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Elvin 
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 28, 2015 08:29 AM |
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Playing with Sinitar, I loved assassin creeping. He already starts with luck but also prime and fortune so you can get some pretty sweet odds for critical attacks. Better yet, the hero confusion ability allows you to attack without fear of retaliation against most units and the racial mostly favours melee once you go expert.
That said, stalkers with archery are imba. They ignore 100% of enemy armour and that makes them champion slayers. Kind of ok on their own, ridiculous when coupled with archery's no range penalty. They should either get a x% armour reduction like H5 arcane archers or reduce the area in which they ignore 100% of the armour like H5 marksmen. I favour the former.
I also hate how chance-based effects are based on luck only. It's like they are luck-exclusive abilities for crying out loud. Easy to trigger with a lucky hero but they won't trigger much otherwise and just about never when facing them as neutrals. Lame.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Ankhes
Hired Hero
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posted August 28, 2015 09:01 AM |
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Edited by Ankhes at 09:29, 28 Aug 2015.
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My impressions so far:
1.Graphics - i really hate it. It is really puzzling to me that I still prefer Homm2 and Homm3 graphics to any other Homm game. I never liked Homm5 wowish artstyle nor Homm6/7 epic(cheesy) fantasy but at least I kinda liked Homm5 world map because colours were saturated and in Homm6/7 it all seems so bland and small. Like dragonsteel looks so similar to wood and some crystals dont remember the name looks like ore. On top of that hero movement is so clunky.
Combat is even worse imo. I really don't understand why it is so hard to make a combat that actually takes whole screen. What do I mean by that? Now i have to be zoomed out to see whole battlefield, everything is super small and a lot of units looks very similar to each other then. But hey at least battlefield takes then like 30% of the battlefield and I can admire mountains, bushes etc. that takes the rest of screen space. On top of that animations feel very out of place - moving, attacking, getting hit. If you ask me I would take hand-drawn 2d graphics even if it would mean that there will be no animations at all. I really couldn't care less about those microids with clunky animations and would rather see well-drawn 2d models. It would also cost a lot less and would allow them to focus on producing a lot more content - factions, neutrals, map objects and so on.
In the past Homm games had coherent artstyle. All of the units/races/world was magical - eerie like. Now I feel like they try to please everyone - for example if you look at the races you can easily tell that for example they created a lot of races so that people from different part of the world could equate them with different races(like asian nagas, american indian stronghold etc.). In the end I think they don't please almost anyone. I think similar thing happened to Diablo 3 - they went for gothic mixed with cartoonish and what we get weird artstyle.
2. Combat gameplay - it is not that bad but there are things that are really annoying.
Battlefield size - it is somewhat small, it makes a lot of units feel very similar to each other. If you think about Homm2/3/4 there were a lot of units that were very slow and had to be hasted or it would take a lot of time for them to move through the battlefield(zombies, hydras, ogres). But their stats were a lot better than stats of the units from the same tier. In Homm5 battlefield was similar to the one that we see in Homm6/7 BUT what made huge difference was initiative system which allowed faster units to act more often(it allowed to create completely different units of the same tier when it comes to playstyle - like hydras vs unicorns). In homm6/7 every creature act once per turn and from what I have seen like 90% melee creatures have 5 movement speed and then some +/-1. There are no extremes like in Homm3 where dragonflies could flew twice the distance of gargoyle and 4 times further than zombie.
In homm7 what makes it even worse is that in Homm5 and Homm6 units had a lot of abilities and in Homm7 most of them are really lackluster. Even units which could potentially have some unique playstyle like Strider are so boring.
3.City management - I think it is ok, could use some tweaking since some of the buildings are too cheap. What I don't like is that buildings that do increase the growth of the units increase it way too much. It reminds me of Homm6 with 100+ cores pre month 2. It is a bit better in that regard than it was in Homm6 because there are no spammable ressurect type spells/skills. I would prefer these extra growth buildings to not double the growth. I really like the idea of trying to preserve as many units as possible and it is not rly the case since it doesn't really matter whether you get into the month 2 with 150 130 and 100 of cores or 138 124 and 96 since you get masses of them so quickly. Overall I really like how city management evolved since Homm2/3/4 where I think it was pretty bad.
4. Skills and spells - didn't play enough to form my own opinion. I do like that there are quite a few utility spells which provide some nice strategical options.
Overall i might seem very harsh but honestly I'm not super impressed so far BUT I do believe it still can be a very good Homm game simply because if it really is easily modded then hopefully we will se a lot of great mods. Also if the AI is not completely retarded like it was in Homm6 + the addition of random map generator ans sim turns can provide a lot of relayability both in single player and multiplayer. In the end I do still have some hope.
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rohirrimelf
Hired Hero
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posted August 28, 2015 09:52 AM |
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Experience closed beta (about 17 hours of playtime) Played 2 full games on the 4 player map. And experimented a good bit on the 2 player map.
Part 1 Game Balance
Broken
stack defence (haven faction)
Game plan: Dont bother about offense. Stack defence as much as possible. Pick the hero "Orna". Use the spells heal and celestrial armor from light magic. Get the full light magic tree to the highest tier ability. The last perk gives a lot of buffs to celestrial armor and could potentially cover 6 of your units. Most of your army in one spell. Grab as much defence as you can (paragon: armor) (righteous: united we stand), + defence and defence artifacts.
Within 1 month i had kill/death ratio`s of about 100:1. after 2 and a half month i played battles with no losses against enemies who outmatched me 5 to 1. You could do this with core units against elites and still win gloriously.
High defence will soak up most of the damage. Use Heals and celestial armor to restore losses and buff your units with armor and defence. Battles can last far longer but in the end you will win gloriously.
Legionaires are best to block off the patch to your ranged units/spellcasters. Split them in 2 or 3 stacks. Just use the defence ability and dont bother to attack. Don`t bother to build any wolves as their defence is to low and they will die/loose you money.
Broken/almost broken early game
fire magic:
Pick Gloria from the academy faction. Why? +6 magic when casting fire spells.
First step. Gain xp and rush fire wisdom (another +5 fire magic).
Game plan. Hide in the corner and blast your enemy with fire bolts. Severe opponents on hard difficulty will stand no chance. Some losses are expexted against casters/ranged opponents. So avoiding them untill you have enough xp/army size could be a good plan. Or accept the losses. Keep playing this tactic untill you reached a position you can steamroll the map and gradually expand your skills/tactics to adopt for the late game.
A simular plan with minasli and water wisdom could get you into trouble if you unlock the spells blizzard and fog shroud as they do no damage. (with magic guild 1)
Diplomacy
Simular with earlyer titles. Pick a leader which could abuse the diplomacy skill tree. + build the Emassy as haven. The unlocked perks dont have much synergy with units that join for free other then saved gold. But +35% change for free units (try to find units that match your own faction will make doom stacks quickly.
Part 2 overall experience
Turn times:
Set simultanious when creating a new game.
On 1v1 you will encounter little problems. The 4 player or up is what really gets you running into long turn times. On the first turn they are awfull. Up to a minute on a decent processor. ( I currently run the still very able i7 2600k). About twice what i can accept myself.
When the game game progresses the turn times will take 2 to 3 times longer from my experience. My advice if you want to play on is. Do something that will occupy you during the load times. Watch youtube video`s, music. Whatever to keep from waiting.
Crashes
From my experience after playing for 2/3 months the game stops working when you load before a new battle. This can happen 1 out of 2 games. In the early game this happens far less frequently but it will happen.
On 2 occasions my save game seems to be so corrupted to a agree that you could not load it again.
Graphics
The beta is using dirextx 9. I`m hoping to see at least dirextx 11 at release. The edges seem to be so vague to a point that you want to zoom in all the time.
AI
Melee units running away from the action. Getting slaughtered by ranged/spellcasters.
The AI has not a clear idea where to strike where it hurts. Does not bother to walk around to hit the archers/spellcasters in the back. Or walks into unit abilities/retaliations that will decimate him.
Often enemy heroes will charge towards your capital whenever they find that the path has been cleared. It will to some degree avoid battles where it is bound to loose but will get outsmarted as a child. The more i see about the ai the more dissapointed i get. But then again the 2nd beta made a noticible improvement to the first beta and is on the right track.
Skillwheel
To a agree the skillwheel restricts you from playing the kind of hero you want to be. Ever want to specialise your magic hero into fire/air or water magic as an academy hero. I`m sorry but you can`t reach master/grandmaster level. Some hero`s will let you go a long way but not quite where you want to be. Your first picked hero might go the right route. But many random heroes from the hall of heroes will just seem to take a route you dont want to take.
Specialisations
The starting specialations are uninspiring to a point that you could really only bother with 2/3 interesting choices per faction. Many heroes have governor bonusses/growth. But why would you want to create a strong hero and babysit around your capital. Or why would you even bother with 8 extra Cabirs. If the bonus is a fixed stat and does not grow over time.
Conclusion
Don`t get me wrong. I am excited to play the game when it is patched up. I don`t suppose this will be the case in the next few months. Hopefully the launch of homm7 will make a jump simular from the first beta to the second. I`m glad about the improvements that have been made. We are on the right track but at the same time i have the feeling a lot has to be done and we are just at the beginning.
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lordgraa
Promising
Famous Hero
The Whisperer
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posted August 28, 2015 10:10 AM |
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After 2 days of beta and 8+ hours in the game without a single crash (wheeeeee - whos the lucky one? meeeeee  ) here are my concerns:
AI - is a big problem now. Its taking too much time to finish turn on big maps and completly ignoring some adventure map objects. This must be looked into before this game goes gold or there will be people in the streets!
Lack of diversity - spells, heroes, units abilities. I know their (UbiLimbic) budged was low but was it so BAD low? At least they tried something old/new with Arcane Knowledge for spells but that cant save it. We need unique and "growing" heroes specializations and unique and interesting units abilities (where is burrowing ability for Troglodyte/Chthonian?).
Keep it secret - it was always part of a Heroes "soul" to be challenged by a randomness. They took away the random skills (well they already put it back but in what form?) and now you can see everything and know everything by one click. Is it really neccessary to reveal it all? Even the random spell which can be obtained on adventure map? I miss the moment of surprise here.
OK, enough of rant. If you are the unlucky one and do not have access to the beta, here are my two videos of Sylvan and Dungeon gameplay (cca 1 hour long each):
Sylvan gameplay video
Dungeon gameplay video
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World of Heroes (Czech fansite)
The Shadows Over Ashan (H7 community DLC)
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted August 28, 2015 10:46 AM |
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new resources are necessary. It's extremely difficult to learn which is which and they all look/sound the same.
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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Resto
Tavern Dweller
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posted August 28, 2015 10:59 AM |
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Edited by Resto at 11:01, 28 Aug 2015.
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Why are both asassin and black dragon are so weak (and small, especially the dragon)? Asassin is barely stronger and actually frailer than a FAIRY (?!). He also was cooler when he was about a had taller than sentinel/brute/etc. The dragon is apparently the weakest champion aside from magic immunity and smaller than a deer! I've expected them both to be the best (and most expensive) units of their tiers.
Trough Dungeon apparently lost it's "quality over quantity".
Oh, and it's the first dungeon that have neither strong and/or numerous fliers or tons of high initiative/speed units. Now it's just a melee-walker army with supporting shooters, like Haven or Stronghold.
Well, atleast I'm almost sure that Necropolis won't have any new unpleasant surprises. Almost.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 28, 2015 11:57 AM |
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One of my major disappointments, blackies look goddamn diminutive and have a pretty average health No doubt they were downscaled because of those huge, silly wings or perhaps Limbic did not get around to fixing their size since shades. I should hope they will make them bigger while reducing the deer and spider size.
Some stat inconsistencies like assassin hp < pixie hp are understandable but the team should prioritize the key inconsistencies in stats and sizes first.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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supertommy
Known Hero
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posted August 28, 2015 12:11 PM |
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lordgraa said:
Keep it secret - it was always part of a Heroes "soul" to be challenged by a randomness. They took away the random skills (well they already put it back but in what form?) and now you can see everything and know everything by one click. Is it really neccessary to reveal it all? Even the random spell which can be obtained on adventure map? I miss the moment of surprise here.
Agree. It even tells you if an enemy will offer to join you! WTF? And what happened to "Few", "several", "lots"? You get all the numbers upfront. And when you attack an enemy, you can even choose to cancel. I wonder what the designer behind this has been thinking with...
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 28, 2015 12:14 PM |
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It's just not heroes without a little surprise here and there.. You even know the battle location rewards! Meh.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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TD
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted August 28, 2015 12:20 PM |
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Since we talk about stats, I don't understand why there is so much boost available for lower tier units. Dwarven cross-bow for example is something that doubles or triples core-shooters damage... and takes away range-penalties... and you can get same stuff from skills too... When you start combining these things core units(shooters specifically) end up doing way more damage compared to rest of creatures in terms of weekly growth. I thought this was something that was supposed to be history with h7... For example with weeks stalkers you can kill a black dragon easily when you boost them, couple actually when you take into account different kinds of bonuses. When I think about some of the combinations, it really makes me think I should just replace champions with core-units like cabirs and hunters because when boosted right, they end up doing way more damage as whole. I liked the fact that you boosted champions health, but I don't understand why you negated the boost and probably even more so by boosting cores potential so much... I really hope you nerf stuff like the boosts to core.
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted August 28, 2015 12:22 PM |
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Elvin said:
It's just not heroes without a little surprise here and there.. You even know the battle location rewards! Meh.
Are some of them revisitable? Showing off rewards isn't that bad, as it can be easily fixed but at least some of battle sites should be more than one-time treat.
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted August 28, 2015 12:33 PM |
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I guess one could hope they revise the feedback. Though they don't have much time, unfortunately.
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cleave
Promising
Famous Hero
Raging Blood
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posted August 28, 2015 01:55 PM |
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I've just dropped here to see what long time fans of the series thought.
I must say I'm still on the fence regarding this new game. Some things I like (especially the bits that remind me of 5) but I still have some doubts.
I only picked 6 a few months back and I haven't had the time to sink my teeth in it so I'll probably wait before picking 7.
In any case it's good to read interesting comments on the game.
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13 Heroes
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 28, 2015 01:56 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 14:11, 28 Aug 2015.
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malax83
Famous Hero
Game ranger, HotA Player
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posted August 28, 2015 02:07 PM |
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Edited by malax83 at 14:17, 28 Aug 2015.
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drusain said:
Something I was thinking about after I posted my earlier feedback was that when I wrote racial skills are too useful not to skill into them, it sort of really creates a conflict between the ability for a player to choose their own skills vs being able to be competitive. The truth is, in H7 (and this was generally true in H5 as well), if you are not boosting your faction skills, you are choosing to underperform.
More and more skills...
That s why these skills are bad, in Heroes 5 you ll grant bonus to your hero until the last level, which is the ultimate bonus faction. Now there s so many ability, applying on creatures and heroes, and it disrespects the overall balance. Even Heroes 5 lack balance, how can you balance such a mess ? Even if you scale the skills faction with hero leveling, how can you scale his effect dépends on the growth of creatures ?...
It s the victory of uniqueness faction against strategy games, the game should answer with similarity into factions but not so much... for example Necropolis gains troops per week, and haven could work as well (with or without diplomacy skill as a faction skill) hiring a bit more creatures than his opponents.
Bastion could grant bonus to a specific creatures (as a champions in their tribes), same for academy... Elves could have the hated creatures system.
Now you have 4 level skills factions + 7 ability... This is too much for my bloody heart...
Or for god s sake, you could only improve ability from the hero, like heroes 5.
Resume : too many uniqueness ability make the faction skill system random. Factions without any interest..
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keldaur
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 28, 2015 02:16 PM |
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Edited by keldaur at 14:22, 28 Aug 2015.
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TD said:
@Keldaur While I agree dungeon strength isn't shooters(since racial is essentially for melee), the stalkers are actually very good. In fact they were the only unit I ever needed as dungeon to clear out the map(well them and dark magic). Roughly for the first two months I used them exclusively(I had the extra building for extra assasins though and they were only half-range for me). I'll admit though that it's more about the hero than about the units, the game just encourages you to choose a tactic and just spam it for the rest of the game afterwards IMO(no incentive to really ever change anything).
With confusion + teleport i had a much easier time creeping with assassins than trying with stalkers. Stalkers aren't bad units per se, but you need to invest into the no range penalty to really do somewhat well against other ranged stacks while creeping. Points that are better spent imo on their racial (confusion is just too good, and anything that goes afterwards is pure gold). Upgraded minotaurs are plain nasty with the full racial tree.
Sylvans are better playing at the ranged creature creeping game to be honest, so i barely see the point on trying to play dungeon like sylvan.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted August 28, 2015 02:17 PM |
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Merging h3/h4 main menu visuals with h5 functionality would be the best...of course, we don't have that in the Best-of-Heroes 
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keldaur
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 28, 2015 02:20 PM |
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Edited by keldaur at 14:21, 28 Aug 2015.
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I can't care about how pretty the buttons look.
Specially when AI is insanely bad and their turns take ages on any large game.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 28, 2015 02:28 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 14:29, 28 Aug 2015.
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Can you care about their functionality at least? Why isn't everything Single Player related grouped under the Single Player button and everything Multi Player related grouped under Multi Player? So, you have everything single player put right on the first screen, but then still have a Single Player buttom comprised of ONLY custom games? Why not call it Custom Games! And what the hell is with that order? A game professed by the very devs to be single player focused gets the single player button UNDER the multi player one? That's a very inept attempt at organizing.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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TD
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted August 28, 2015 02:40 PM |
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keldaur said:
With confusion + teleport i had a much easier time creeping with assassins than trying with stalkers. Stalkers aren't bad units per se, but you need to invest into the no range penalty to really do somewhat well against other ranged stacks while creeping. Points that are better spent imo on their racial (confusion is just too good, and anything that goes afterwards is pure gold). Upgraded minotaurs are plain nasty with the full racial tree.
Sylvans are better playing at the ranged creature creeping game to be honest, so i barely see the point on trying to play dungeon like sylvan.
It's not that I'm saying stalkers are better(though when boosted right they are ways better)... just that they are enough. You don't need any other units and even against ranged you get no losses. I even had the range-penalty... Btw the attack/confusion only works during one units turn. when you get more units, the 2nd attacker needs to finish enemy or it gets retaliated against actually making some spells better when you have more units.
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This thread is pages long: 
