|
|
PROJ
Known Hero
|
posted September 03, 2015 04:16 PM |
|
|
|
on a side note, since i'm not near my desktop at the moment, can somebody list the "specialty" (faction specific) buildings and their effects? I can't think of many of them off the top of my head, and I can't seem to find that info on the internet anywhere.
|
|
Valen-Teen
Famous Hero
UFOlolOgist
|
|
posted September 03, 2015 04:50 PM |
|
|
So... You are finally starting discuss the strategy 
____________
Our hopes for Heroes VIII!
|
|
PandaTar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
|
|
posted September 03, 2015 04:58 PM |
|
|
In CH, someone reported this:
Quote:
What I really do not like is the big influence the special weeks have on the game, I played a game where 2nd week was heroes -5 mp, thirds week was ranged combat does not work and fourth week was a plague.
Is there a list of these week effects? Having no ranged capabilities for the whole week, depending on random factors (odd how randomness is implemented in this game, no?), is ... oh, well.
____________
"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS – Portal 2
|
|
Manta
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted September 03, 2015 07:00 PM |
|
|
honestly I don't like the 'no range attacks' week
also, I think the amount of gold you start with on the normal setting should be boosted
cause, starting with 10,000 gold on normal setting is too low in my opinion
|
|
lordgraa
Promising
Famous Hero
The Whisperer
|
|
posted September 03, 2015 07:18 PM |
|
|
|
Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
|
|
posted September 03, 2015 07:30 PM |
|
|
Am I the only one here who with the random pick get skills and perks that his class should not have acces to?
____________
I'm just a Mirror of your self.
We see, we look, we gather, we store, we teach.
We are many, and you can be one of us.
|
|
Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
|
|
posted September 03, 2015 07:33 PM |
|
|
In MMH7, it is recommended to play with the free picks. 
____________
|
|
nik312
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted September 03, 2015 07:41 PM |
|
Edited by nik312 at 19:41, 03 Sep 2015.
|
Daaaaamn... Missed that stream. Was quite an opportunity to give devs some insight of what heroes series is about. Especially if they lack knowledge about competetive scene (without which there is no way you can understand Heroes as they are today  )
|
|
verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
|
|
posted September 03, 2015 07:42 PM |
|
|
Valen-Teen said:
So... You are finally starting discuss the strategy
we have been discussing strategies to improve this mess of a game since 2014, unfortunately I think the scenario difficulty has been set to impossible and Spider Cult heroes are too overpowered to beat lol
____________
|
|
keldaur
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted September 03, 2015 07:47 PM |
|
Edited by keldaur at 21:13, 03 Sep 2015.
|
Like i told you, that depends on the settings and the map, you have to adapt yourself, if you can't get 3 elites in week two it's not because "you can't unlock them" but because you don't have the resources, and if you don't have the resources that implies that you had to make choices, because if you are given the resources every game to build perfectly your town and get 3 elites on week 2, that would mean that a standard build had been found and people won't use any other. It's ironic because the complaints about always playing the same.
But if we are talking about bad neighboring (like i did).
Normal difficulty vs Heroic AI. Look at the resources tab, week. I had to skip town upgrade that game (as i said, i wasn't on my pc and i couldn't check it).
http://i.imgur.com/Bvevgv7.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/3LkkEtp.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/jogzRAk.jpg
So you can check that i already got the week 2. Damn, i have so much ore and wood that i don't know what to do with it.
Now a hard settings game.
Ending first week
Hall of heroes (hero)
Blacksmith
Town upgrade
Hunters
Pixies
Dryads
Hunter's boost
Cleared most of the things nearby, except the artifact. You can see here the town picture
http://i.imgur.com/qFEznkz.jpg
First mistake, i got greedy and get the dryads instead of the marketplace.
Second week
Hunter's upgrade
Town upgrade
Mage guild 1
Mage guild 2
Druids
Wardancers
Moon-- oopps gotta get the marketplace.
http://i.imgur.com/q1dFxG0.jpg
I already cleared my side entirely and i am ready to march one floor down.
As you can see in the screenshots if i had gotten the marketplace in place of the dryads/pixies (which i didn't really need to creep), i would had been able to pick up the 3 elites easilly since i only missed 1 unit of a resource and still have more than enough cash to get the t4 town even on hard, not to speak about enough wood and ore to convert it to whatever i please.
Are you speaking about a map in particular or a difficulty higher than hard ?
And please, before saying that something doesn't make sense, and then throwing some numbers around like they meant anything (45 wood/ore ...) is very easy to obtain in bad neighboring, and that's over 14 days, so in reality since you should get wood + ore in days 1 and 2 respectively, the need that you need to get from the ground is WAAAAAAAY lower (11-12 respectively because you already start with 6 on hard). There are already 2 stacks on each of the "mines" and you have a building that gives you ore or wood randomly each week, with that, and what you can pick from the ground, you are in no shortage of both of them. Oh well, and if you use get the earth adventure spell is even lower.
Money is also not an issue. Like at all. So even in the case you are throwing, the gold's income is way higher and that is more important than spending less cash, specially when cash is not really a problem 
I guess later i will try out heroic in the same map. Not really interested because the AI already has enough problems as it is, but will give it a whirl tomorrow probably.
You see the hero i use, i go early ballista, and the hero herself has hunters, so creeping is a non issue, either on normal or hard.
____________
|
|
Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
|
|
posted September 03, 2015 07:48 PM |
|
|
Galaad said:
In MMH7, it is recommended to play with the free picks.
Who and why would do that. It's like Buying a kindr egg and let somebody else have the toy. You still get the chocolate, but there is no fun in it.
____________
I'm just a Mirror of your self.
We see, we look, we gather, we store, we teach.
We are many, and you can be one of us.
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted September 03, 2015 09:48 PM |
|
|
keldaur]...quote said:
It's Elites for Elites's sake - you can spend resources better than that is what I meant - and things depend on a lot of things.
Master Hunters will CERTAINLY get more expensive or less in numbers because ... well.
You can also creep quite nice without shooters.
In any case building basic dweling is just part of it.
|
|
keldaur
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted September 04, 2015 12:15 AM |
|
Edited by keldaur at 03:30, 04 Sep 2015.
|
Where would you spend the money better than being able to pump out more creatures, if you are still maintaining the gold income perfect to be able to recruit them.
Also, i don't understand your point about master hunters. I guess you mean for creeping because they are OP ? Doesn't matter, ballista is the most important part in the early game anyways.
____________
|
|
yogi
Promising
Famous Hero
of picnics
|
|
posted September 04, 2015 06:08 AM |
|
Edited by yogi at 06:08, 04 Sep 2015.
|
lordgraa said:
To have it complete, here are 2 more videos + bonus:
Academy gameplay
Haven gameplay
Limbic Q&A 3h session
I just uploaded the whole playing session on youtube as I am not sure for how long they will keep it in archive on Twitch.
wonderful, thank you!
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted September 04, 2015 07:53 AM |
|
|
keldaur said:
Where would you spend the money better than being able to pump out more creatures, if you are still maintaining the gold income perfect to be able to recruit them.
Also, i don't understand your point about master hunters. I guess you mean for creeping because they are OP ? Doesn't matter, ballista is the most important part in the early game anyways.
Only with Warfare. Without it does crap.
Hunters cost 100. Masters 130? Ridiculous. Best deal ever.
"Pumping out more creatures" is fine and all, but you can do it in more ways than building a NEW dwelling.
|
|
keldaur
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted September 04, 2015 11:23 AM |
|
Edited by keldaur at 11:27, 04 Sep 2015.
|
Well the discussion if you could pump out 3 elites in week 2. And you definitly can and in no way it leaves you crippled (the oppossite), if you care to develop further your point about what you would do, with actual numbers and in game gameplay, with a different build that you would find more optimal, i am all ears, except if you are still trying to argue just to not concede.
This is way more interesting than complaining for the 12th time about spiders or Ashan Dark knights imo.
____________
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted September 04, 2015 12:02 PM |
|
|
Basically, your main goal is to establish a valid creeping force asap. Probaby the best way to go is hiring a second hero - possible only starting with at least 6000 Gold. Go with less and you have to play differently.
Second hero has a couple of advantages:
a) immediate reinforcements
b) a guy to scout and pick up
c) a possible governor candidate
d) an alternative in hero development with a view on magic and racial
There are at least two things that will change: Archery ability (full range for all) and Master Hunters (and be it only a price increase).
With that in mind, you have to come up with an early clearing force, and for Sylvans I see mainly 2:
a) Sprites and Master Hunters (Dryads offering a defense bonus and the occasional retal steal or guarding duty).
b) Druids plus something.
for a) I had the building order already listed (Sprites, Blacksmith, Town Hall, Hunters, Sprites Horde, Hunter Horde, with the 7th being open, but should possible be Dryads (this establishes max core creature gain). Day 8 and 9 see now Sprite and Master Hunter upgrade. City Hall wil be a necessity (10) and you need Magic (for Druids and magic heroes). With a magic hero it's MG 1 and 2 (day 11 and 12) lus Druids on 13, leaving Druid Horde, Dancers or Does as 14.
For b) you will go with HoH and MG1, MG 2 plus Druids on Day 6 or 7, leaving 3 builds which might be the complete MH line OR Town Hall plus Sprites with Horde. Another option would be to drop HoH. his saves money and you could come up with a combination of the above. There is also a Druid specialist, adding to Druid growth. Clearing force would be Druids and Sprites - obviously with a Magic hero, considering the MGs.
|
|
keldaur
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted September 04, 2015 12:36 PM |
|
Edited by keldaur at 12:39, 04 Sep 2015.
|
I already use the secondary hero, if you check the build i used both in normal and hard.
I do agree that for sylvans if they do not invest in ballista (well this really goes for any hero right now imo, haven't played academy or haven tho), they won't creep as fast, except the one that comes with lots of hunters and has very early access to the no range penalty ability.
Nerfs/buffs may change the gameplay, but we can't predict how it will work out or what limbic will do. I definitly prefer to skip a core than a elite tho. Dryads are in general very underwhelming compared to pixies, their only perk are the resourcesless buildings, and if you are splitting stacks in numbers of 1 for extra buffers so your rangeds shoot, it shouldn't be a problem no matter what you do.
Later on, the biggest offender is dungeon with the upgraded stalker tho, ballista champion + offense no range penalty (on lvl 9 both!) allows them to safely creep champions or hordes alike (stalker base attack is pretty darn high).
____________
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted September 04, 2015 01:02 PM |
|
|
I would be very surprised if Tracker wouldn't get a nerf.
I somewhat disagree with your Elite over Core philosophy. The CURRENT numbers favor Cores, because they are cheap and plentiful and you can boost them easily. There are a couple of abilities that work with numbers, and Perfect Offense will make them pretty deadly (perfect Defense on the other hand will make them quite durable).
I mean, 10 Blade Masters will cost me 5200 Gold to buy and 9000 gold to build. I'll take 38 Sprites for not half that price and ridiculous building costs any day.
Then there are the usual mechanisms: Core outside dwellings are more common (you get 7/7/4 for Sylvans) Elite. The creature gowth specialist gives another 10 Sprites. And if you get a second town you can add to Core growth effortlessly, without a big investment.
|
|
keldaur
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted September 04, 2015 05:31 PM |
|
Edited by keldaur at 17:33, 04 Sep 2015.
|
That entirely depends on what stack you are speaking of, and if you expect to upgrade them. If i am doing a 3 week rush to my opponent's town, i want the elites and i won't upgrade other creatures than master hunters since i don't want to waste any time, and pixies are normally meat during the first turns to really get to high numbers. Dryads in the other hand, upgraded or not, are really bad imo, if it wasn't because they can fly, still very low in my priority list.
The point is, that you don't need to give up on those pixies, you have the money and the resources if you want to go all in to buy every creature at the start of week 3, or as i said, just get the town upgrade and continue creeping (ie saving cash, getting the creatures that will help you creeping while you prepare to upgrade your creatures for a more long term game).
Specialists are random, so that entirely depends on what you are getting at with your second hero. There are always variables (ie : you don't play the same way if you want to min max) but a week 3 sylvan rush with pretty much every core (except dryads if you want to be safe to be able to get 4 moon does, which believe it or not, are much better than the 40 dryads you may get).
I think our disagreement comes that you think you are giving up economy wise going for the elites, where i find that economy is not a problem at all and in any moment spending those resources to get early access (and growth) to those elites. For long term you will have the numbers of 1-2 weeks worth, for short term you are able to recruit a huge army fast enough.
Or you think that you are missing on the opportunity of upgrading creatures, which as i answered you, numbers trumps quality that early in the game imo.
Later on, as we actually play the game more and more and more, ie: not getting 1 elite and getting the druid upgrade (for thorns etc) against X faction, etc etc. But we will get to that point later on, not right now. Right now what we can talk about is expected income and where to spend it, and if it's efficient. Can you transition into lategame with it? or are you forced to use it as an all in? etc...
Income on bad neoghboring is damn high, either from rare resources (atleast to set the pillars of your build order) and from cash, wood and ore, and it is a very small maps that favours rushing, hence the focus on more units, instead of synergies which would require time to build up.
Anyways, if you overinvest in something, you shouldn't be able to get everything, i really don't understand what Elvin is trying to point out with "you should be able to get 3 elites week 2 and champions week 3". Erhm no.
1 - Actually you can do it.
2 - There is absolutely no argument made about why it should be that way aside of feelings.
____________
|
| |
|
|
This thread is pages long: 
