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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions
Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions This thread is 52 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 10 20 30 40 ... 48 49 50 51 52 · «PREV
phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted October 31, 2018 06:20 PM

How about a new difficulty level between Expert and Impossible, it could be called Master. (and be 180%)
Human players would start with half the ressources of Expert and AI would start with those of Expert/Impossible.
AI players would be able to buy slightly more heroes than Expert, but not as many as Impossible.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted October 31, 2018 07:49 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 20:13, 31 Oct 2018.

Buy as many as Impossible is ok. As a matter of fact Impossible is ok in every regard but this: you need at least 5 of wood and ore, so you can build something, and 5000 gold, so you can hire the two heroes with army.
But the problem is (except for Dungeon and the f...g evil eyes) you will basically have no delay, cause two heroes are enough for early exploration and the three heroes army more then enough to kick ass in the first few days.
Just make an event giving that day one and see if I'm wrong.

In fact, if possible, what I would remove for Impossible is all those limits to hiring. Let AI hire as many as 8 heroes, all factions have all of them and (maybe) teach it to dismiss the weakest to free others from prisons. (This can be tricky cause some Top custom maps use that inability).
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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted October 31, 2018 07:54 PM

Half of Expert would also be 5000 Gold, 5 Wood and Ore and 2 of each special ressource, also solving Dungeon's beholder problem.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted October 31, 2018 07:59 PM

Yup. I know.
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Orrinisthebest
Orrinisthebest


Known Hero
posted November 01, 2018 08:48 AM

Just to keep some ideas fresh:
Invisibility cloak- relic. Hero equipping it can only be detected by expert visions,exp. view air and hex checking with mouse. Also making "visions" fire spell would buff this magic school.
Still eye of the dragon is too much for a treasure artifact,please make it minor class. Same applies to boots of speed, minor -> major.

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lesso
lesso

Tavern Dweller
posted November 04, 2018 10:48 PM

Commanders

Question for HotA Crew: will be commanders mod / mechanics from WOG implemented in next release?
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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted November 04, 2018 11:27 PM

Orrinisthebest said:
Just to keep some ideas fresh:
Invisibility cloak- relic. Hero equipping it can only be detected by expert visions,exp. view air and hex checking with mouse. Also making "visions" fire spell would buff this magic school.
Still eye of the dragon is too much for a treasure artifact,please make it minor class. Same applies to boots of speed, minor -> major.


You mean the hero can't be seen on map at all? That would be super OP... I can live with the ability you wont see his units, thats a good deal imho, compared to total OP fully invisibility.

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Orrinisthebest
Orrinisthebest


Known Hero
posted November 05, 2018 06:30 AM

P4R4D0X0N said:
Orrinisthebest said:
Just to keep some ideas fresh:
Invisibility cloak- relic. Hero equipping it can only be detected by expert visions,exp. view air and hex checking with mouse. Also making "visions" fire spell would buff this magic school.
Still eye of the dragon is too much for a treasure artifact,please make it minor class. Same applies to boots of speed, minor -> major.


You mean the hero can't be seen on map at all? That would be super OP... I can live with the ability you wont see his units, thats a good deal imho, compared to total OP fully invisibility.

There are 4 ways to detect the hero with artifact equipped:
1) Exp. view air - which is casted every day and not that hard to get. 2) Expert visions (fire spell) - definitely tough one
3) Hex checking- since hero with artifact will probably hide off-road,this is more like a lottery
4) If opp picks anything in discovered area, won't be a challenge to spot it.
Now explain how OP it would be.

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted November 06, 2018 08:58 PM

In kinda every gamemode? since you cant see and attack him. AI won't and players don't see him. Unplayable in PvP and even more OP vs AI that already is dumb as bread. If you hide all units it would be okay and okay for a minor artifact. Anyway I would like a hero like Nagash in WoG. It's still a nice feature and even buffs scouting some more.

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shev441
shev441


Hired Hero
posted November 08, 2018 12:18 AM
Edited by shev441 at 00:58, 08 Nov 2018.

I guess we can all agree that some secondary skills are just bad by their concept and improving their numbers  doesn't change the situaltion. So how about fusing 2 bad skills into one?

Scholar + Eagle Eye = ACADEMIC

These skills are based around the same idea - ability to learn the  spells. Scholar makes it possible to learn from or to teach allied heroes. Eagle eye makes it possible to learn spells from heroes as well, the only difference is that in 2nd situation we are learning from our enemy. General concept of both skills remains almost the same so combining them into one seems to me like very good idea because:
- EE is to weak to be standalone secondary skill,
- Scholar is usefull on secondary heroes but for sure it's not very good as well
- Slightly buffing this skill by adding EE into it would make it more  reasonable to pick.
- We have place for new, better skill.

BASIC ACADEMICS: allows heroes to teach each other 1st and 2nd level spells, effectively trading spells between spell books and allows your hero to learn any 1st or 2nd level spell used in combat.
ADVANCED ACADEMICS : allows heroes to teach each other any spell up to 3rd level, effectively trading spells between spell books and allows your hero to learn any spell up to 3rd level used in combat.
EXPERT ACADEMICS : allows heroes to teach each other any spell up to 4th level, effectively trading spells between spell books and allows your hero to learn any spell up to 4th level used in combat.

Artifacts affecting Eagle Eye should be removed.


Pathfinding + Scouting = RECON

Pathfinding is quite useless skill in most cases. In RMG usually the only area where it make sense to have it are sands in the middle, and usually even there you try not to go to far from the main road when it's not necessery. Another situation is having army with creatures from all towns on snow or swamp, but you can use secondary heroes to create chain which will transfer these creatures- that way you avoid movement punishment for main hero. Next problem is Wayfarer boots that make this secondary skill useless.
It leads to conslusion that Pathfinding is weak skill that is helpfull only in rare situation, logistics is always a way better option. Cool idea to improve this skill would be adding scouting into it. Seeing through the shroud matches with the "finding right paths" concept and could be interesting choise for recon. On one hand you can travel on all lands without punishment but also you are able to spot strategic places. Pros:
- better alternative for logistic skill
- skill suddenly turns from weak into "quite interesting",
- we have free slot for new secondary skill.



Free slots could be filled with new secondary skills like:
- DESERTION - decreases your enemy's troops' morale by 1/2/3.
- FATE - decreases your enemy's luck by 1/2/3.

The opposite to known skills from original. They would fit to Hota's Pirate's theme and it would have interesting effect on gameplay. Now leadership and luck are below avarage cause you can quite easily find treasure artifacts that increase your morale or luck. New Hota's artifacts doesn't change the situation much cause usually thanks to Crest of Valor or Badge of Courage player has at least morale = 0, even if enemy has stuff like Demon's horseshue.

After adding into the game skills like Fate situation would change dramatically. Player would have to strongly consider picking luck or leadership. Why? Let's say that I'm playing multiplayer game, I got good SS like Offence, Tactics, Armorer and Earth magic. I have decent spells and artifacts. My morale and luck are quite alright - +2 and +2. Final fight starts and it turns out that my enemy has EXPERT DESERTION and Pendant of Doom. My morale goes from +2 to -3 and I'm in big trouble. I can try to save myself by using spells like Mirith or Fortune but I have to waste spell on that. So not only we made leadership and luck better but also we made water magic more usefull by adding there 1 more important spell.

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Sir_Juas
Sir_Juas

Tavern Dweller
posted November 08, 2018 03:43 AM

shev441 said:
I guess we can all agree that some secondary skills are just bad by their concept and improving their numbers  doesn't change the situaltion. So how about fusing 2 bad skills into one?

Scholar + Eagle Eye = ACADEMIC

These skills are based around the same idea - ability to learn the  spells. Scholar makes it possible to learn from or to teach allied heroes. Eagle eye makes it possible to learn spells from heroes as well, the only difference is that in 2nd situation we are learning from our enemy. General concept of both skills remains almost the same so combining them into one seems to me like very good idea because:
- EE is to weak to be standalone secondary skill,
- Scholar is usefull on secondary heroes but for sure it's not very good as well
- Slightly buffing this skill by adding EE into it would make it more  reasonable to pick.
- We have place for new, better skill.

BASIC ACADEMICS: allows heroes to teach each other 1st and 2nd level spells, effectively trading spells between spell books and allows your hero to learn any 1st or 2nd level spell used in combat.
ADVANCED ACADEMICS : allows heroes to teach each other any spell up to 3rd level, effectively trading spells between spell books and allows your hero to learn any spell up to 3rd level used in combat.
EXPERT ACADEMICS : allows heroes to teach each other any spell up to 4th level, effectively trading spells between spell books and allows your hero to learn any spell up to 4th level used in combat.

Artifacts affecting Eagle Eye should be removed.


Pathfinding + Scouting = RECON

Pathfinding is quite useless skill in most cases. In RMG usually the only area where it make sense to have it are sands in the middle, and usually even there you try not to go to far from the main road when it's not necessery. Another situation is having army with creatures from all towns on snow or swamp, but you can use secondary heroes to create chain which will transfer these creatures- that way you avoid movement punishment for main hero. Next problem is Wayfarer boots that make this secondary skill useless.
It leads to conslusion that Pathfinding is weak skill that is helpfull only in rare situation, logistics is always a way better option. Cool idea to improve this skill would be adding scouting into it. Seeing through the shroud matches with the "finding right paths" concept and could be interesting choise for recon. On one hand you can travel on all lands without punishment but also you are able to spot strategic places. Pros:
- better alternative for logistic skill
- skill suddenly turns from weak into "quite interesting",
- we have free slot for new secondary skill.



Free slots could be filled with new secondary skills like:
- DESERTION - decreases your enemy's troops' morale by 1/2/3.
- FATE - decreases your enemy's luck by 1/2/3.

The opposite to known skills from original. They would fit to Hota's Pirate's theme and it would have interesting effect on gameplay. Now leadership and luck are below avarage cause you can quite easily find treasure artifacts that increase your morale or luck. New Hota's artifacts doesn't change the situation much cause usually thanks to Crest of Valor or Badge of Courage player has at least morale = 0, even if enemy has stuff like Demon's horseshue.

After adding into the game skills like Fate situation would change dramatically. Player would have to strongly consider picking luck or leadership. Why? Let's say that I'm playing multiplayer game, I got good SS like Offence, Tactics, Armorer and Earth magic. I have decent spells and artifacts. My morale and luck are quite alright - +2 and +2. Final fight starts and it turns out that my enemy has EXPERT DESERTION and Pendant of Doom. My morale goes from +2 to -3 and I'm in big trouble. I can try to save myself by using spells like Mirith or Fortune but I have to waste spell on that. So not only we made leadership and luck better but also we made water magic more usefull by adding there 1 more important spell.


I really like those fusions, and the new skills seem pretty nice after your explanation. Very good stuff!

Lets pray HotA comes with it sooner or later

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted November 08, 2018 08:29 AM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 09:21, 08 Nov 2018.

Desertion and Fate seems interesting and would indeed make Leadership, Luck, Mirth and Fortune more important. I'm not sure about the names Desertion and Fate though.
Never been a fan of merging skills, but Eagle Eye needs to be much better and Wayfarer's Boots should just be removed as they completely ruin Pathfinding.

Edit:
Desertion could be called Discourage instead, seems more in line with what the skill actually would do. Desertion seems more like you could make some of the enemy troops leave, like a reverse Diplomacy...

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planetavril
planetavril


Adventuring Hero
posted November 08, 2018 11:21 AM

perhaps a trivial question: is there anyone who thinks that in hota 2.0 will insert the kronwerk as they said at the beginning? since in hota 1.5.3 they have added new terrain and snowy mountains

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Hourglass
Hourglass


Adventuring Hero
posted November 08, 2018 11:15 PM

shev441 said:


Scholar + Eagle Eye = ACADEMIC

These skills are based around the same idea - ability to learn the  spells. Scholar makes it possible to learn from or to teach allied heroes. Eagle eye makes it possible to learn spells from heroes as well, the only difference is that in 2nd situation we are learning from our enemy. General concept of both skills remains almost the same so combining them into one seems to me like very good idea because:
- EE is to weak to be standalone secondary skill,
- Scholar is usefull on secondary heroes but for sure it's not very good as well
- Slightly buffing this skill by adding EE into it would make it more  reasonable to pick.
- We have place for new, better skill.


I think this is overall a good idea, and should be considered, if Hota team wants to keep EE kind of effect in the game. Scholar and EE nicely synergize together. However, removing Eagle eye is still a relevant choice, and I think Hota crew is even considering it, as few things are pointing towards it:

1) Not a single Navigator has Eagle Eye as their starting skill. They're damn Navigators, if there's a class that could have Eagle Eye, it's them and no one else.

2) Hota introduced Spell research, which further diminishes the usage of Eagle Eye. Sav even stated that the team understands what Spell research means for EE.

3) Few hota maps have completely disabled Eagle Eye, so heroes will not learn it.

However, few things that should be considered when talking about academic:

1) The artifacts are removed, which is good, but what happens to the EE heroes?

2) One should not expect this skill to become reasonable - it is still pretty much as good (and bad) as the original Scholar.  This is because there still isn't much usage for two heroes with Academic/Scholar. I don't see much reasons how Academic would become much more picked than the regular Scholar is.

shev441 said:

Pathfinding + Scouting = RECON

Pathfinding is quite useless skill in most cases. In RMG usually the only area where it make sense to have it are sands in the middle, and usually even there you try not to go to far from the main road when it's not necessery. Another situation is having army with creatures from all towns on snow or swamp, but you can use secondary heroes to create chain which will transfer these creatures- that way you avoid movement punishment for main hero. Next problem is Wayfarer boots that make this secondary skill useless.
It leads to conslusion that Pathfinding is weak skill that is helpfull only in rare situation, logistics is always a way better option. Cool idea to improve this skill would be adding scouting into it. Seeing through the shroud matches with the "finding right paths" concept and could be interesting choise for recon. On one hand you can travel on all lands without punishment but also you are able to spot strategic places. Pros:
- better alternative for logistic skill
- skill suddenly turns from weak into "quite interesting",
- we have free slot for new secondary skill.



This is also a fine idea, but don't expect it to change things that much. Scouting is a really good skill for scouts, and they will pick the skill anyway. As what comes to the "main heroes", they will pick Logistics, so unfortunately Recon wouldn't become a real alternative for logistics. As you mentioned, there are several ways of getting around terrain penalties, so the heroes would still mostly be left with only the "Scouting" part of the skill.

shev441 said:

Free slots could be filled with new secondary skills like:
- DESERTION - decreases your enemy's troops' morale by 1/2/3.
- FATE - decreases your enemy's luck by 1/2/3.



I like the idea that with your changes, there would be more space for new skills. However, they could do something more unique than just lowering morale and luck. I think what Luck and Leadership are mostly bad, because they don't really do anything special; there are multiple ways (objects, artifacts, etc.) of getting luck and morale. To make Luck and Leadership more intresting, they should give unique bonuses to make player's see potential in them. Adding more skills to the game to make existing (bad) skills worthy doesn't sound like a very good plan.


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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted November 08, 2018 11:46 PM

The morale and luck cap could also just be increased to +/-5.
With a normal army even expert Leadership is partly wasted, since it would bring you to +4 (or +5 if you have angels)
Of course this would buff Castle, which are already very strong, so perhaps not a good idea.
There just does'nt seem to be any good reasons to pick Leadership or Luck, you only take them if you get offered something worse at level up.

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted November 10, 2018 08:18 PM

I'm okay with new skills but changing old ones too much would crash the whole system, a rebalance in small steps is well enough imho. Scounting was already buffed and is on a good level imho. A mechanic for regrowing shadow could be also added, and it isnt that hard to implement compared to fog of war. Anyway, new skills are always nice but combine old ones wouldn't be a good solution.

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Orrinisthebest
Orrinisthebest


Known Hero
posted November 10, 2018 08:58 PM

P4R4D0X0N said:
Anyway, new skills are always nice but combine old ones wouldn't be a good solution.

Situational. Merging artillery and ballistics will definitely bring out a skill that could easily compete with skills like resistance,armorer,leadership etc.

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted November 10, 2018 10:26 PM

Okay...you got me there, thats an useful even situational combination, anyway in HotA especially the cannon has its benefits also in both case that needs to be balanced.

Some more tweeks...
- Pathfinding: additional movementpoints per level (50, 100, 150)

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radex115544
radex115544

Tavern Dweller
posted November 11, 2018 12:39 PM

Hello I would like to ask if he would be able to increase the AI of computer opponents to have their artifacts programmed together? For necromancers, the undead king's cloak for the sword castle of an angelic alliance, etc. on random maps would make the gameplay diversified

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