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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions
Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions This thread is 20 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 · «PREV / NEXT»
P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted September 16, 2017 07:10 PM
Edited by P4R4D0X0N at 19:41, 16 Sep 2017.

Jluil said:
The point of having knowledge based mana regeneration is to have caster heroes not depend on castles, magic wells or artifacts.

The problem with castles is you need to stay whole turn(or at least end your turn) there and you often venture into distant lands without being close to castle.
Wells are good, they restore mana immediately but are rarely distributed evenly among the lands, so you are basically relying on luck.
With the artifacts it's even more luck based as you would need your +3 regen early, but that rarely happens.



That is why I would nerf towns and wells to only 20% refill per day. Intelligence and Mysticism would be useful, same counts for knowledge. More means more puffer and more regeneration. Spellpoints would be limited the first time and you don't have any big chance to have 100% spellpoints again, except you invest it in camping in town, what clearly weakens your progress.

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Jluil
Jluil

Tavern Dweller
posted September 17, 2017 11:52 AM

P4R4D0X0N said:
Jluil said:
The point of having knowledge based mana regeneration is to have caster heroes not depend on castles, magic wells or artifacts.

The problem with castles is you need to stay whole turn(or at least end your turn) there and you often venture into distant lands without being close to castle.
Wells are good, they restore mana immediately but are rarely distributed evenly among the lands, so you are basically relying on luck.
With the artifacts it's even more luck based as you would need your +3 regen early, but that rarely happens.



That is why I would nerf towns and wells to only 20% refill per day. Intelligence and Mysticism would be useful, same counts for knowledge. More means more puffer and more regeneration. Spellpoints would be limited the first time and you don't have any big chance to have 100% spellpoints again, except you invest it in camping in town, what clearly weakens your progress.


I don't think magic play needs any nerfs at this time, just buffs.
Well maybe some nerfs in mass lvl1 spell casting being too cheap and easy.
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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted September 17, 2017 12:00 PM

Erm, it is a buff? Since barbarians don't have any knowledge at all. with 1 manapoint per day its takes nearly 1 week (6 days) to cast slow once, when camping in town it takes 3 days. Calculate yourself, this IS a buff for magic heroes. With 3 or 4 knowledge it still takes 3 days for one slow, or 1 day in town.

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Greedfire
Greedfire


Hired Hero
posted September 18, 2017 02:19 PM

I've been thinking about rework magic in Heroes 3 lately because lot of spells are useless. I encountered problems like:
How to change it to:
- not to buff wizards
- not to nerf warriors
- not lose too many mana
- the units were not massacred by spells.

One pro player said that: "Magic isn't supposed to deal damage. Magic Talent is useless. Making a good damage mage takes a lot of time. You should use spells like Blind"

I have few separately ideas but it is possible to merge it:
- limit number of spells hero can learn (choice between Implosion or Resurrection or Clone)

- limit number of spells hero can cast all over again (resurrection nerf but Castle will not be race without casaualties)

- able to cast two spells per round (too op for wizards)

- divide spells by Damage Spells and Buff/Nerf (Stone Skin, Curse). Hero will be able to use one Damage Spell and one Buff/Nerf spell per round(but wizards can cast Resurrection with Implosion all the time and what about Blind then?) So I have an a idea. Spells like Clone, Resurrection, Blind, Slow, Haste) will be Special Spells. These special spells can be used once per round instead of double cast spell.

- still divide spells by Damage Spells, Buff Spells, Nerf Spells(yes more types) and Special Spells but Hero can use two additional spells in start turn Buff and Nerf.

- divide spells by levels. Hero can cast two spells: one 1-2 lvl spell and one 4-5 lvl spell per round. Level 3 is between so if you cast it you can choose between 1-2 or 4-5 level spells.

- divide spells by useless and useful xD

It's too hard to rework it for this game... I know these "useless" spells are situational and still used but I want to see game without rush only Slow, Haste, Resurrection, Implosion spells in battles.

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Greedfire
Greedfire


Hired Hero
posted September 18, 2017 02:28 PM

Personally I like 1, 2, 4, 6 idea and wanted to consider them with your opinion. Sorry for double post.

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Jluil
Jluil

Tavern Dweller
posted September 18, 2017 04:05 PM

It would be possible to do a quite good casting system.
But it would be too much rework so it's not going to happen in HotA.

You would need to remove all magic schools or rework how they work, as exp mass spell casting is bad design.
Rather multicasting will be allowed with the the following rules:
- only specific spells would be multicastable (buffs/debuffs like slow, haste, bloodlust, curse, weakness, dispel...)
- probably blind, berserk, hypnotise will not be multicastable
- you may only cast more spells if all of them are multicastable
- you must cast all your spells in single turn (all at once)
- your hero will have multicast limit depended on level; on level 1 hero will not be able to cast additional spells; this might be also improved by some sec skill
- perhaps it would be also possible to multicast some damaging spells with more restrictions - you cannot target the same unit and the damage is decreased by 40% for every cast
- further more damaging spell multicast would have different leveling system (e.g. starting at level 6)

This will produce more interesting gameplay with more hero specializations and high knowledge + low power heroes will have a new meaning.





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phe
phe


Famous Hero
Life and Freedom
posted September 20, 2017 08:58 AM
Edited by phe at 12:14, 20 Sep 2017.

How do you think about idea of Necromancy which costs one Movement Point(modified by Logistics bonus) for every HP animated? Instead of nerfing Necromancy in numbers and to diminish OP of Necropolis and Cloak of Undead King... Spending whole day to raise 300 skeletons...even several days if more...however some old/new necro-artifacts could speed it up...possibility of choosing between necromancy after battle or going further without using necromancy and without loosing movement points...maybe should be possible to use Animate Dead just after battle if some mana left and to make battles shorter avoiding Blind/Animate Dead combination...
____________
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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted September 25, 2017 11:40 AM
Edited by P4R4D0X0N at 11:50, 25 Sep 2017.

Greedfire said:


I have few separately ideas but it is possible to merge it:
- limit number of spells hero can learn (choice between Implosion or Resurrection or Clone)


Super bad idea, this would nerf magic drastically

Greedfire said:

- limit number of spells hero can cast all over again (resurrection nerf but Castle will not be race without casaualties)


easier way would be to make losses final and ressurect just for the battle

Greedfire said:

- able to cast two spells per round (too op for wizards)


indeed

Greedfire said:

- divide spells by Damage Spells and Buff/Nerf (Stone Skin, Curse). Hero will be able to use one Damage Spell and one Buff/Nerf spell per round(but wizards can cast Resurrection with Implosion all the time and what about Blind then?) So I have an a idea. Spells like Clone, Resurrection, Blind, Slow, Haste) will be Special Spells. These special spells can be used once per round instead of double cast spell.




HoMM4 did that kind of split too. The concept was okay but the balance is kinda snowed up (warlocks form Asylum are the only useful casters imho, coz Preserve aka Rampard revamp just summons creatures while stronghold don't have any magic at all, Life magic is only situational useful, Order spells are quite okay while Choas Magic from Asylum is super strong in case of damaging and buffing your army), same counts for the magic types, you may just cast the spells you may learn in a mageguild when you own the full talent tree for that magic, quite unique but super useless imho for a good gameplay 'coz it's super restricted.

Greedfire said:

- still divide spells by Damage Spells, Buff Spells, Nerf Spells(yes more types) and Special Spells but Hero can use two additional spells in start turn Buff and Nerf.


this would benefit might heroes aswell and wont change anything, there already are 2 sets ingame that buffs/nerfs

Greedfire said:

- divide spells by levels. Hero can cast two spells: one 1-2 lvl spell and one 4-5 lvl spell per round. Level 3 is between so if you cast it you can choose between 1-2 or 4-5 level spells.


same here, might heroes would benefit aswell and this wont change anything


Jluil said:
It would be possible to do a quite good casting system.
But it would be too much rework so it's not going to happen in HotA.

You would need to remove all magic schools or rework how they work, as exp mass spell casting is bad design.
Rather multicasting will be allowed with the the following rules:
- only specific spells would be multicastable (buffs/debuffs like slow, haste, bloodlust, curse, weakness, dispel...)
- probably blind, berserk, hypnotise will not be multicastable
- you may only cast more spells if all of them are multicastable
- you must cast all your spells in single turn (all at once)
- your hero will have multicast limit depended on level; on level 1 hero will not be able to cast additional spells; this might be also improved by some sec skill
- perhaps it would be also possible to multicast some damaging spells with more restrictions - you cannot target the same unit and the damage is decreased by 40% for every cast
- further more damaging spell multicast would have different leveling system (e.g. starting at level 6)

This will produce more interesting gameplay with more hero specializations and high knowledge + low power heroes will have a new meaning.



The solution HoMM2 and HoMM4 presented for mass spells is sophisticated. single spells -> lvl1+2 mass spells lvl3-4 and splitted. The Mass function of higher level spells is okay imho. since the spells are rare, guild takes a lot of ressources and pvp is kinda balanced with these spells atm.

phe said:
How do you think about idea of Necromancy which costs one Movement Point(modified by Logistics bonus) for every HP animated? Instead of nerfing Necromancy in numbers and to diminish OP of Necropolis and Cloak of Undead King... Spending whole day to raise 300 skeletons...even several days if more...however some old/new necro-artifacts could speed it up...possibility of choosing between necromancy after battle or going further without using necromancy and without loosing movement points...maybe should be possible to use Animate Dead just after battle if some mana left and to make battles shorter avoiding Blind/Animate Dead combination...


Bad idea tbh, necromancy is well as it is now, maybe even a 'lil underpowered imho. If you would use your necromancy suggestion for HoMM3, Necropolis is a useless town, coz movementpoints are the essence of every game.

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rerryr
rerryr


Known Hero
posted September 25, 2017 01:42 PM
Edited by rerryr at 13:48, 25 Sep 2017.

Greedfire said:


I have few separately ideas but it is possible to merge it:
- limit number of spells hero can learn (choice between Implosion or Resurrection or Clone)


- able to cast two spells per round (too op for wizards)


- divide spells by Damage Spells and Buff/Nerf (Stone Skin, Curse). Hero will be able to use one Damage Spell and one Buff/Nerf spell per round(but wizards can cast Resurrection with Implosion all the time and what about Blind then?) So I have an a idea. Spells like Clone, Resurrection, Blind, Slow, Haste) will be Special Spells. These special spells can be used once per round instead of double cast spell.


To make this system work you have to find ways so that might heroes don't benefit from these changes. Keeping that in mind, you can not take hero level as requirement to cast certain spells or cast twice per combat. Because both hero classes will get high levels.
It should be decided through the secondary skills your hero chooses and his class (and or specialists). Also the SS must have some kind of self synergy between them. This is if you mix up might and magic SS you will get some kind of hybrid which is what is currently the best option to do.
Making it so that by acquiring only magic skills you get and decent advantage that the might hero cannot have. This can be the double cast or 1 or 2 extra casts per combat, or it can be stronger damage/buff spells. It could also be the mass spell option which has been suggested many times here but this would require a major rework probably nobody wants to do.

In the current state of the game magic SS have a very low synergy which becomes useless quit fast, speaking of Intelligence, Mysticism,  Scholar and Eagle Eye. Once you have enough spell points and the right spells these SS are useless.
The might hero on the other hand scales way better with Offense/Armorer/Archery, Luck/Leadership and every additional creature he gets in his army. While these skills have no direct self synergy it scales with the army and both attack AND defense. This it not the case if you pick magic skills.

So find a way that you can unlock these buffs/advantages for the magic hero by the amount of magic oriented skills he picks and don't make them available for the might hero with just one skill (e.g. Earth Magic - Mass Slow).

Edit: I will later post some suggestions on how such synergys could look like.






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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted September 25, 2017 03:13 PM


#FTFH
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Erdamon
Erdamon


Hired Hero
posted September 27, 2017 09:49 AM

Hello. My suggestion: New artifact combination made from the 4 magic tomes. Besides providing already all the spells from the pieces, make it give a magic damage boost, like sorcery does, or let all the spells be cast with expert level

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OrrinIsTheBest
OrrinIsTheBest


Hired Hero
posted September 27, 2017 04:44 PM

Erdamon said:
Hello. My suggestion: New artifact combination made from the 4 magic tomes. Besides providing already all the spells from the pieces, make it give a magic damage boost, like sorcery does, or let all the spells be cast with expert level

Speaking of which, im surprised they didn't make a combo from trident of dominion,shield of naval glory,royal armor of nix and crown of the five seas. I mean when i saw them first i immediately looked for its combination in the map editor but was disappointed afterwards.In case you guys are planning to make one, mass shield,bless,fortune and mirth for 50 turns would be the perfect choice imo.

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Orc
Orc


Known Hero
posted October 06, 2017 05:02 AM
Edited by Orc at 07:28, 06 Oct 2017.

Hello Genie

Greetings,

My wish is to find hota + wog working together And to add cove town + cannon into my era 2 wog.

XD

Edit:
also why is jermey start with logistics?

His SS seem like copy og Pyre. But Pyre is different becuz demonics have high chance to roll lgistics (+10). Captains only have +6 to roll it. I think jermey maybe deserve navigation more but its bad cuz not all maps have navigation so I will give him Art + Archery or luck or offense, or at worst I give him advanced art.

Also, why do cove heroes have low chance for navigations? Navigator has 6% while knight and death knight and beast master all have 8% o.O? I mean they are called navigator they deserve 10% navigation lol.

I think both class must have low logistic becuz it dont fit their theme and their class name.

Also I think corkes should have offense + leadership. Captains usually have strong personality.

Last thing. Can you make ships can sail inside swap with 50% penalty? And make path finding work for it too.

Also, I think swap should not increase attack and speed of fortress. Instead, swamp increase defense and also reduce speed of other creatures than fortress,but for fortress they are ok and dont have their speed reduved cuz they are adapted to life in swamp.

Thanks

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fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted October 10, 2017 01:46 PM

it's probably already been brought up in some form or another, but what about having "rough waves" ocean terrain patches? they would work opposite how favorable winds work; ie: slow ships down, instead of speeding them up. maybe "storm waves" too, which not only slowed ships down(maybe even slower), but caused the hero to lose low-level crew members; kinda like whirlpools.

anyway, just an idea. i tried searching first(because i'm not sure if hota's darker "favorable winds"-looking terrain patches do any of this already), but came up with nothing.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted October 10, 2017 02:27 PM

Cool idea, Fred.
If it could somehow be animated properly to look dark and menacing, it would be really cool.
HotA's favorable winds all do the same, reduce movement cost at sea by 34%.

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fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted October 10, 2017 03:18 PM

phoenix4ever said:
If it could somehow be animated properly to look dark and menacing, it would be really cool.


speaking of dark and menacing, instead of "storm winds/waves", what about "sea monster territory" terrain patches? sea monsters popping their heads above the waves, movement, etc. the ship itself could "take damage", so that it eventually sinks(providing the territory was widespread enough), you lose most of your crew, but you can rehire the hero back in town after a week, with whatever army he/she had left(provided they weren't too far from land so as not to be eaten by sharks/sea monsters/krakken)?

the idea could be taken even further: when your ship goes down, it leaves a visitable shipwreck behind.

all of this would require coding, of course. but i don't see the harm in bringing up the idea; even if it doesn't get used.

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted October 10, 2017 08:30 PM

Erdamon said:
Hello. My suggestion: New artifact combination made from the 4 magic tomes. Besides providing already all the spells from the pieces, make it give a magic damage boost, like sorcery does, or let all the spells be cast with expert level


I suggested something similar:
"Tome of ultimate Wisdom (Tome of Air, Tome of Earth, Tome of Fire, Tome of Water) - saves 25% of all Manapoints when you cast a spell, also grants +3 Spellpower and +3 Wisdom"


OrrinIsTheBest said:
Erdamon said:
Hello. My suggestion: New artifact combination made from the 4 magic tomes. Besides providing already all the spells from the pieces, make it give a magic damage boost, like sorcery does, or let all the spells be cast with expert level Speaking of which, im surprised they didn't make a combo from trident of dominion,shield of naval glory,royal armor of nix and crown of the five seas. I mean when i saw them first i immediately looked for its combination in the map editor but was disappointed afterwards.In case you guys are planning to make one, mass shield,bless,fortune and mirth for 50 turns would be the perfect choice imo.


Sounds okay to me, but I personally get bored from all these spell casting artifacts like "Armor of the Damned" and the HotA implemented Battle Axe. But I like this suggestion, mirth fits perfect for Nix, same as shield and bless. super strong combination on actual Nix-Warrior balance.

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Erdamon
Erdamon


Hired Hero
posted October 18, 2017 06:03 PM

Suggestion: More players. Given the fact that the map size extrapolated immensely to Giant, I think it can benefit from an increased number of opponents. Say a maximum of 12 / 14 players on Giant

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OrrinIsTheBest
OrrinIsTheBest


Hired Hero
posted October 19, 2017 10:30 AM

Erdamon said:
Suggestion: More players. Given the fact that the map size extrapolated immensely to Giant, I think it can benefit from an increased number of opponents. Say a maximum of 12 / 14 players on Giant

First of all you can't generate bigger map than XL+U if you choose a specific template (except for Nostalgia XXL). And as to your suggestion i don't believe it would be smart to implement the idea unless we have more than 10 factions.
PS, it is possible to play any template on giant map just by changing some numbers in rmg file.

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Erdamon
Erdamon


Hired Hero
posted October 19, 2017 01:28 PM

OrrinIsTheBest said:
Erdamon said:
Suggestion: More players. Given the fact that the map size extrapolated immensely to Giant, I think it can benefit from an increased number of opponents. Say a maximum of 12 / 14 players on Giant

First of all you can't generate bigger map than XL+U if you choose a specific template (except for Nostalgia XXL). And as to your suggestion i don't believe it would be smart to implement the idea unless we have more than 10 factions.
PS, it is possible to play any template on giant map just by changing some numbers in rmg file.


I'm sorry. What ?

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