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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: Forge mentality
Thread: Forge mentality This thread is 10 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 · «PREV / NEXT»
Xfing
Xfing


Hired Hero
posted June 24, 2017 09:50 PM
Edited by Xfing at 21:59, 24 Jun 2017.

I agree, that thing in the puzzle artwork clearly is an unmounted boar, probably the boars were originally intended to be unmounted. I have no idea why anyone would think that has anything to do with the Juggernaut.

BTW Salubri - I didn't mean the comeback ability for upgraded tanks, but for upgraded jump troopers, without stopping counterattacks, because the upgraded tank would have that. As for pyros - I like your ability of making them explode on death, but it's a bit far-fetched. It's not that easy to make their fuel tanks go off, they'd only believably explode after heat-based attacks such as those by dragons. I really think with awesome stats like this the only skill they really need is "breath attack" like the dragons and phoenixes have. Otherwise I'm pretty fine with your lineup I guess.

Baronus said:
Its easy. Which 7 lvl NWC used?
1. Devils no Kreegans was used in RoE
2. Bone dragons ?
3. Black dragons ?
4. Phonixes no its elemetal unit
5. Hydras - no units from this city in forge
6. Behemots?
7. Angels no because Erathia fought aggainst
8. Green dragons no - Gelu fought too
9. Titans?
I think that was techno Behemoth because other option is only titan or dragon.



Or, you know, it could be none of these things? Again, just because the Forge lineup is almost entirely modified units, that doesn't mean that the Juggernaut can't be something entirely new. Just like not all units from the Conflux are elementals, there are also pixies and phoenixes. It stands to reason that the Forge should also have a unit which is its own entirely.

Another problem is that what's describing a "hulking beast, purely  mechanical" is quite difficult to conceptualize. I'd really be fine with that rhino/bull creature, it looks badass

Oh, and on another of your points, Baronus: you're saying that futuristic stuff is only a very minor portion of MM6 and 7. That's true, but that has clear plot justifications. Enroth is a world devolved to barbarism after more than a thousand years of no contact and guidance with the Ancients. That's why it's a primarily savage world, with vestiges of a futuristic civilization hidden here and there. And that's precisely why the Forge is fine for Heroes - the proportion would be maintained. Everything in the game is high fantasy: the artifacts, the creatures - with the sole exception of the Forge. It makes perfect sense in terms of lore, setting and every other conceivable aspect.

Transposing the entire game to futuristic sci-fi just so the Forge wouldn't "stick out" is therefore a really missed idea.

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Baronus
Baronus


Supreme Hero
posted June 24, 2017 10:18 PM
Edited by Baronus at 22:21, 24 Jun 2017.

Its hard talking about final forge based on some words and weird puzzle map. But rhino, juggeraut and Warhammer rhino/juggeraut tell us what was concept.
Yes we have scifi background of MM world  but we dont play bacground but game. MMVI/VII Games in 98% are non scifi. Jadame is 99,9999% non scifi... Sci fi is only final ornament and in MMVIII in final video at end. Forge gives 1/9 = 11,1% permanent scifi content at the game begin... A lot and dont fited. Its not final 2% gameplay. But 100% if you change it. If we would get blaster or something like that after puzzle completing it wasnt so bad looking like start game with forge.

Using game egine to scfi concept is VERY GOOD IDEA! For me Heroes III in cosmos is my wish!

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Xfing
Xfing


Hired Hero
posted June 25, 2017 03:22 PM
Edited by Xfing at 15:48, 25 Jun 2017.

Look, just because the sci-fi elements take little in terms of volume, doesn't mean they are not important. You're forgetting about the overarching plot. Had NWC been able to finish up to MM13 as intended, it's likely that we would have seen the end of the Silence and much more Ancient technology or something.

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salubri
salubri


Adventuring Hero
posted June 25, 2017 05:57 PM

Xfing said:
Look, just because the sci-fi elements take little in terms of volume, doesn't mean they are not important. You're forgetting about the overarching plot. Had NWC been able to finish up to MM13 as intended, it's likely that we would have seen the end of the Silence and much more Ancient technology or something.


Yeah that makes sence because in M&M8 ending Escaton sent a messenger telling that he had failed. So in the future there might have been a faction sent by the ancients to deal with this or maybe ancients themselves arriving. Also the second invasion by the kreegans is a good possibility. If AB and SOF didnt clash maybe H4 would have been in Jadamane cause we only saw a tiny part of it in M&M8. Dark elf faction, pirates of regna and ect. We already have Regna (Cove) in H3

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Baronus
Baronus


Supreme Hero
posted June 25, 2017 07:10 PM

Lincoln quest was added from nothing. We can finish game in moment when we win with Zenofex. And all will be the same. Sci Fi is only extra addon. MMVIII has the best fabula and no sci fi. I dont see its very important. Ofcourse it dont break nothing. Just small extra addon. But I as said Im not contra scifi only it must fit.

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Xfing
Xfing


Hired Hero
posted June 28, 2017 02:57 PM
Edited by Xfing at 14:58, 28 Jun 2017.

It totally does though. I suggest you play MM 3-5.

Also, how does the Lincoln not fit? How else would the advisors arrive on Enroth?

Ending the game on killing Xenofex would have been anticlimactic.

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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Erwin Loses A Kidney
posted June 28, 2017 03:13 PM

bear in mind that to say the sci fi in Might and Magic is an insignificant addon at the end of the fabula is to completely miss the point mate, the sci fi twists to turn everything on its head and reveal that the world is not what it seems are the whole thing the fabula builds up to, you cannot take that out lol

if you do not like the sci fi that is for you but you must not try to retcon it or deny it is there, that is an Erwin position of sticking one's fingers in one's ears which is not very honest, dignified or fruitful, at the end of the day it is what it is and cannot be altered lol

also bear in mind Xenofex is an alien from outer space and his hive is a spaceship with laser blasters cheers lol
____________

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Baronus
Baronus


Supreme Hero
posted June 28, 2017 03:20 PM
Edited by Baronus at 15:22, 28 Jun 2017.

Advisors can arrived by portals like MMIV.
Ending of MMVI anticlimatic because we defeat kreegan center?
Sci Fi is completly dont needed in MMVI-VIII its only final ornament.
In MMVI Kreegans can be monsters from another world who want destroy Enroth. All is the same.
In MMVII too. Kastore and co May be warlocks or necromants and invented danger power.
In MMVIII we need only correct outro small robot and Escaton inside. All the same.
...

To compare try remove medieval resources. No axes swords armor. No dragons griffins castles knights etc etc. NO GAME!
Removing sci is fast and easy. Removing medieval is game anihilation.

This test tell us what is this game. Medieval like with some scifi ornaments.

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salubri
salubri


Adventuring Hero
posted June 28, 2017 05:17 PM
Edited by salubri at 19:53, 28 Jun 2017.

Baronus said:
Advisors can arrived by portals like MMIV.
Ending of MMVI anticlimatic because we defeat kreegan center?
Sci Fi is completly dont needed in MMVI-VIII its only final ornament.
In MMVI Kreegans can be monsters from another world who want destroy Enroth. All is the same.
In MMVII too. Kastore and co May be warlocks or necromants and invented danger power.
In MMVIII we need only correct outro small robot and Escaton inside. All the same.
...

To compare try remove medieval resources. No axes swords armor. No dragons griffins castles knights etc etc. NO GAME!
Removing sci is fast and easy. Removing medieval is game anihilation.

This test tell us what is this game. Medieval like with some scifi ornaments.



You wont lose much because most of the game is fantasy. Like Tower town is only magical units. So removing medieval wont change them much. They even have a flying ship as a grail. We want to stick to the original story while you want want to change the story because of your (MM should be medieval) vision. It doesnt matter what kind of ratio it is between medieval, fantasy and sci-fi. The only thing that matters is if its a part of the story. Its like plane of earth town that i saw recently. When it comes to story that town makes sence. Cause all those planes not only had buildings but also castles.

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Baronus
Baronus


Supreme Hero
posted June 29, 2017 12:40 PM
Edited by Baronus at 12:46, 29 Jun 2017.

Tower is sci fi? Because balloon? Sorry ... In medieval ages they invented some technics like catapultas etc. Baloon is acteptable because its old technology. Practicaly after WWII its only sport. Magic is medieval too... Im not aggainist scifi. Its only thinking exercise to know how is game chracter. Of course there are sci fi elements and its fact. I never told there not.

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AncientDruids
AncientDruids


Known Hero
BEware THe DRuids
posted June 29, 2017 01:37 PM
Edited by AncientDruids at 13:39, 29 Jun 2017.

Baronus said:
Tower is sci fi? Because balloon?

And because of literal landmines and a factory with pipes and cogs. You know, things invented in modern times?

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Baronus
Baronus


Supreme Hero
posted June 29, 2017 02:01 PM

:-):-):-)
I wonder...You want to discuss or hate. I had bad experience with you and its 3 your post down my... always attack...
"Sci fi" medieval cog  :-)

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AncientDruids
AncientDruids


Known Hero
BEware THe DRuids
posted June 29, 2017 02:57 PM
Edited by AncientDruids at 15:11, 29 Jun 2017.

Baronus said:
I wonder...You want to discuss or hate.

Didn't a thought occur to you that you might be wrong?
And didn't thought occur to you that pointing that out doesn't necessarily mean 'hate'?

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Baronus
Baronus


Supreme Hero
posted June 29, 2017 04:43 PM

You walk into the topic and immediately accuse me of hypocrisy, even though for long time It was
explained with Verriker that it was mistake. Thats nothing for you. You use false pseudoarguments:
http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=36829&pagenumber=5

Cog is history not sci fi future. Pipes was in ancient. Metal foil too. Eg armor. Tower has magical pseudotechnology look but its opposite to scifi. Hero is horseman. Discussion must be with sense and honest.

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AncientDruids
AncientDruids


Known Hero
BEware THe DRuids
posted June 30, 2017 02:20 AM
Edited by AncientDruids at 09:08, 30 Jun 2017.

Baronus said:
even though for long time It was
explained with Verriker that it was mistake.

If you want to continue a discussion from the other thread, fine. Maybe I haven't made myself clear, but in the same thread you accused Cockatrice and Dodo of being too similar and presented three rocks in a town line-up as an exemplary case. How can you claim there's any logic in this?

Baronus said:
You use false pseudoarguments:

What. What does that even mean.

Baronus said:
Cog is history not sci fi future. Pipes was in ancient. Metal foil too. Eg armor. Tower has magical pseudotechnology look but its opposite to scifi. Hero is horseman. Discussion must be with sense and honest.

Dude, the discussion is two decades old, but there are sci-fi elements in Heroes III. They're subtle and placed with taste, but you can see them if you don't close your eyes.
If you consider peasants, knights in stone castles, elves in thatched huts, mages in towers and dragons of lore as a prevalent theme, any element of technology that reaches beyond stereotypical medieval times is from the said perspective a model science fiction. That's not to mention there's a literal FACTORY in Tower. Does it look like this? No, it looks like an oil rafinery from at least XX century. Catapults shoot rocks. What? No! They shoot naval mines, that explode upon impact. Do rocks do that? Noooo, they crumble in a cloud of dust. Like in Heroes I and Heroes II. And don't let me start on what's inside Inferno's castle and what Armageddon spell directly alludes to.

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fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted June 30, 2017 08:36 AM

Baronus said:
For me Heroes III in cosmos is my wish!


you rang?*

*spoken in the voice of lurch adams





i haven't even started fleshing my planeswalker plans out, really. it's a bulk project that will require coding knowledge that i do not possess, in order to fulfill.


also: how can you be against sci-fi, and for it at the same time? are you reversing your previous argument because you've seen the horrendous error of your ways?

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Drslash
Drslash

Tavern Dweller
posted June 30, 2017 08:56 AM

"If I told you the origin of the Arch Angels I'm sure many of you would have a heart attack" -- Greg Fulton

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Baronus
Baronus


Supreme Hero
posted June 30, 2017 11:01 AM

AncientDruids
..

I stop discuss with you. You are hater or you completly dont know what you talk. None normal see scifi in heroes III. If sci fi is smith castle is scifi. Its so stupid that nothing to tell its contrproductive and its lost a time.

... I "dont like scifi"...

Only crazy man see in heroes III game with scifi elements. Its fact not I like or dislike.
FACTS AND LIKES OR DISLIKES ARE ANOTHER QUESTION!
If you like scifi it means that you see scifi everywhere? In XIV century Europe too? Nonsense.
...

Yes heroes III of steam and sky! I think about mod rebuild Heroes III to Steamage! Baloons, air vechicles! Sky castles! Yes! We want!

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fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted June 30, 2017 01:26 PM

Baronus said:
Yes heroes III of steam and sky! I think about mod rebuild Heroes III to Steamage! Baloons, air vechicles! Sky castles! Yes! We want!


already part of the plan. some of these early ideas are actually in my objects patch. you'll find airships in there, along with the sky islands and some other related objects.

once i start making 3d, and get the lovecraft, forge, and(maybe) fear towns out of the way, i'll be working on the other plan sets i have; including planeswalker(sky, other dimensions, and space) airships for heroes to use in travel(or some kind of magic/sci-fi bubble, i haven't decided yet). i may make different ways for different factions to travel, as well.


btw, telling someone that forge(or anything) doesn't belong in MODDING, is counterproductive to creativity. you should never tell anyone who wants to create something to share with people for free, that their ideas are stupid or wrong. ever. stifle that snow.

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Baronus
Baronus


Supreme Hero
posted June 30, 2017 01:45 PM
Edited by Baronus at 13:50, 30 Jun 2017.

fred79 said:
Baronus said:
btw, telling someone that forge(or anything) doesn't belong in MODDING, is counterproductive to creativity. you should never tell anyone who wants to create something to share with people for free, that their ideas are stupid or wrong. ever. stifle that snow.


I told it all the time to haters but with 0 effect as you see. There is repeat the same.  That is why I think its only hate not a mistake. So I finished "discussion"... Its no sense. Its only for break my work. I dont stop adding new cities!

Yes reworking all HIII to Steam Age! Heroes in baloons! Not horsemans! It will be realative easy...

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