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Heroes Community > Summoners Academy > Thread: Creature Quest Discussion Thread
Thread: Creature Quest Discussion Thread This Popular Thread is 141 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 30 60 90 120 ... 137 138 139 140 141 · «PREV / NEXT»
hayenne
hayenne


Known Hero
posted October 11, 2017 08:03 PM
Edited by hayenne at 21:39, 11 Oct 2017.

I feel you, Oliver. I just ranted today in discord about PVP heading haphazardly but steadily down.

The great divide between the money sharks and f2p/small backers is HUGE, actually the biggest of all time. You can see it by the defences of top players being nearly impossible to win (which is ok with me by the way, as you should expect crazy resistance from top players), but all others have meagre 20-25% def rate, which is really bad. There is no middle ground any more for experienced players.

With the old 3 wave LE/draconian I (as well as dulkan and many others) consistently had about 45% def rate. I have improved my defences with units with more dots/totems/better synergy, but the opposing offence has improved much more.

While the old design was basically broken as it endorsed copycat layouts, the new ones do not remedy the issue. In fact, the better defences are once again copycat.

It's even worse now, because earlier you could defend well (45% in the gold tier qualifies as well in my eyes) with 3d units, now you need 4d force + multiple dungeon boost + shrine boost to reliably defend. It's a massive p4w sinkhole, quite sadly.

I would have quit a few weeks ago, because I have no remaining interest in PVP, but the new quests are somewhat a challenge yet and it keeps an old wheel slowly spinning.

I am currently completing the new achievement for two new bosses. I had to design a new team for each quest (which is cool, but even then I have no free slots)




Sadly, the developers did many nice things and listened to the community, but managed to overlook the PVP side. Most valid concerns raised by dulkan (useless waves after wave 1, p4w bias etc) still stand.
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Oliver_GD
Oliver_GD

Tavern Dweller
posted October 11, 2017 08:25 PM

There are so many people dissatisfied with current dungeon setup, I wonder why the developers aren't listening. Cause if not, most veteran players are gonna quit and only the payers will remain feasting on new inexperienced players.

Btw, where can I find the discog forum? Is there a link for it? Sounds like there is more activity there. I would like to join an active CQ community forum
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hayenne
hayenne


Known Hero
posted October 11, 2017 09:18 PM

Oliver_GD said:
There are so many people dissatisfied with current dungeon setup, I wonder why the developers aren't listening. Cause if not, most veteran players are gonna quit and only the payers will remain feasting on new inexperienced players.

Btw, where can I find the discog forum? Is there a link for it? Sounds like there is more activity there. I would like to join an active CQ community forum


They listen and actually implemented a lot of changes requested by the community, both usability and the balance ones. They even implemented some of the changes I asked myself.
They do seem to have their own priorities, which I am unaware of, so changes which me and some other players consider to be important, are not so important in their view. Well, it's their own right. Many veteran players did quit... most of people I played with are here no more.

I'm not sure if there is any public Discord server, I am only in the Dark Reign guild chat, but hardly anything goes there (they mostly use Line). Galaad said there is some Kreegans' chat - maybe ask him if there is a public channel? Kreegans used to be a chatty lot when I was around

This thread used to get lots of attention, not so much lately - you can see the game interest wanes...
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Mahoney

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted October 12, 2017 12:28 AM

In case there is some guild mates lurking... You might want to log in.
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Rakshasa92
Rakshasa92


Famous Hero
posted October 12, 2017 01:18 AM

Galaad said:
In case there is some guild mates lurking... You might want to log in.


Why?

Is the present they give because of downtime only given within the hour or day?

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hayenne
hayenne


Known Hero
posted October 12, 2017 09:59 AM
Edited by hayenne at 10:51, 12 Oct 2017.

Oliver_GD said:
Out of curiosity, who does everyone consider the good players on the game? I'm not talking about players from Stickers who win a lot because they obviously paid for their creatures to get all 4 dots. I'm genuinely curious if there is a player you admire who has good setup who didn't spend a lot of money. I consider Galaad and someone like Priest of Baa to be good players since they have creative dungeons and it didn't look like they spent a ton.

I actually have spent $0 in the game so I was quite proud I finally made top 50 for the knight event. (Thanks to markMasters for attacking me at last minute and giving me a defense win or I wouldn't have made it )


Eh I would not demonize Stickers (or whatever other guild). They have some decent players with proper understanding of underlying game mechanics. The latter was always a main criteria for me for a "good player" definition.

They help the developers with their $$ instead of us cheapskates too, that's the whole idea of freemium.

It's actually that this stupid change of increased guild size that is to blame -- with increasing the guild, it was only a question of time for big time spenders to aggregate in the same place. It reduced player ability on the "guild market" so to say and it's certainly a bad thing, especially when you can't peg them against each other. Earlier we had many major guilds with similar ratings and it was way better... in my view anyway.
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Mahoney

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Rakshasa92
Rakshasa92


Famous Hero
posted October 12, 2017 11:25 AM

In my opinion you have p(l)ayers and wallet warriors.

P(l)ayers only buy a couple of time, maybe maxiumum of 60 euro's which is normal for a game to cost.

Then you have the stickers Wallet Warriors, they buy everything, put thousands of euro's or dollars into the game and win by money.

I only have a problem with Wallet Warriors, I think they are sick. Spending some money on a game is ok, and even better, but pouring money into a bottemless pit because you can't win otherwise is annoying.


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AlHazin
AlHazin


Promising
Supreme Hero
Tutto possibile
posted October 12, 2017 12:30 PM

I withdraw from PvP for multiple reasons, more details to come Galaad.
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"The Erwin is out there as they say once in a while lol" - Verriker.
A felt change of consciousness - Markkur.
Use this code in Creature Quest! t2QEc#j7h

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Brukernavn
Brukernavn

Hero of Order
posted October 12, 2017 12:35 PM

I'm glad the big spenders are willing to spend big. They are the ones allowing me to play for free. I'm actually surprised by how much people are willing to pay into games, but that's another story.

There is a balance between F2P and P2W. You want as large a player base as possible, but also good enough incentives for people to buy stuff. If the advantage for P2W is too large, then free players are not going to bother, and the game collapses with too few players. Until now the advantage you could buy in CQ was TIME and CONVENIENCE. Basically, anything you bought with money you could acquire by regular play, it would just take longer. Diamonds, material, creatures, etc. The convenience is also time saving, but is more about making life easier. Like more daily quick quests, all difficulties unlocked, etc. I think this is a good balance between F2P and P2W. You can accelerate your progress with $, but eventually the free players will catch up. This has happened several times already, for instance with the old 3 wave setup. Once you had the "good" creatures awakened and totemed, there was no longer any advantage for whales. Or with the empty wave 1 stun meta period. Once you got the epic stunners awakened and totemed, the playing field would be leveled. In this case they introduced Dungeon 2.0 before we got to that point, but in time there would again be no advantage for whales.

This takes me to the current situation. At this point in time the differences between P2W and F2P are probably as large as they have ever been. For dungeon challenge the deciding factor is Kingdom, not the actual dungeon. The dungeon only becomes paramount when you have relative equal Kingdom level. In time F2P will catch up in this case as well. I think the gap will increase until people start maxing out kingdom, then the gap will narrow and eventually even out.

However, there are two new mechanics that worry me: kingdom boost and shield. Big spenders can afford to have boosts active the entire time. This equals hundreds of diamonds a day with higher Kingdom levels, and is not something a F2P player will ever be able to match. The same goes for the new shield option. These introduce a permanent competitive advantage that come from $, which can not be achieved over a longer time by free play. The only other permanent advantage used to be the fallen angel. He's good, but it's not like you need him to be competitive. With time you can acquire good 4 dot legendaries through other means. On the other hand, boosting keeps and color shrines seems to be necessary to stay competitive, and this is not something you can do on a regular basis with only free play. Whether it is intended or not, these new mechanics tilt the scale more towards P2W. Previously the scale might have been tilted too much the other way, but I'm not sure if this is the right balance. Time will tell.

While I'm at it let me chime in on enchants. One of the appeals of CQ for me is the "easy to get into, but hard to master" gameplay. Creatures and abilities are easy to understand, but require skill to master properly. Quite similar to chess or Heroes games. Customizing creatures is not such a bad idea in that setting, but by the looks of it there are too many and too significant enchants. Ironically creatures might lose their uniqueness this way. The last heroes game(s) fell into that trap, adding too many passive and active abilities to creatures. We are still in the early phase of enchants, so I'll reserve my judgement for now. What we can be sure of, is that this will increase the gap between F2P and P2W even further in the near to mid future. Hopefully they can keep the interest of most players until the gap narrows.

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Bragjul
Bragjul


Adventuring Hero
aka Titanu88
posted October 12, 2017 01:21 PM
Edited by Bragjul at 13:47, 12 Oct 2017.

I agree completely with what Brukernavn said, until everyone will reach the max kingdom level the gap will become larger and larger.

Rushing structures for diamonds is not inclining the balance toward a p2w system, is compleately transforming the game into a p2w since the people who will afford to rush daily, will reach high kingdom levels much much faster then the rest.


It's a simple equation:
successfully defense = X, where x=having higher lvl castle+ shrines then the other players
To achieve X, you need to rush resource structures on a daily basis in order to always be upfront with kingdom upgrades
To achieve rushing on a daily basis, you need A LOT of diamonds
To achieve A LOT of diamonds, you need money. A LOT of money

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the definition of a Pay to Win game.

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted October 12, 2017 03:17 PM

The argument is how much extra rushes are significantly different than someone spending to get more Creature pulls. The net effect is basically the same, acquire a thing you'd get after a longer period in a shorter period.

What developers don't seem to understand is how adding this this and that is negatively impacting the PvP experience to low payers or free players, since Kingdom works hand in hand with it.
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Oliver_GD
Oliver_GD

Tavern Dweller
posted October 13, 2017 04:10 AM

Has anyone figured out the formula they use for assigning dungeon groups? Not between gold silver and bronze, but within the gold group itself. Is it by order of entry?
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Oliver_GD
Oliver_GD

Tavern Dweller
posted October 13, 2017 04:12 AM

Also if you have shield, will you be able to attack other dungeons still? That would be extremely unfair if you could.
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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted October 13, 2017 10:19 AM

Oliver_GD said:
Also if you have shield, will you be able to attack other dungeons still?


Shield breaks when you make an attack.
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Sandro316
Sandro316

Tavern Dweller
posted October 13, 2017 06:39 PM

Galaad said:
Oliver_GD said:
Also if you have shield, will you be able to attack other dungeons still?


Shield breaks when you make an attack.


Can you revenge people that attack you while shielded?  I'm hoping you can't, because if so that seems like a very huge advantage.  I haven't actually bought a shield yet to test this.
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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted October 13, 2017 08:52 PM

I don't know really, I'm likely skipping PvP this week and oddly enough this update seems to be a bit buggy. I'm in contact with many other guilds/players and the feedback seems vastly negative on PvP right now, so I'm expecting some tweaks in the near future, VCME has proven themselves to take the feedback into consideration more than once. Through updates the game has had many additions that were requested by players, such as size-restricted quests, better drop rates, Emperor difficulty, rushing battle tower's floors, combo dots fusion, and more. In a way they also made it so with Kingdom that it is now possible to make great defense, following many complaints about weak defenses, but the pacing/balance between f2p and p2w seems off, hopefully they can readjust it in a way that will keep both players and enough revenue so that the PvP environment can get a little less one-sided as it is right now. Things like multiple dungeons bonuses are on the right track imo.

I also already got a 3d Hunchback and I can wait for essences, Lady of the Lake is good for them now, so it's probably better like this for me.
So instead I've been focusing on what seems to be the more positive sides of this update, namely the new Expert Quest which I like a lot for its great atmosphere, as well as experimenting with the Enchants. Only tried out some Bronze ones for now but it seems really nice. I am really curious to see what the higher tier enchants will bring to the table. At first glance it seems more strategical depending on your synergies than mere buffs, so looking forward to see more of the possibilities.
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Oliver_GD
Oliver_GD

Tavern Dweller
posted October 13, 2017 10:08 PM

Enchants and king bounty both benefit greatly pay guilds as well. King bounty gives an extra greater essense to everyone in guild if everyone buys enough swag bag. Enchant is like kingdom. You need more resources (esp scrolls) and energy pts to grind the quest to get it. And you need diamonds for this. And you get more diamonds by paying. In addition, the higher level enchants is only reached by the higher level players who can beat the draconic expert quest which means the gap between the high level pay players and the regular players widens even more
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Kipshasz
Kipshasz


Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
posted October 15, 2017 05:50 PM

Ok, after spending what... A week or so on this game, here's my thoughts on it:


Artwork is nice, no question about it. Some creature design are humorous and light hearted(penguin archer using a swordfish as an arrow), and some are in the "cool and awesome" section

It's grindy af. But all freemium suffers from that.
Gameplay is simple, and it's good for a casual game.

No annoying adds or "offers" in every turn. They do occasionally pop up, sure, but the game doesn't shove it in your face constantly. Thank bleep for that.

overall, a good freemium game, actually done right.
____________
Lithuanian folklore:
The Good and the Evil grab a few beers and go to watch how the neighbor's house is burning down.
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"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior

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The_Polyglot
The_Polyglot


Promising
Supreme Hero
zombie
posted October 15, 2017 10:29 PM

When a freemium game has too many different currencies to list off the top of my head, that game, regardless of other possible mitigating factors, can go contract Diarrhoea Erinacaeus
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You're someone else's problem
Now I only want you gone...
-Glados

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Kipshasz
Kipshasz


Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
posted October 15, 2017 10:34 PM

you have "tickets", "tokens" and the "diamonds", besides gold.

Not that much overall.
Unless you count in all the different color and size xp gems.
____________
Lithuanian folklore:
The Good and the Evil grab a few beers and go to watch how the neighbor's house is burning down.
* * *
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior

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