Please, Ubi, focus on mythological creatures.

-Don't Force a Contrived Thematic Style: This is an extension of the first one. Ubi hasn't only been guilty of overemphasizing the color theme of factions, they've also been guilty of over-stylizing the units in a faction. Having a unique style is by no means automatically bad, however it should be more subtle. Otherwise, as with the color theme, it just becomes a cheap tool that takes away from the dignity of the creatures. A good example of this is what they did to the Black Dragon. I'm not saying the design is bad - but it's a huge departure from traditional Black Dragons, and not necessarily for the better. While it's okay for a faction to have a thematic style, not every unit has to adhere so strongly to the style, especially when it's forced and contrived.

-Not Too Many Elves: I, personally, would be happy with only one dark elf in the line-up. However, I'm okay with a slightly greater focus on the core race, just so long as it doesn't take away too much from our mythological beasts. I hope for no more than two dark elves in the line-up. If there has to be more, then, as in my proposal, the third could be upon a monstrous Chimera or vicious Basilisk. But I still urge not too many elves.

-Better Matriarchy Design If Concept Is Included: This one is only relevant if Ubi decides to pursue the matriarchy concept. I'm okay if they decide to pursue it or decide to abandon it. However, if they decide to pursue it, I would like to see it thought-out and executed much, much better. Too be blunt, what they've had so far in terms of a matriarchy is a joke.

-Second Champion=Spell Caster: This one is also only relevant if Ubi makes the Black Dragon as one of the champions. If this comes to be, then I think it's important to have the other champion play a very distinct role from the Black Dragon: spell casting.

-Mixed Heroes: It's clear that a huge portion of the community would like non-human/non-elf heroes. Clearly dark elves would be most prominent, but a lot of people want more diversity. A lot of people, for example, myself included, want to see Minotaur heroes.

III. Ideas for Dungeon: My Proposal, At A Glance

Thank you for keeping all my disclaimers and requests in mind. So here we go.

Line-Up Possibilities

Core:
Assassin
Gorgon
Troglodyte/Chimera/Chimera Rider/Basilisk/Basilisk Rider

Elite:  
Minotaur
Chimera/Chimera Rider/Basilisk/Basilisk Rider/Hydra
Shadow Priestess

Champion:  
Black Dragon
Evil Eye/Faceless/other spell-caster

One Example

One of the possible variations could be like this:

Core: Assassin, Gorgon, Troglodyte
Elite: Minotaur, Basilisk Rider, Shadow Priestess
Champion: Black Dragon, Evil Eye

And in pictures:




Another Example

Another possible variation could be like this:

Core: Assassin, Chimera, Gorgon
Elite: Minotaur, Hydra, Shadow Priestess
Champion: Black Dragon, Evil Eye

And in pictures:




Some Notes on Choices

-The Faceless, Evil Eye, & Spell Casting: I know the Faceless is a likely candidate for the second champion spot, and I know that the Evil Eye as a champion is very possibly the most controversial suggestion I've made, but nevertheless, I think the Evil Eye could work. It could be made much more intimidating and cast powerful destructive magic, and if done right, then I, personally, would prefer it to the Faceless. Having said that, I left it open for other spell casting champion candidates - preferably with mythological roots.

-The Chimera & Basilisk: The Chimera and Basilisk could both be with riders or without riders. For me, that detail isn't important, so long as the rider doesn't eclipse the beast. The whole point of including a rider into Dungeon, in my opinion, would be to add a third dark elf but not at the expense of a mythological beast.

-The Assassin & Gorgon: I would like to see both the Assassin and the Gorgon (Medusa) as ranged units, and I think that's realistic, especially since they would both be fulfilling this role in distinct ways. However, neither has to be ranged. The Assassin, in particular, could potentially be designed to fulfill many different roles.

-The Gorgon & Troglodyte: As a note to anyone who has missed the earlier comments, neither the Gorgon (Medusa) or the Troglodyte has been confirmed, but they have both been stated to be, at the very least, vaguely possible - in other words, they are realistically possible, though none of should be getting our hopes up.

-New Units: Many proposals have lacked new units, which means their likelihood is extremely small. I say this because Ubi seems to adhere to a few strict rules for all their factions: there must be at least one unit of the core race, at least one beast, at least one female unit, and at least one new unit. Dungeon has a lot of well-loved units that people don't want to lose or want to see return. The only new unit that I included is the Chimera, and it's one of the optional ones. Like I said earlier, I don't think any of the variations of my proposal are at all likely, though I can dream.

IV. Ideas for Dungeon: My Proposal, Unit by Unit

In More Detail

Core Unit #1: The Assassin

(My Source)

Possible Names:
Scout -> Assassin
Assassin -> Shadow Assassin
Assassin -> Shrouded Assassin
Novice Assassin -> Master Assassin

Possible Roles:
Tactical Ranged - Fragile and dealing low damage but with useful debuffs and evasive abilities.
Strike & Return - Making fans of the Furies happy.

My Thoughts: I'm sure there will be at least one Dark Elf core unit. And I really hope there's only one. And for that one, I think an emblematic and well-liked choice would be the Assassin. It's also a very versatile unit, with a lot of potential designs. I would like it to be ranged, but it doesn't have to be. If it were ranged, I like the idea of its attack power being small but its attacks debuffing the enemy, possibly with a small debuff to its speed and defense, but with only the defense debuff able to stack, so that there's a choice to focus on lowering one enemy's defense or slowing down multiple enemies. I also like the idea of the unit being quite fragile, but fast, and able to move while attacking, so you have to move around and you have to be careful. Perhaps being able to move while attacking would be too powerful in this case, but this is just brainstorming.

Core Unit #2: The Gorgon

(My Source)

Possible Names:
Gorgon -> Royal Gorgon (an ode to Medusa Queens)
Gorgon -> Medusa (in order to create/enforce an in-game connection between the two)

Possible Roles:
Offensive Ranged - A second ranged unit. This one being the damage dealer.
Versatile Ranged & Melee - Has a small supply of ranged attacks that run out quickly, but has solid melee capabilities for once they run out.
Crippling Melee - Melee with a classic Stone Gaze ability.

My Thoughts: I definitely love Medusa. It's clear that a lot of people love Medusa. If it's possible to return them to Dungeon, it would likely be a good decision. I would prefer that they're called Gorgons simply because that's what Medusa was.

Core Unit #3a: The Troglodyte

(My Source)

Possible Names:
Troglodyte -> Abyssal Troglodyte
Troglodyte -> Empowered Troglodyte
Troglodyte -> Troglodyte Warrior

Possible Roles:
Melee - A straight-forward melee unit. Valuable for being the only melee core (assuming that the Assassin and Gorgon are both ranged).

My Thoughts: Probably less unanimous than with the Medusa, but nevertheless, it seems like a lot of people would love to have the Troglodyte return. I would make it more muscular and powerful-looking, though still very much resembling its old self - an underground amphibious humanoid without eyes. Immunity to Blind could be a simple ability that both the basic and upgrade versions have.

Core Unit #3b: The Basilisk / The Basilisk Rider
(see below)

Core Unit #3c: The Chimera / The Chimera Rider
(see below)

Elite Unit #1: The Shadow Priestess

(My Source)

Possible Names:
Shadow Priestess -> Shadow Sorceress
Shadow Sorceress -> Shadow Matriarch

Possible Roles:
Pure Debuff Caster - Casts powerful debuffs.
Primarily Debuff Caster - Casts powerful debuffs and some offensive magic.
General Caster - A well-rounded caster.

My Thoughts: Just as I think there will be at least one (and hopefully no more than one) Dark Elf unit in core, I also think that there will be at least one (and hopefully no more than one) in elite. And for that one, I think the Shadow Sorceress would be a great choice. As far as appearances go, she really shouldn't be sexualized like her H5 incarnation though. I'm sorry for repeating that. I just can't say it enough.

Elite unit #2a: The Basilisk / The Basilisk Rider

(My Source)

Possible Names:
Basilisk -> Greater Basilisk
Basilisk Rider -> Greater Basilisk Rider

Possible Roles:
Support - Has useful skills that impede the enemies and aid the damage output of its allies.
Charger - Strong and viscous cavalry.

My Thoughts: I'm sure a lot of people would be really happy to see the Basilisk make a reappearance and it fits Dungeon wonderfully. I, personally, would choose the Basilisk over the Manticore. I'm not against the Manticore, though my preference is still clear. I see the Basilisk as an aid to the Minotaur. It could have a consistent petrifying glare that immobilizes the enemy for a turn and causes the petrified enemy to receive extra damage if attacked. This would give you high incentive to use your Basilisks and Minotaurs together, as Minotaurs would be your heavy hitters. I just like this idea, though I know it would probably be overpowered. The glare could possibly be an activated ability. Another possibility is that the Basilisk has an aura that intimidates, terrifies, and ultimately lowers luck and morale (both of which wouldn't affect the Minotaur). Giving the Basilisk a dark elf rider would be a way to - if we're going to be forced to have any more than two dark elves in the line-up - have a third dark elf without sacrificing a mythological beast. If it were to have a rider, the rider should not overshadow the beast.

Elite Unit #2b: The Chimera / The Chimera Rider

(My Source)

Possible Names:
Chimera -> Dark Chimera
Chimera Rider -> Dark Chimera Rider

Possible Roles:
Support - Has useful skills that impede the enemies and aid the damage output of its allies.
Charger - Fast and viscous cavalry.

My Thoughts: The Chimera is great for Dungeon. It's a crazy beast, like the Manticore, but even crazier. Like the Basilisk, I would personally choose the Chimera over the Manticore. But this is assuming the Chimera's design is one I'd be happy with, as I could see the design varying wildly. I'd want the beast to be both monstrous and to convey a certain glory and pride. Also like the Basilisk, I could see the Chimera playing a primarily supportive role, possibly helping its allies achieve their greater potential by affecting its enemies with debilitating venom. I could also see it being a charger, especially if it were a core instead of an elite, and thus being in juxtaposition to the Assassin and Gorgon. Just like the Basilisk: Giving the Chimera a dark elf rider would be a way to - if we're going to be forced to have any more than two dark elves in the line-up - have a third dark elf without sacrificing a mythological beast. If it were to have a rider, the rider should not overshadow the beast.

Elite Unit #2c: The Hydra

(My Source)

Possible Names:
Hydra -> Ancient Hydra
Subterranean Hydra -> Deep Chasm Hydra (to emphasize distinction with swamp hydras)

Possible Roles:
Tank - Useful abilities such as "Attacks All Adjacent Tiles," "Unlimited Retaliations," and "No Enemy Retaliation" make the Hydra a formidable foe.

My Thoughts: Dungeon is, in part, known for its monstrous beasts, and so, in this way, the Hydra fits very well. But it fits ever better - a lot better - in a swamp faction (H3 style - not the nagas) and so I really hope we'll see it someday as the perfect and rightful champion to a faction in the spirit of H3 Fortress.

Elite Unit #3: The Minotaur

(My Source)

Possible Names:
Minotaur -> Minotaur Champion
Minotaur -> Minotaur Lord (an ode to Minotaur Kings)

Possible Roles:
Strong Melee - One of the best elite melee units in the game.

My Thoughts: A classic and personal favorite. I'm glad the Minotaur is guaranteed. I hope we'll have a true Minotaur this time around. In H5, we had Minotaur slaves, and in H6, we had purple Minotaurs, and so, in my opinion, both were tarnished. I hope they'll deliver one without mistakes this time.

Champion Unit #1: The Black Dragon

(My Source)

Possible Names:
Red Dragon -> Black Dragon
Grey Dragon -> Black Dragon
Shadow Dragon -> Black Dragon

Possible Roles:
Powerful Flyer - The most powerful champion in the game.

My Thoughts: The Return of the Champion. I hope they'll make them more mighty and traditational. The last ones were skimpy and the style was overdone and felt contrived. I think the Black Dragon should be one of strongest champions in the game. It would be expensive and with low population to match its raw strength.

Champion Unit #2a: The Evil Eye

(My Source)

Possible Names:
Demented Eye -> Evil Eye
Murderous Eye -> Evil Eye

Possible Roles:
Caster - A powerful caster (possibly with both crowd control spells such as Blind and offensive spells such as Chain Lightning).
Ranged - A powerful ranged unit.
Caster and Ranged - Both worlds.

My Thoughts: Making the Evil Eye a champion is probably the most controversial of my suggestions. I think it could work. Make it big, ferocious, and frightening. Have it wield powerful magic. I don't think it needs to be a ranged unit if it's casting immensely destructive spells. Do you remember the Psychic Elemental from H3? The Evil Eye's melee attack could be similar. Imagine the huge, terrifying Evil Eye floating on the battle field, casting destructive magic. When the enemies come to confront it, it attacks all the enemies around it simultaneously in a surge of power.

Champion Unit #2b: The Faceless

(My Source)

Possible Names:
Faceless -> Ancient Faceless
Faceless -> Faceless Puppeteer
Faceless -> Faceless Mastermind

Possible Roles:
Powerful Caster - A powerful caster with lots of tricky spells.

My Thoughts: In all honesty, the Faceless are far from my first choice for a Dungeon champion. However, I won't be surprised if we get them. At least there's a good chance they'll be spell-casters. I hope they design them differently if they do include them.

V. Ideas for Dungeon: New Possibilities

As I mentioned earlier, all of Ubi's line-ups seem to strictly adhere to a few rules: there must be at least one unit of the core race, at least one beast, at least one female unit, and at least one new unit. I'm pretty nervous about that last one. I don't trust their choices for new units and any new units would be at the expense of classic, well-loved creatures.

A huge part of why I don't trust them is because they seem to be introducing more and more of their own creations into the game. Their creations, in my opinion, tend to be uninspiring. And Heroes was always a world of legendary and mythological creatures. The more they mess with that, the more they mess with the original spirit of the series.

I definitely played around with my proposal a lot before reaching this incarnation. In the end, the Chimera is the only new unit I included. I think there isn't much room for new units in Dungeon's line-up as there are already so many loved units that people don't want to lose or that people want to return at long last. However, even though I didn't include any these in my proposal, I have made a very brief list of some new mythological creatures. The list is very small and is by no means complete. It's just a tiny handful of possibilities, meant, like most of this, more for brainstorming than anything else.

Possible New Mythological Creatures

Amphisbaena - A long, slender serpent with wings and heads on both ends of its body. In mythology, the creature was born from blood that dripped from Medusa's severed head. There are many variants to its name, including "amphista" which may be more palatable though I think "amphisbaena" is good. I see this being a very magical unit.

Badb - From Irish mythology. A war goddess who takes the form of a crow. It could be shape-shifting unit, one form being that of the war goddess, who can cast powerful spells, and the other form a giant crow made of shadow, who can soar to the enemy and curse them with its aura while attacking them.

Bánánach - A mysterious, unearthly woman who haunts battlefields. I see it as either a caster or a veiled warrior with debuffing auras and attacks. Badb is actually an example of a Bánánach, and the two ideas could potentially be combined or kept separate.

Barguest - A demonic black dog from English folktales. It has been described with many different appearances. Though generally as a large, ghostly black dog, it can also appear as a bear or a headless man, among other things. I see it as a giant beast, vaguely wolf-like and bear-like, made of shadow. It could possible be wrapped and dragging chains. It's intended to be very powerful and destructive.

Echidna - The most famous of these. A snake-woman. Echidna gave birth to many monsters, including the Gorgons.

Herecgunina - A powerful evil spirit. This is an evil spirit in the mythology of the Winnebago Native Americans. It is a counterpart to the Earthmaker. This could be a great new demon for Inferno, but Ubi doesn't like using mythological demons for some reason... I could see this working in Dungeon too, almost like Dungeon's version of the Efreet, though not quite. There could be a lot of creative liberties taken on this unit, both in terms of appearance and function.  

VI. Ideas for Dungeon: This Thread Thus Far

I thought it might be fun to see everything that's been suggested so far, so I went through this thread again and tried my best to count up all of the suggestions. Yes, it took a long time.

40 people (including myself) contributed to this. All units suggested by someone were included, but the same unit proposed multiple times by the same person was counted only one time.

I hope you find these numbers fun to look at, but it's very important not to take these them  too seriously.

The Results

-Assassin (31)
-Basilisk (3)
-Black Dragon (33)
-Blood Fury (13)
-Chakram Dancer (7)
-Chimera (3)
-Dark Raiders (7)
-Evil Eye (31)
-Facehugger (2)
-Faceless (22)
-Guard (2)
-Hydra (30)
-Manticore (28)
-Medusa (18)
-Minotaur (35)
-Shadow Panther (3)
-Shadow Sorceress (31)
-Troglodyte (15)

There Were Eleven Beasts That Were Suggested Only Once

-Dark Hounds
-Drake
-Efreet
-Fungus Hulk
-Gnome/Leprechaun
-Humanoid Raptors
-Nightmares
-Shadowbane
-Slime
-Spider
-Werewolf

There Were Two Dark Elf Units That Were Suggested Only Once

-Amazon
-Horseman

The Most Popular Suggestions

-Minotaur (35)
-Black Dragon (33)
-Assassin (31), Evil Eye (31), Shadow Sorceress (31)
-Hydra (30)

VII. Ideas for Dungeon: Conclusion

I'm simply sharing some final words here. There is no objective conclusion, though it certainly seems like the Minotaur and the Black Dragon should be included. We already know that the Minotaur is guaranteed, which is great. I hope to see the Gorgon (Medusa) and the Troglodyte return. I very strongly urge everything that I said about overarching design choices: (1) less purple, (2) use mythological beasts, not generic creatures created by Ubi, (3) don't force a contrived thematic style onto a beast (i.e. the Black Dragon in H6), (4) don't use too many elves, (5) create and execute a better matriarchy if the matriarchy concept is pursued, (6) if the Black Dragon is included, make the second champion a spell-caster, and (7) have greater hero diversity, including non-human and non-elf heroes, such as Minotaur heroes.

And there you have my take on the Dungeon line-up. Thank you for allowing my indulgence and I hope you enjoyed the read.

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