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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: ~ Heroes 7 - Beta Discussions ~
Thread: ~ Heroes 7 - Beta Discussions ~ This thread is 64 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 10 20 30 40 50 ... 60 61 62 63 64 · «PREV / NEXT»
Syth
Syth


Hired Hero
posted September 02, 2015 02:56 PM

cleglaw said:
@Syth
[url=http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=41345&PID=1321746#focus]local guards system[/url]





Thanks! hey that is actually what I proposed a while back on these forums.They do listen actually .I actually suggested that the MAX had to be connected to the number of months that have passed in the game.But even that is amazing to see in the game.I should download the beta

Sniff*** sniff** trying not to cry or get emotional  
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Neovius
Neovius


Adventuring Hero
posted September 02, 2015 10:26 PM

I just noticed... where's the starting bonus?
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Pawek_13
Pawek_13


Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
posted September 02, 2015 11:06 PM

Neovius said:
I just noticed... where's the starting bonus?

Oh, right... I guess adding them won't be that much of a problem, however. We just need to remind it somewhere.

PS I will get to play beta tomorrow (new laptop, finally!) It seems that I'll like it, despite some flaws (minimap, to say at least ,) but some more precise impressions will come tomorrow.

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drusain
drusain

Tavern Dweller
posted September 03, 2015 07:36 AM

VieuxSinge said:
@drusain

So just because you played dungeon this way means that you found the best possible build and that any other build is garbage? Good thinking here


Try skilling Explorer on your main hero with the purpose to try and gain fast map control sometime and let me know how you feel about whether the opportunity cost was worth it. That build, as you word it, is "garbage."

In H5, you can beat the really difficult C4M3 map without Sorcery or Empowered Spells if you have Logistics, for example. It's unusual, but definitely viable. The Explorer skills in H7 are not powerful enough to support that kind of play, and yes, you are objectively making the game harder on yourself for skilling into that tree.

There is just very little variety in how you can play this game without being objectively weaker if you don't pick the obvious skills the game feels you're "supposed" to pick. And that's not strategy.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted September 03, 2015 08:39 AM

Movement needs to be increased anyway Giving a few more movement points plus doubling the explorer bonus should do the trick. Back in the day explorer was an instant pick, now I don't even think about it. Lame.
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted September 03, 2015 09:33 AM

Imo, hile you are both right, I think you don't see the bigger picture.

The bigger picture is city building. Ask your yourself this question: playing Sylvans: on which day will you have built all creature dwellings, all creature upgrades and all creature Horde Buildings? That's 19 creature buildings alone, 3 money buildings, 4 MG levels, Blacksmith Hall of Heroes, Market, the Fortifications... 5 weeks, easily (without Economy).

Now, maps feel quite large - lots of space between stuff... What I want to say is, Hero speed RELATIVE TO MAP SIZE is slow, but city building is low as well.

Then there are the MOVEMENT INCREASING buildings and map objects. With hero speed the way it is - THEY ARE IMPORTANT (which is good).

I also disagree about the Explorer skill - as with the other skills it's not the skill - it's the abilities that do the trick:
ROVER: All boosts are doubled (that's a gigantic boost).
PATHFINDING: No comment
SNATCH: (Of course)

While that doesn't mean the Explorer skill as such couldn't be better, I do think that the skill as such has its advantages.

I'm also not sure at this point, whether the one-hero strategy is such a good thing with the movement limitation. The question is, whether the game allows building more heroes; my impression certainly is, yes, it does - which would be such a massive change I'd be willing to accept a couple of things, provided they get the balance right.

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kiryu133
kiryu133


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
posted September 03, 2015 10:36 AM

Artifacts feel very underwhelming, especially movement ones...
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted September 03, 2015 11:42 AM
Edited by Elvin at 11:44, 03 Sep 2015.

I hate town development as it is. Too many requirements that slow down your development like mage guild 2 for medusae or marketplace->black market->chtonian deposit for striders. This isn't even funny. I am even more annoyed by the fact that you need two buildings for warmachines. Or that offensive warmachine is lvl 6(in dungeon at least). Or the fact that two elites require lvl 9 town and the third lvl 12. WTF

Honestly I just want week 1 to have all my cores, one of which upgraded, town hall, some support(mage guild or blacksmith) and MAYBE an elite if I make some hard decisions. Having the option to change one of the above for a growth booster(minor core a or minor core b), a second mage guild or a second upgrade is good. But two warmachine buildings? A strong core growth booster? Smells like filler stuff.

I like the dilemma of which core or which elite unit to boost. But when you give a growth booster to every single unit I don't exactly see a choice. OF COURSE you will get a growth boost for hunters first opportunity you get. OF COURSE you will boost minos. Why the hell not? So we traded the classic +25/50% fortification growth for individual 100% core / 50% elite boosters? Meh. Coupled with those annoying building requirements I only see a lot of things getting in the way of building what I want.

Screw that, just give me all elites week 2 and maybe champion if I skip something.
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Map also hosted on Moddb

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keldaur
keldaur


Adventuring Hero
posted September 03, 2015 11:53 AM
Edited by keldaur at 11:56, 03 Sep 2015.

drusain said:
VieuxSinge said:
@drusain

So just because you played dungeon this way means that you found the best possible build and that any other build is garbage? Good thinking here


Try skilling Explorer on your main hero with the purpose to try and gain fast map control sometime and let me know how you feel about whether the opportunity cost was worth it. That build, as you word it, is "garbage."

In H5, you can beat the really difficult C4M3 map without Sorcery or Empowered Spells if you have Logistics, for example. It's unusual, but definitely viable. The Explorer skills in H7 are not powerful enough to support that kind of play, and yes, you are objectively making the game harder on yourself for skilling into that tree.

There is just very little variety in how you can play this game without being objectively weaker if you don't pick the obvious skills the game feels you're "supposed" to pick. And that's not strategy.


What are you talking about, i raise explorer all the time as first or second skill except if it's the bad neoghboring map, for obvious reasons. Once you get GM it basically let's you speed all around the map.

Get them buffs to take advantadge of it. I would say it's OP as hell right now lol.
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kiryu133
kiryu133


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
posted September 03, 2015 11:57 AM

@Elvin

snow town levels, amiright?
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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted September 03, 2015 12:15 PM

kiryu133 said:
@Elvin

snow town levels, amiright?


They shouldn't have used as many tiers as they have. If they really want it, just make three tiers or so, which each having the option to build X-amount of structures. Then once you achieved a total of Y of those, you unlock the next tier. Otherwise, within each Tier it's free-format, save for a few logical dependencies. That way, you could have the Elites in Tier 2 and mid-range fortifications and Town Hall as well, the Champions, Castle and Capitol all in Tier 3.

Oh wait, logic and Ashan are like water and fire. I forgot.

Personally, I'd forego town levels altogether and make a semi-free-format town development layout, with a number of logical dependencies and perhaps for a few buildings (like Capitol and Castle and the like) a requirement of having X buildings built within the town before you can make those upgrades - but they should be rare.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted September 03, 2015 12:52 PM

Elvin said:
I hate town development as it is. Too many requirements that slow down your development like mage guild 2 for medusae or marketplace->black market->chtonian deposit for striders. This isn't even funny. I am even more annoyed by the fact that you need two buildings for warmachines. Or that offensive warmachine is lvl 6(in dungeon at least). Or the fact that two elites require lvl 9 town and the third lvl 12. WTF

Honestly I just want week 1 to have all my cores, one of which upgraded, town hall, some support(mage guild or blacksmith) and MAYBE an elite if I make some hard decisions. Having the option to change one of the above for a growth booster(minor core a or minor core b), a second mage guild or a second upgrade is good. But two warmachine buildings? A strong core growth booster? Smells like filler stuff.

I like the dilemma of which core or which elite unit to boost. But when you give a growth booster to every single unit I don't exactly see a choice. OF COURSE you will get a growth boost for hunters first opportunity you get. OF COURSE you will boost minos. Why the hell not? So we traded the classic +25/50% fortification growth for individual 100% core / 50% elite boosters? Meh. Coupled with those annoying building requirements I only see a lot of things getting in the way of building what I want.

Screw that, just give me all elites week 2 and maybe champion if I skip something.

I seem to remember that a couple of days ago I started a thread "there" about balancing: that having all growth boosts at 100% is boring, that prices are wrong both for creatures and buildings, that unit stats and upgrade schemes are too similar in part and that there are WAY WAY WAY too many cores, considering how late Elites come (and Champions).

Look, town buildings is complex and SLOW; heroes are SLOW, maps are BIG, areas are BIG. Experience is plentiful. All this makes a strange kind of sense: things take time - you can't rush. However, you can develop more than one hero. The whole game scale is grander. That's fine. But you get virtually HUNDREDS of Cores, before you see even all your Elites not to mention a Champion.

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keldaur
keldaur


Adventuring Hero
posted September 03, 2015 12:57 PM
Edited by keldaur at 12:59, 03 Sep 2015.

Elvin said:
*About towns*
You can get all cores + elites before week 2 ends for Sylvan easilly, dungeon can too. The only thing you can't get are champions, which you couldn't on heroes V too as far i remember, and it's completely fine by me. Rushing to elites should be punishing how it is. Hell, i actually prefer how it is right now, you have to choose what your build order is gonna be way more than before.

For the dungeon thing.

Week 1
- Core
- Core
- Town upgrade
- Core
- Mage guild
- Growth core boost
- Growth core boost

Week 2
- Mage guild 2
- Town upgrade
- Marketplace
- Black market
- Cthonian deposit
- Medusa
- Strider

You can even skip something behind (growth core boost) if you want to. It's perfectly doable.

I am not in my pc right now so i can't play, but correct me if anything is wrong please.
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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted September 03, 2015 01:07 PM
Edited by Galaad at 19:24, 03 Sep 2015.

I wanted to give the beta another try but now I can't launch it anymore, keeps on crashing.

Edit
Superb, now my product is not activated anymore. LOL
Edit2
I can access the game again, yet three crashes in a row, yet three crashes in a row, yet three crashes in a row, two on launch and one entering first battle day 1.
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted September 03, 2015 01:09 PM

Depends on the settings you play.
Depends also on what you need to clear things effectively; I don't know about Dungeon, biut for Sylvans that build makes no sense:

1) You need Master Hunter Upgrade; it doubles Hunter effectiveness, so there is actually no alternative.
2) You need the Pixie-to-Sprite upgrade because of no-retaliation. 38 Sprites are pretty cool

3) You need a TON of Ore for Sylvans:
a) Blacksmith (5)
b) Hunter boost (5)
c) MG 1 (5)
d) Druids and Dancers both need Ore, Dancers 15, Druids at least 10

It is well possible to get 1 Elite in week 2; 2 may just work, if you really put pressure into it and want it; 3 is impossible.

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malax83
malax83


Famous Hero
Game ranger, HotA Player
posted September 03, 2015 01:39 PM
Edited by malax83 at 13:52, 03 Sep 2015.

JollyJoker said:


I'm also not sure at this point, whether the one-hero strategy is such a good thing with the movement limitation. The question is, whether the game allows building more heroes; my impression certainly is, yes, it does - which would be such a massive change I'd be willing to accept a couple of things, provided they get the balance right.


If i share your feelings about getting more heroes, enable us to stacking all creatures into one, i can t be optimistic for balance cause Racials Skills now apply on all creatures. I m complaining too about the difficulty to balance on each changes with plentyfull perks.

As for deciding which build is effective, i won t be surprised if only 1 or 2 paths will be used. I m really negative cause adding racial skill is already a complex thing (H3 necromancy for example...) so what will happen with so many abilities with large scale growing. Some of them will break mechanics of balance and add more frustation regarding a possible come back after a defeat, when an army reach is critical size.

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keldaur
keldaur


Adventuring Hero
posted September 03, 2015 01:43 PM
Edited by keldaur at 13:56, 03 Sep 2015.

JollyJoker said:
Depends on the settings you play.
Depends also on what you need to clear things effectively; I don't know about Dungeon, biut for Sylvans that build makes no sense:

1) You need Master Hunter Upgrade; it doubles Hunter effectiveness, so there is actually no alternative.
2) You need the Pixie-to-Sprite upgrade because of no-retaliation. 38 Sprites are pretty cool

3) You need a TON of Ore for Sylvans:
a) Blacksmith (5)
b) Hunter boost (5)
c) MG 1 (5)
d) Druids and Dancers both need Ore, Dancers 15, Druids at least 10

It is well possible to get 1 Elite in week 2; 2 may just work, if you really put pressure into it and want it; 3 is impossible.


Sylvans are even easier to get all elites since pretty much everything you get to unlock the elites is something you are going for anyways...

It's well possible to get 3 elites with sylvan on week 2 too...

And of course settings matter, but are we speaking about settings or if stuff is unlockable ? Because it certainly is.

The only ones i don't know are haven and academy, since i don't really like them (i am a necro, dungeon, sylvan lover).

Oh frack, why do you force me to write it down for you when you can actually check it out yourself.

Week 1

- Blacksmith
- Core
- Town upgrade
- Hunter
- Core/core boost
- Hunter boost
- Hunter upgrade

(Most stuff can be changed depending on your needs)

Week 2

- Mage guild 1
- Town upgrade
- Mage guild 2
- Druids
- Wardancers
- Moon does
- Town upgrade

Fix everything i may be mistaken pls, but yeah i know its possible because i got everything last game i played (sylvan hero which unlocks explorer + warfare, i went first for warfare to boost the ballista, then explorer to get the insane movement boost, so week 3 i get stables and nitro around).

Cash and resource avaibility may change what you can have access to, switch something for a marketplace if needed and use the thing. And yes, if resources are scarce you will have to choose, where is the problem there ? Random resources, make your pick.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted September 03, 2015 01:51 PM

"Balance" is a chimera anyway.

Imo, while you can pick a hero, what you have in the Hall of Heroes will be interesting as well. My current thoughts are, it remains to be seen whether picking an administrator hero (with Economy in the wheel) and starting with a useful governor skill and letting chance decide about your fighting hero might not work.

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PROJ
PROJ


Known Hero
posted September 03, 2015 04:04 PM

you can't even begin to have balance discussions unless everyone is on the same page: what maps (specifically) are we talking about, what game types (multiplayer 1v1? duels? multiplayer ffa? vs AI?).  Even then, it's ludicrous to think you've solved the game somehow if you don't have at the very least dozens of games under your belt (more probably hundreds or thousands).  A lot of these complaints can be solved pretty easily by simple map design anyways.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted September 03, 2015 04:04 PM

@ Keldaur

Makes no sense. Your builds cost in Gold alone 37200 gold. Your town earns you 17.000, only, though. You also have only 1 hero.

A reasonable build is:

Hall of Heroes
Pixies
Town Hall
Blacksmith
Hunter
Hunter Boost
Pixie Boost
------------
Hunter Upgrade
Pixie Upgrade
MG 1
MG 2
Dancers
Druids
Does

This costs 28200 Gold - but I'm still at 1.000 income and my town has given me 12.000 gold only. I have also no Drayds

For my build I need 45 W and 45 O plus 13 Starsilver which is also not easyto do.

So I think this builds make no sense.

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