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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: Forge mentality
Thread: Forge mentality This thread is 9 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 · «PREV / NEXT»
OxFEA
OxFEA


Promising
Famous Hero
feanor on DF2.ru
posted June 24, 2017 10:32 AM

Baronus said:
I want it good because idea was good but how to realise it?
I not contra forge mods!  I ONLY TOLD HOW TO DO IT CORRECTLY! 1 forge + 9 medieval cities is absurd. But now in VCMI we can do a lot of techno factions! Do if you like!


So, some Baronus doesn't know, and all others must do as he SAYS!11. Good. Bourgeois democracy.

And because some Baronus haven't imagination or just doesn't study history good enough, he thinks that knights should battle only with knights and tanks only with tanks, and other plots have no right to exist.

P.S. Even if you replace all towns with hi-tech counterparts, you don't get sf-HIII, you'll get only 9 sf-towns in fantasy-medieval game. Artifacts. Skills. Spells. Gameplay at all. Even interface!

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Macron1
Macron1


Supreme Hero
posted June 24, 2017 10:45 AM

OxFEA said:
Artifacts. Skills. Spells. Gameplay at all. Even interface!


It all can be changed if one has need.
Skills only need icons replaced.
Spells also only need icons and names replaced. There is Land Mine spell, that already is ready for technowar.
Interface is the easiest part, just prepare replacing skins.
Gameplay is good as it is.

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Baronus
Baronus


Supreme Hero
posted June 24, 2017 12:03 PM

Yes artifacts icons can be changed easy to techno style. Spells can be redesign to technologies and mage guilds to techno centers. Skill icons like luck or attack dont needed  redesign. In present times armies using icons with swords, shields etc. Interface? Some screens? Title ? Begin and loading? How many mods is? But we have mod NEW INTERFACE! Modern style. Something else?

I think that Heroes mechanics is wonderful to sci fi cosmic techno climate. Changing graphic is enough!

PS. History? What "historical" books you read where knights win fight with tanks :-):-):-)

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salubri
salubri


Adventuring Hero
posted June 24, 2017 12:47 PM
Edited by salubri at 13:33, 24 Jun 2017.

Xfing said:


Quote:

Meh, dunno about that. They're just zombies with metal arms, nothing resistant about them. I think you may be right about disease, but I like the "open wounds" effect I came up with better.

Quote:

Pyro/Pyromaniac no retaliation for upgraded version.


Nah, I don't see that. They're just guys with flamethrowers, and not even dragons can stop you from retaliating, and their attacks do pretty much the same thing.

Quote:

Tank/Heavy Tank sounds ok but i want to nerf it to cerberus type atack and add no retaliation to upgraded version like upgraded nagas have. (i like that you didnt remove nagas ranged weapons like in concept art. she can have them and still be hand to hand fighter)


You're right. All around them is too much, they can't really fire in a cone as wide. 3 hexes like the Cerberus would be alright. I'm not sure if no counter should be an option, since the Jump Soldiers already have that. Maybe just give the upgraded ones the basic harpy ability of returning after an attack and give only the upgraded tanks no counter? Yeah, it would in fact be more logical, with them laying suppressing fire with their uzis and all.

Quote:

Juggernaut/Dreadnought mechanical (so no morale or luck, certain spells have no effect) golem type (gold and diamond) magic dmg resist. Immune to slow.


Agreed with pretty much everything here, amazingly good points. Stone and iron golems do have the same type of resist too though. Due to the unit's size I'd give them 50% magic damage reduction. Immune to slow is quite sensible, though to be honest in my mind's eye I see these units as basically tanks too, though much bigger, heavier and kinda cubic. At any rate, they do have to be big and bulky, whatever shape you go with.

And I'd play the crap outta a forge like this! I need to write these unit specs down somewhere, they might be needed for suggesting to some designers sometime

EDIT: You said you'd be interested in making a Forge mod yourself - well what do you say you try the unit stats I proposed? I made them to be very powerful and borderline OP, but did so within reason. I think the values would be pretty good, along with the cost and growth.

Baronus said:
If you edit other cities forge will not be strong :-) Where is sense?
Covenant is techno city like forge and easy can be add with fited story. But forge and peasant? How looks fight tridents contra tanks? And I think about sense like this. Not about story. Forge faction was removed because player protested, dont fit to knights, peasants, pikemans etc.


You got a point on pyros. Then maybe replace no retaliation with minotaur like positive morale or what could be perfect it would be an ability to detonate on death. Kind of makes sence when you know what happens to the flamethrover liquid storage when it is damaged. But i dont know how to write an ability like that. Explosion on death. Maybe replace with fire shield.

Tanks arent fast enough for strike and return. But they could also be immune to slow. Cause no legs and no stamina needed to move.

Juggernauts could look something like security droids in M&M 7. Since forge is all about copying technology. They could just copy security droids aquired from lincoln and add some upgrades. Juggernaut could be a heavy walker unit. Steam dragons in factory faction are close to what i imagine. Just need to be more armored. More heavy walker like. Oh and add fearless ability. Machines dont feel fear.

Ill try to make those unit abilities, prices and stats in game and test them. Still dont know what to do with pyro. Explosion makes sence but i dont know how to write that ability. I need to see how phoenix ability is writen.

What do you think about special buildings? Tesla coil and oil rig? Tesla coil could give titans bolt ability when defending i think. Just like Titans thunder artifact. Oil rig could provide additional 250-500 gold or maybe like Rampart faction building give 10% gold.

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salubri
salubri


Adventuring Hero
posted June 24, 2017 03:38 PM
Edited by salubri at 15:47, 24 Jun 2017.

I noticed that you wrote stats that arent the best. So i took a look at all creatures in all factions and took the best stats, prices and growth from every level creature. Its only for upgraded versions. I didnt fix speed cause no need for that except lv5. I think jet packs give a lot of speed. So final should look like this. Here are yours and fixes on the right side.

Grunt/Foot Soldier

Atk: 4/5 (6)
Def: 4/5 (6)
Dmg: 1-3/2-4
Shots: 24/32
Health: 6/7 (10)
Speed: 5/7
Growth: 12/17/22 basic(12)
Price: 75/95

Cyber Dead/Cyber Zombie

Atk: 6/7 (9)
Def: 5/7 (9)
Dmg: 3-4/3-5 (3-8)
Health: 18/22 (25)
Speed: 4/5
Growth: 7/10/14 basic(5)
Price: 150/175 (300)

Pyro/Pyromaniac

Atk: 8/10
Def: 7/7 (10)
Dmg: 2-7/4-7
Health: 25/30 (35)
Speed: 6/7
Growth: 6/8/11 basic (4)
Price: 230/260

Stinger/Bruiser

Atk: 14/15
Def: 7/9 (12)
Dmg: 6-12/8-12
Shots: 12/24
Health: 50/60
Speed: 4/5
Growth: 4/5/7 basic(3)
Price: 400/550

Jump Trooper/Jump Soldier

Atk: 15/17
Def: 14/16
Dmg: 14-22/16-22
Health: 55/60 (70)
Speed: 9/13 (15)/(21) Firebird/Phoenix
Growth: 3/4/5 basic(2)
Price: 650/800 (900)

Tank/Heavy Tank

Atk: 17/20
Def: 16/16 (18)
Dmg: 20-30/25-35
Health: 120/125
Speed: 8/10
Growth: 2/2/3 basic(1)
Price: 1400/1800

Juggernaut/Dreadnought

Atk: 25/35
Def: 25/35
Dmg: 50-55/50-55
Health: 200/350
Speed: 6/9
Growth: 1/1/1
Price: 3500, +1 mercury, +1 sulfur, +1 crystals/6000, +2 mercury, +1 sulfur, +1 crystals

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Baronus
Baronus


Supreme Hero
posted June 24, 2017 05:26 PM

Juggeraut or drednought was descripted as rhinoceros. So I think this time NWC inspired Warhammer. Something like this:


I think it means I was Behemoth in steel techno armor, because all other units are old one with techno weapon. Castore has army from various cities.

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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Oh, Kiss Me Like Erwin Tonight
posted June 24, 2017 05:33 PM

Baronus said:
Juggeraut or drednought was descripted as rhinoceros.


by who mate lol
____________

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OxFEA
OxFEA


Promising
Famous Hero
feanor on DF2.ru
posted June 24, 2017 05:50 PM

Baronus said:
Yes artifacts icons can be changed easy to techno style. Spells can be redesign to technologies and mage guilds to techno centers. Skill icons like luck or attack dont needed  redesign. In present times armies using icons with swords, shields etc. Interface? Some screens? Title ? Begin and loading? How many mods is? But we have mod NEW INTERFACE! Modern style. Something else?


So you shouldn't say: "I'M NOT AGANIST ABOUT FORGE MODS IN HIII JUST..." because you are really want something that will be not a HIII.
"I'M NOT AGANIST ABOUT FORGE MODS IN HIII I'M JUST AGANIST ABOUT FORGE MODS IN HIII."

Baronus said:
I think that Heroes mechanics is wonderful to sci fi cosmic techno climate. Changing graphic is enough!

Who cares what do you think? You think that Covenant will "fit" to somewhere, ehm.

Baronus said:
PS. History? What "historical" books you read where knights win fight with tanks :-):-):-)

Where I say _win_? I say - fight.
Cavalry vs tanks: at early stages of WWII, at civil war in Russia, probably - other interbellum wars. In some cases they'll even played significant role in battle.
Wars with primitive societies, like opening of Japan (not tanks ofc, but ironclads), colonial wars etc. Mostly even spears vs machine guns: Fuzzy-Wuzzy, yeah.

And Forge isn't pure "tanks" - it's the same "knights" generals with "knight" doctrines, "knight" commanders and officers with "knight" tactics and "knight" soldiers - only armed with "tanks" weapons. From some points of view this army will be even weaker than common.
Represent it in H3 will be hard, but, I hope, not impossible.

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Avonu
Avonu


Promising
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
posted June 24, 2017 05:59 PM

Baronus said:
Juggeraut or drednought was descripted as rhinoceros. So I think this time NWC inspired Warhammer. Something like this




Fixed
____________
"When someone desires information, they come to me."
"Details are everything."
Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!

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Galaad
Galaad


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Forge activist
posted June 24, 2017 05:59 PM

OxFEA said:
Represent it in H3 will be hard, but, I hope, not impossible.


VCMI's MDT did an outstanding job imo, just need fred79's terrains on AM now.
____________
"Corribus is a teddy bear" - Blizzardboy

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Xfing
Xfing


Hired Hero
posted June 24, 2017 06:32 PM

As for the stats - oh well. You decided to make every unit absolutely OP to the limits, but I guess that's pretty much ok, since you raised prices accordingly and lowered the growth even further. I'd be happy to try out a Forge like this - the units are going to be tons of fun individually.

Only maybe I wouldn't go so nuts with the speed of the jump soldier. Maybe you could make it 10/14, but any higher is just overkill.

As for the juggernaut - I really like that mechanical bull of sorts idea, pretty cool. And no Baronus, it doesn't have to be a behemoth in armor. Just because Kastore borrows creatures from other towns, why does it have to mean that the Juggernaut has to be that way as well? Your way of thinking is extremely inside-the-box, I'm beginning to understand why you don't like the idea of the Forge in a "medieval" setting, as it were.

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Baronus
Baronus


Supreme Hero
posted June 24, 2017 06:47 PM

I told a lot Im contra one techno city in medieval HIII rest. But I can accept redesign ALL Heroes to techno game. In this case Covenant fit.

WWII calvary and medieval knights is completly another question. Canadian horse police exsist but they are not a knights :-) WWII cavalry has tanks, machine guns, radio. If you see horseman it doesnt mean he is from medieval ages. Japan army ,,samurays" are mechanized too. They have swords like we sabres but it doesnt mean that sword was basic Japan WWII weapon:-)

Primitive tribes was exterminated by modern weapon. It was not a war. In HIII you must win battle eg. Castle contra Forge.

Rhino. Sorry I cant find it in english. Maybe someone knows? But in Warhammer I found juggeraut this type. I think it was Behemoth.
Its easy. Which 7 lvl NWC used?
1. Devils no Kreegans was used in RoE
2. Bone dragons ?
3. Black dragons ?
4. Phonixes no its elemetal unit
5. Hydras - no units from this city in forge
6. Behemots?
7. Angels no because Erathia fought aggainst
8. Green dragons no - Gelu fought too
9. Titans?
I think that was techno Behemoth because other option is only titan or dragon.

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salubri
salubri


Adventuring Hero
posted June 24, 2017 06:50 PM

Baronus said:
Juggeraut or drednought was descripted as rhinoceros. So I think this time NWC inspired Warhammer. Something like this:

Is it because of this?

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salubri
salubri


Adventuring Hero
posted June 24, 2017 07:07 PM

Xfing said:
As for the stats - oh well. You decided to make every unit absolutely OP to the limits, but I guess that's pretty much ok, since you raised prices accordingly and lowered the growth even further. I'd be happy to try out a Forge like this - the units are going to be tons of fun individually.


I tried them already with modified stats and they seem to be pretty ok. Even with double shot goblins arent much because of low numbers. I think i need to add some skills that dont change much during battle in order to raise the cost for the units. Cause as i said i want players to think what to buy and dont use "buy out all units" strategy. Maybe add something like fearless ability. Ill change minotaurs to your suggested speed i think.

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Avonu
Avonu


Promising
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
posted June 24, 2017 07:14 PM
Edited by Avonu at 19:17, 24 Jun 2017.

salubri said:
Baronus said:
Juggeraut or drednought was descripted as rhinoceros. So I think this time NWC inspired Warhammer. Something like this:


Is it because of this?



No, becuase of this:

____________
"When someone desires information, they come to me."
"Details are everything."
Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!

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Macron1
Macron1


Supreme Hero
posted June 24, 2017 07:19 PM

Baronus said:
because other option is only titan or dragon.


Titan is already mechanism.
And we had mechadragons in MM7/8 and in HMM4. So it must be mecha dragon I think.

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Baronus
Baronus


Supreme Hero
posted June 24, 2017 07:54 PM
Edited by Baronus at 20:07, 24 Jun 2017.

Thanks Salubri I forgot forge puzzle.
As you see "rhino":

Rather more techno Juggeraut from Warhammer.

It may be Behemoth or Gorgone! Gorgone is very possible.
Dragons are in puzzle map too... Maybe? One of 3 strongest? Faerie not.
But mechagorgone is first choice.

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salubri
salubri


Adventuring Hero
posted June 24, 2017 08:33 PM
Edited by salubri at 20:40, 24 Jun 2017.

Baronus said:
Thanks Salubri I forgot forge puzzle.
As you see "rhino":

Rather more techno Juggeraut from Warhammer.

It may be Behemoth or Gorgone! Gorgone is very possible.
Dragons are in puzzle map too... Maybe? One of 3 strongest? Faerie not.
But mechagorgone is first choice.



Or maybe its just a neutral unit that wasnt released or one of possible designs. Like when it comes to pyro it was said that it was magogs but in screenshots we see humans wielding flamethrowers and not magogs. So juggernauts could be either rhinos or two leg or maybe four leg heavy walkers but fully mechanical. Rhino could go with same ability as champions. Dmg per title walked.

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Baronus
Baronus


Supreme Hero
posted June 24, 2017 08:58 PM

All city was unreleased:-) We have only concepts. First concept was full units recycling. So 7 lvl too. If we have name "rhino" and puzzle look like gorgone and Warhammer unit... Three similiar facts... Its first option in this case.

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Avonu
Avonu


Promising
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
posted June 24, 2017 09:35 PM
Edited by Avonu at 21:36, 24 Jun 2017.

It's a boar (rider) or rather one of its concept art. Neutral dragons weren't part of Forge line-up (boar also wansn't) but they are present on puzzle map for whatever reason.

Puzzle maps have some old creature desing on them, like for example Stronghold puzzle map has old goblin design (with risen shield) throw in.


____________
"When someone desires information, they come to me."
"Details are everything."
Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!

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