|
| Thread: The moral degradation of todays teens/young adults. |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 · «PREV / NEXT» |
|
markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
|
posted October 03, 2016 10:55 PM |
|
|
Gryphs said:
They ARE experts compared to what you know on the subject. "Voodoo" do you honestly believe that?
Good grief man. I made a list and asked what others thought because every listed item has been by others than myself and will be discussed in the years ahead.
And...how exactly do you think you know what I know? I would never make an arrogant statement like that. I cannot read your brain like a newspaper.
However, since you so nicely asked; Generally, I DO think PILLS are handed out far too easily today and less Talk-Freakin'-Therapy now.
Here's a wee bit of logic; Q: If I am given a Pill that can drastically alter who the hell I am and what I think, is it wise for this pill-giving to NOT have known me very well before? And further, is it wise to NOT make some family member and possibly a friend, a part of monitoring the change in me?
|
|
tSar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
|
|
posted October 03, 2016 11:11 PM |
|
|
I agree with Markkur, like when I had a foot infection I was given like 7 different types of medication all with various immediate or moderate effects (one gave me the worst sore throat I've ever had literally felt like I swallowed glass, could barely breathe). So asked em are they all necessary, can they just give me the ones I really need? In the end I was taking only anti-biotics, god knows what the other stuff was, thanful that I asked dammit. Randomly feeding me drugs like some sort of guinea pig just because I have my trust in them to cure me should be ****ing illegal. -,-'
____________
"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
|
|
OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
|
|
posted October 03, 2016 11:12 PM |
|
|
I think perhaps Kiryu worded it a bit unfortunate/provocative (perhaps on purpose?) because I do think it'd be nice if there's room enough for people who are more sensitive than you and I, and I do think it'd be nice if people think before they act.
@Markkur
Quote:
I've heard attention-spans are in serious decline and I'm not sure when the downturn started.
I am afraid that might include me, because I don't understand your list and how I'm supposed to proceed it. 
But I noticed this:
Quote:
How about every child on a team playing in a league getting a trophy!? Dead-last teams? "Here's your Gold-Statue, great job!" A kid that is not even learning the game? "For your work ethic" A kid that has zero talent for the game? "You can do everything sooo well!" Now how hosed-up is that???
I once ended 4th in a three man race and got a little prize that congratulated me on my 4th place.  I think I was close to get a bronze medal actually.
But with jokes out of the way, I remember from prof. sport that once they are in the finals the losers seldom seem happy with silver medals, and it makes sense, because they lost the gold, but on the other hand, they did truly win something in my opinion, and can be proud of what they have achieved. I think what I describe (or try to) is the opposite of what you do, a mentality where winning is everything versus a mentality where not losing is everything, both are ignoring the individual needs of the participants at hand by generalizing.
Edit: @Topic yes the medical profession is a strange cocktail and I think it is because it is to do with humans. If something goes wrong, it is not just like a physics experiment where you learned something new and you can happily continue testing this intriguing new area, there are complications and consequences that can be horrible.
With that said, while there really are some bad eggs out there, at least in my country where we have had our share of infamous medical doctors across several fields (a surgeon and a psychiatrist comes to mind), modern medicine is our current best solution to various ailments and diseases, and in general it does work better than no action, there are blind tests after all, but the unpleasant thing is that we have to put a great deal of trust that things are what they appear, and when something goes wrong I understand others who do and would probably myself also claim foul play very fast.
|
|
markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
|
|
posted October 03, 2016 11:31 PM |
|
Edited by markkur at 00:06, 04 Oct 2016.
|
tSar-Ivor said:
I agree with Markkur, like when I had a foot infection I was given like 7 different types of medication all with various immediate or moderate effects (one gave me the worst sore throat I've ever had literally felt like I swallowed glass, could barely breathe). So asked em are they all necessary, can they just give me the ones I really need? In the end I was taking only anti-biotics, god knows what the other stuff was, thanful that I asked dammit. Randomly feeding me drugs like some sort of guinea pig just because I have my trust in them to cure me should be ****ing illegal. -,-'
Today it seems everything I take can cause anything in me to happen.  Several times I was given pills that the strongest side effect was the reason I was taking the pill - to get rid of that very thing.
About guinea-pigs. I blame both government and big-pharma for the shape of things today. It is hugely expensive to bring a drug to market today and yet when they do there is no "Long-term-study performed before people are ingesting the stuff. Many drugs that were made for one thing...didn't work for that one thing but was found to help some people with something else because of the huge lab and data-collection.
A couple of years ago I was prescribed a Edit={Nerve}-drug, that depressed me. Because I made my wife my feedback, I was off the stuff in a jiffy. The change in me scared the hell out of her but I had no idea and that's the point. How can any mind compare before and now in a clear fashion. Most things are based on how does it make you feel? But ask a drunken-man how he feels? Great! then Can you drive? Of course!
No two human-bodies are identical and the old adage "One man's medicine is another's poison" will always ring true.
Making very young children lifetime customers, at a time when their bodies (the whole works) is still forming? I find intolerable.
|
|
Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
|
|
posted October 03, 2016 11:44 PM |
|
Edited by Gryphs at 23:53, 03 Oct 2016.
|
markkur said:
And...how exactly do you think you know what I know? I would never make an arrogant statement like that.
You are not to my knowledge a psychologist so I must assume you know less than a psychologist would.
markkur said:
However, since you so nicely asked; Generally, I DO think PILLS are handed out far too easily today and less Talk-Freakin'-Therapy now.
I agree. I see not how this would warrant a relation to voodoo.
markkur said:
Here's a wee bit of logic; Q: If I am given a Pill that can drastically alter who the hell I am and what I think, is it wise for this pill-giving to NOT have known me very well before? And further, is it wise to NOT make some family member and possibly a friend, a part of monitoring the change in me?
In general drugs used to cure mental illness are usually not that strong. Common drug prescriptions such as antidepressants will not change your personality in such a massive manner. You are not going to go from an introvert to an extrovert or from a body builder to someone who hates exercise. If you are talking about side effects from pain medication than that has nothing to do with psychology. If, however, there was such a drug being prescribed by a psychiatrist, and it had somehow made it past an ethic's board, and was not limited to an institutional setting. Then, yeah, I imagine the psychiatrist would be checking in on you and your family and friends to make sure it is working right.
____________
"Don't resist the force. Redirect it. Water over rock."-blizzardboy
|
|
markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
|
|
posted October 03, 2016 11:44 PM |
|
|
OhforfSake said:
...but on the other hand, they did truly win something in my opinion, and can be proud of what they have achieved. I think what I describe (or try to) is the opposite of what you do, a mentality where winning is everything versus a mentality where not losing is everything, both are ignoring the individual needs of the participants at hand by generalizing.
Well, I think there is something to your thought for sure but it sounds to me like that would lead to no contests?
Anyway, that was just an example to consider (something I heard a couple of months ago) but from my larger POV; Is reward without effort or success... a good thing? I don't think so, after-all people need to learn modesty too right?
____________
"Do your own research"
|
|
markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
|
|
posted October 04, 2016 12:00 AM |
|
Edited by markkur at 00:03, 04 Oct 2016.
|
Gryphs said:
markkur said:
Here's a wee bit of logic; Q: If I am given a Pill that can drastically alter who the hell I am and what I think, is it wise for this pill-giving to NOT have known me very well before? And further, is it wise to NOT make some family member and possibly a friend, a part of monitoring the change in me?
In general drugs used to cure mental illness are usually not that strong. Common drug prescriptions such as antidepressants will not change your personality in such a massive manner. You are not going to go from an introvert to and extrovert or from a body builder to someone who hates exercise. If you are talking about side effects from pain medication than that has nothing to do with psychology. If, however, there was such a drug being prescribed by a psychiatrist and it had somehow made it past an ethic's board; and was not limited to an institutional setting. Than, yeah, I imagine the psychiatrist would be checking in on you and your family and friends to make sure it is working right.
Dude I understand your POV and the best way that I can explain is I once held your POV but I have witnessed "melt-downs" from those around me and as a matter of fact have been a sort of "fireman" in many situations - it's like walking in hell or something -horrible to witness. I would like to inform you the details but I cannot...you know...privacy, discretion and all that.
Unfortunately much more powerful drugs are being dispensed today and they can and do wreck, minds, families and lives. <imvho> There is not yet enough precaution and data to back-up what is too often happening today.
I can share this and it just happened. I am going on what a young friend says happened and he's a bright guy and does his research. He took his wife for a pregnancy check-up. They insisted she take a flu shot and his wife almost did. However, my friend had discovered the company that makes this flu-shot adds mercury to the product for shelf-life. Mercury is highly toxic and the % in the vaccines are high. Since their baby is developing in the womb now, they said NO. But you know what? The nurse kept insisting till she finally got angry and said; "Someone else WILL take it" and left the room.
Make of that what you will
|
|
Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted October 04, 2016 12:02 AM |
|
Edited by Stevie at 00:08, 04 Oct 2016.
|
OhforfSake said:
I think perhaps Kiryu worded it a bit unfortunate/provocative (perhaps on purpose?)
On purpose? What exactly would he stand to gain from undermining his own point? Wouldn't a sane person provide support by exemplifying what well-thought actually means?
No mate, there's no wit there, just pure honesty, blatant inconsistency, arrogance and entitlement, all converging into what is basically a thought crime. Forcing people to think anything else than what they want to think is absolutely a bad thing and no amount of SJW angst and triggering will ever change that. But they are so absorbed by the values they uphold and their perceived righteousness that any scrutiny or disagreement will be viewed as offensive.
____________
Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
|
|
OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
|
|
posted October 04, 2016 12:05 AM |
|
|
I think the idea is to reward to get interest to the act itself is a reward (or at least a habit). Regular stuff like if you do your chores or your homework I'll not be feeding you to the crocs today.
I imagine mainly it goes on e.g. with younger children who are new to a sport. In my opinion perhaps it's a bit silly they participate in a competition before they even have the skill or interest though. I remember from football and chess, that in football they threw us into competitions right away, despite we hadn't even learned any basics and where very young, and if I stayed on a team or not depended on how nice the others were. First year they were nice, second they weren't, so I left. A few years later as a teenager me and a couple of friends participated in a competition with our own team (for smaller teams), simply because we enjoyed playing and there we could find people to play with.
In chess we were kept away from competitions until we at least weren't a total waste to play against, meaning a couple of years actually, and it makes sense, people who pay to come there and play in the tournament (only once a week) would not want to beat up a kid who loses in 10 moves because he can't overview the game properly. They did make a competition for us kids only though and it was very nice, and top 4 or 5 got stuff, top 3 got medals, it was very enjoyable for me at least. Also even when I did start playing in competition I was still badly beaten by the majority of my opposition despite them being close to the lowest possible rating, but I wasn't a walkover at least and I did have my seldom victories I cherished a lot. The funny thing is that I don't even think I've gotten better at the game since then, only less nervous now.
In any case, I don't think I've experienced getting rewards for participating.
|
|
Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
|
|
posted October 04, 2016 12:28 AM |
|
Edited by Gryphs at 01:55, 04 Oct 2016.
|
markkur said:
Dude I understand your POV and the best way that I can explain is I once held your POV but I have witnessed "melt-downs" from those around me and as a matter of fact have been a sort of "fireman" in many situations - it's like walking in hell or something -horrible to witness. I would like to inform you the details but I cannot...you know...privacy, discretion and all that.
Sounds like sleep paralysis to me. This is, however, likely caused by painkillers which are prescribed by a doctor not psychiatrist. What you are talking about is not problems with psychology but the medical institution in the US. I could be wrong though. Pardon me asking, but is a psychiatrist prescribing you medicine?
markkur said:
I can share this and it just happened. I am going on what a young friend says happened and he's a bright guy and does his research. He took his wife for a pregnancy check-up. They insisted she take a flu shot and his wife almost did. However, my friend had discovered the company that makes this flu-shot adds mercury to the product for shelf-life. Mercury is highly toxic and the % in the vaccines are high. Since their baby is developing in the womb now, they said NO. But you know what? The nurse kept insisting till she finally got angry and said; "Someone else WILL take it" and left the room.
That sounds like malpractice.
____________
"Don't resist the force. Redirect it. Water over rock."-blizzardboy
|
|
Homer171
Promising
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted October 04, 2016 12:59 AM |
|
|
Freedom of speach, what a joke.
You need to think your words carefully now days that none does not feel offended. Still I have heard statements like: Existence of religion is insult to me. The "curse" word here is: Tolerance. Now as long as we all agree on something, we are all tolerant, if you think or more horrible say anything otherwise, then you are intolerant. Makes sense right? Now, the biggest intolanced people are of course: the religious people, criminals and really old "fashioned" people. Now, try to start normal conversation where you are immediatly pushed "against the fall" when they feel you aren't "100% tolerant" What word tolerant even means nowdays is not same I read from dictionary.
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted October 04, 2016 01:46 AM |
|
|
Stevie said:
No mate, there's no wit there, just pure honesty, blatant inconsistency, arrogance and entitlement, all converging into what is basically a thought crime. Forcing people to think anything else than what they want to think is absolutely a bad thing and no amount of SJW angst and triggering will ever change that. But they are so absorbed by the values they uphold and their perceived righteousness that any scrutiny or disagreement will be viewed as offensive.
The irony here is off the charts.
____________
Eccentric Opinion
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted October 04, 2016 01:50 AM |
|
|
Markkur said:
I can share this and it just happened. I am going on what a young friend says happened and he's a bright guy and does his research. He took his wife for a pregnancy check-up. They insisted she take a flu shot and his wife almost did. However, my friend had discovered the company that makes this flu-shot adds mercury to the product for shelf-life. Mercury is highly toxic and the % in the vaccines are high. Since their baby is developing in the womb now, they said NO. But you know what? The nurse kept insisting till she finally got angry and said; "Someone else WILL take it" and left the room.
Make of that what you will
I don't exactly know the system in the U.S. but a flu-shot is quite a regular thing and considering how law suits in your country work, I'd say, the governmental regulations and inspections on something as common as a flu-shot (as opposed to some experimental drug tested on a small group of volunteers etc.) must be pretty safe.
To keep governmental interference as minimal as possible is culturally traditional in the U.S. and even apparent in the way your laws are written. It's in many cases a positive thing, of course, but like anything else, when taken to extremes or fueled with misinformation or ignorance, it can result in phenomenon like the anti-vaccine movement. I don't know your friend or where he got his information from, so I'm kind of shooting in the dark here, but it seems very probable to me that he got it from some anti-vaccine internet site, the nurse who was a professional knew better, tried to explain things, got frustrated and fed up at some point and gave up.
To keep the mercury level hazardous to health when it comes to obligatory vaccines is not something a company can just get away with, especially if such information is out in the open for anyone to read. So,just speculating, his information may be coming from a manipulative or illegitimate source.
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
|
|
Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
|
|
posted October 04, 2016 07:39 AM |
|
|
|
That's the typical behaviour for spoiled brats who rely on emotional outbursts to camouflage their inability to provide reasonable arguments. Schools, colleges and universities are institutions where one has to learn to defend his point of view with reason rather than to cry offence when someone states something "controversial". Such "snowflakes" are rare enough though, no need to put them in the spotlight.
|
|
Kipshasz
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
|
|
posted October 04, 2016 08:04 AM |
|
|
Zenofex said:
That's the typical behaviour for spoiled brats who rely on emotional outbursts to camouflage their inability to provide reasonable arguments. Schools, colleges and universities are institutions where one has to learn to defend his point of view with reason rather than to cry offence when someone states something "controversial". Such "snowflakes" are rare enough though, no need to put them in the spotlight.
Yes, still a rare breed in Continental Europe, but breeding like rabbits in the US and the UK(in the most "elite" colleges)
____________
"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
|
|
Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
|
|
posted October 04, 2016 08:14 AM |
|
Edited by Gryphs at 08:19, 04 Oct 2016.
|
artu said:
I don't exactly know the system in the U.S. but a flu-shot is quite a regular thing and considering how law suits in your country work, I'd say, the governmental regulations and inspections on something as common as a flu-shot (as opposed to some experimental drug tested on a small group of volunteers etc.) must be pretty safe.
To keep governmental interference as minimal as possible is culturally traditional in the U.S. and even apparent in the way your laws are written. It's in many cases a positive thing, of course, but like anything else, when taken to extremes or fueled with misinformation or ignorance, it can result in phenomenon like the anti-vaccine movement. I don't know your friend or where he got his information from, so I'm kind of shooting in the dark here, but it seems very probable to me that he got it from some anti-vaccine internet site, the nurse who was a professional knew better, tried to explain things, got frustrated and fed up at some point and gave up.
To keep the mercury level hazardous to health when it comes to obligatory vaccines is not something a company can just get away with, especially if such information is out in the open for anyone to read. So,just speculating, his information may be coming from a manipulative or illegitimate source.
The flu shot is not obligatory in the US. Also, what is negligible to an adult could be very damaging to a fetus which was the worry in the first place. It would really depend on how much there was. I would have to agree that I doubt it is enough to cause any significant harm, but who knows.
____________
"Don't resist the force. Redirect it. Water over rock."-blizzardboy
|
|
Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted October 04, 2016 09:23 AM |
|
|
mvassilev said:
Stevie said:
No mate, there's no wit there, just pure honesty, blatant inconsistency, arrogance and entitlement, all converging into what is basically a thought crime. Forcing people to think anything else than what they want to think is absolutely a bad thing and no amount of SJW angst and triggering will ever change that. But they are so absorbed by the values they uphold and their perceived righteousness that any scrutiny or disagreement will be viewed as offensive.
The irony here is off the charts.
Only if you inferred it.
____________
Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
|
|
fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted October 04, 2016 11:32 AM |
|
|
|
every day i find the idea of tolerance more and more infuriating. it's one thing to have peace among the people; it's quite another to just roll over and get snowed for fear of being seen as intolerant. i think society should be going the other way; because this blanket-tolerance is what is causing so many people to not speak up about what needs spoken up about, and not act towards what should be acted upon. imo, people tolerate far too much; when they should be doing something about the garbage that infests everything nowadays. i'm sure everyone knows what i'm talking about when i say "garbage". it's what most people complain about, but JUST that. they never ACT against it. because they're too scared, and lazy.
|
|
markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
|
|
posted October 04, 2016 05:26 PM |
|
|
artu said:
I don't exactly know the system in the U.S. but a flu-shot is quite a regular thing and considering how law suits in your country work, I'd say, the governmental regulations and inspections on something as common as a flu-shot (as opposed to some experimental drug tested on a small group of volunteers etc.) must be pretty safe.
Had you have lived here, since you are a man of science I think you would have "met people" and "heard testimonies" that do not agree with the massive advertising campaign called the U.S. Media and our Government. Money trumps everything...probably even Trumps.
artu said:
I don't know your friend or where he got his information from, so I'm kind of shooting in the dark here,
I did well in HAZ-MAT in college and although what you think could be true...poison and toxicity-levels are something that is extremely difficult to pin down statistically in individual bodies.
However, had you really zoomed in on what I said about bringing new drugs to the market and the public arena being the testing/data ground, you would realize your impression of the US laws is very trusting and without sound basis.
i.e. I worked with lead for 22 Years, among other nasty stuff. Now there are two chief causes of toxicity in Humans, short-term and long-term exposure. Well, in the case of the Battery Manufacturing industry there were years of occupational death and illness that eventually caused "some" precautions.
However, by the mid-70s OSHA established max-levels in blood for the person to be safe in the environment and all lead-control (dust the most dangerous) depended on changing test equipment and was decision-monitored by men's blood-lead-levels. The safety threshold was at a target that after my first ten years of working had to be lowered by 25%. So for 10 years we worked in a higher level than what they adjusted for.
Bottom line? Several of our guys died in their 40s and 50s and some were bone-cancers. Now of course all could have died right on time with a DNA-mandated death but did they? There is no easy way of being truly scientific about long-term-exposure - the variables are numerous and any ONE not completely controlled within said test can ruin or skew the test.
Further, when huge profits, careers or even the economy is at risk, do you think money does not win out? Of course it does.
But again...we are talking human unborn babies here and if people want natural child-birth and want natural processes to govern how that fetus develops in every way, than that is their freedom in action. And I would also add...they are wise to not blindly trust advertising nor even Government mandates unless...there truly is a crisis.
|
|
markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
|
|
posted October 04, 2016 06:11 PM |
|
|
Children and babies being given drugs is problematic to me and could in the long-run be a small part of the OP's issues but I really wanted to talk (a little) about something "likely" related;like this
An Atheist and a Christian converse about causes for the moral decline. What do you think.
Note: Because I posted the link does not mean I am in complete agreement with one or both of these guys but I do think they bring up interesting aspects that could be part of the greater issues...like Snowflakes.
____________
"Do your own research"
|
| |
|
|
