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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Fire Magic in Heroes 3
Thread: Fire Magic in Heroes 3 This thread is 4 pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV
phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted March 05, 2019 12:29 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 12:36, 05 Mar 2019.

Otuken said:
berserk is op but I always ban it my games.
I agree it's OP, but banning it only makes Fire Magic even worse.
I guess you should ban Haste, Slow, Prayer, Clone, Blind, Armageddon, Implosion, Resurrection, Animate Dead, Town Portal and Dimension Door too then.

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Ghost
Ghost


Legendary Hero
Therefore I am
posted March 05, 2019 12:46 PM

A doctor hammer out their head to gets reflexes in a homm3. I guess their head comes deep hole. Wtf conceptions.
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Fight MWMs - stand teach

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Otuken
Otuken


Known Hero
posted March 05, 2019 02:59 PM

RerryR said:
You say its the worst school. What if you could buff Fire Magic by saying one hero is specialized in Fire Magic, what would you improve and how? The spells itself? Cast fire spells more often? Costs less spell points?


Well the main problem is you gain not much by learning fire magic compared to other magic schools. For example you should not be able to blind 5000 Archangel very easily even without learning basit fire magic. It should be depends on the total health of enemy stack like hypnotize and players who didn't specialize fire magic should not be allowed to blind enemy creatures that above level 3.

All fire damage spells need to be buffed.

Curse is somewhat ok but it shouldn't be more expensive than bless.

Slayer need to be mass spell.

And other problem with fire magic is it is the only school that their some spells come with some cons like Armageddon, Frenzy, Sacrifice and thye make them very situational. Sacrifice really doesn't deserve to be 5.th level spell.




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Otuken
Otuken


Known Hero
posted March 05, 2019 03:37 PM

phoenix4ever said:
Otuken said:
berserk is op but I always ban it my games.
I agree it's OP, but banning it only makes Fire Magic even worse.
I guess you should ban Haste, Slow, Prayer, Clone, Blind, Armageddon, Implosion, Resurrection, Animate Dead, Town Portal and Dimension Door too then.


I'd rather debuff other magic schools or buff fire magics. Other schools have also very good spells but really none of them as op as mass berserk because it protect your troops to get damaged by enemy troops plus it also eats enemy rounds at the same time. Maybe the developers made it mass spell as compensate the weakness of fire scholl i don't know.

Slow/Haste= They look very reasonable for me compared to mass berserk the only unacceptalbe thing for me their mass versions are way too cheap. It would be better to make mass versions as separate magic or making too much expensive their mass versions. But still both sides can still obtain these spells very easily and exploit in adventure map equally.

Prayer, Clone are ok because water school really needs some good spells to compete with Air, Earth.

Armageddon is no problem is hit and run is banned.

Implosion is lvl 5 spell I am ok with it.

Resurrection: It is very problematic and unfair combine with blind thus you can resurrect all your dead creatures otherwise it is reasonable.

Animate dead compensates some weaknesses of Necropolis.



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heymlich
heymlich


Known Hero
posted April 28, 2019 02:39 PM
Edited by heymlich at 14:40, 28 Apr 2019.

Air magic is picked mainly for one spell: haste. So what's the problem with picking fire magic to improve only one spell?

It's just that I don't use the berserk spell since I consider it game breaking. So I usually end up ignoring fire magic.

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Otuken
Otuken


Known Hero
posted April 30, 2019 01:21 AM

heymlich said:
Air magic is picked mainly for one spell: haste. So what's the problem with picking fire magic to improve only one spell?

It's just that I don't use the berserk spell since I consider it game breaking. So I usually end up ignoring fire magic.


Learning whole of magic schoold due to Berkers does not make sense for me. Fire magic is just awful but air magic is still good even without mass haste.

It would me much better nerfing mass berserk and buffing other fire magics.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted April 30, 2019 07:57 AM

Berserk might be OP, but what about Armageddon and Implosion, are they not?

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Otuken
Otuken


Known Hero
posted April 30, 2019 05:49 PM

Berserk is more op because implosion is 5.th level spell, can be partially countered by earth protection and doesn't eat your creature's rounds.

Armageddon is also very situational and everyone can cast it without learning any magic school.

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thexenofex
thexenofex

Tavern Dweller
posted May 03, 2019 09:41 AM
Edited by thexenofex at 09:46, 03 May 2019.

Hey everyone!

IMHO fire magic school is more powerful than water magic school. (on average)

Expert curse is very powerful. With this combination you take very important objects -> dragon fly hives (dragonflies do only 28.5% of their original damage) and conservatories (griffins 44.4%) and it can be very helpful in other battles as well. On average it is better spell than bless.


Expert protection from fire can be used in combo with armageddon. (pvp final battles).

Blind is super useful spell. And expert blind can be useful in situation when in final battle enemy has only one super power stack left and you can hit it and blind it again and again and it will not retaliate because of expert fire skill.

Fire wall with Luna makes impossible possible.

Armageddon is one of best 4th level spells in game. It is often key spell where you attack enemy army with suicide mage and you have the first move advantage.

Frenzy is sometimes used when enemy powerstack is under anti magic.

Berserk needs no comments.

Sacrifice can be useful.

Fire elemental is by far better than water elemental. It is faster, it has 5 more hp and it is immune to fire spells(armageddon).

Water have some powerful spells -> dispel, cure, bless, forgetfulness, teleport, prayer, but on average it is not as good as fire.



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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted May 03, 2019 10:00 AM

You make good points, but again I don't see the huge benefit of Blind or Armageddon, they are almost as good without Fire Magic.
I still prefer Water Magic over Fire Magic and also Bless over Curse. But Berserk is extremely strong and probably the best reason to pick Fire Magic.

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heymlich
heymlich


Known Hero
posted May 03, 2019 04:41 PM
Edited by heymlich at 16:42, 03 May 2019.

It is as Phoenix says: There are good fire spells, but they don't profit much from the skill.

Btw the water magic skill is quite important for factions that usually don't have initiative. With tower or fortress I pick water as second magic skill (after earth).

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Zaio-Baio
Zaio-Baio


Promising
Famous Hero
posted May 10, 2019 12:40 AM
Edited by Zaio-Baio at 00:46, 10 May 2019.

thexenofex said:
Hey everyone!

Expert curse is very powerful. With this combination you take very important objects -> dragon fly hives (dragonflies do only 28.5% of their original damage) and conservatories (griffins 44.4%) and it can be very helpful in other battles as well. On average it is better spell than bless.




Dragon flies have 13 ini, so by the time you cast exp curse you will already have taken quite some dmg.

Also, math is off. Dragon flies do 2-5 dmg. That is 3,5 dmg on average. When you exp curse them they do fixed 2 dmg. So 2/3,5 = 57% of their original dmg.

Griffins deal 3-6 dmg, that is 4,5 dmg on average. With exp curse they deal 3/4,5 = 66,67 % of their original dmg.

Actually fire magic does surprisingly well in multiplayer, because no one expects it. Also in hota badge of courage does not provide mind spell immunity.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted May 10, 2019 08:35 AM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 08:37, 10 May 2019.

Actually expert (and advanced) Curse does minimum damage -1, so Dragonflies would only do 1 damage and Griffins 2. So the thexenofex is correct.

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted May 10, 2019 10:01 AM

Curse and Bloodlust are pretty solid, but their problem is that other mass spells are simply more influential. Slow/Haste are game decisive and impact creeping in an incredible way. When it comes to Fire vs. Water it's pretty much the same but:

- Weakness works vs. everything and bloodlust works only for melee so it's a bit better;
- You can't prevent bless but you can prevent curse (with a treasure class artifact).


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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted May 10, 2019 10:59 AM

phoenix4ever said:
Actually expert (and advanced) Curse does minimum damage -1, so Dragonflies would only do 1 damage and Griffins 2. So the thexenofex is correct.


I'm guessing this is with a minumum of 1 damage at least, since many Tier-1 and even some Tier-2 creatures have a damage range that starts at 1 damage.
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The last Reasonable Steward of Good Game Design and a Responsible Hero of HC. - Verriker

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted May 10, 2019 11:12 AM

Yes, always minimum 1 damage.
I'll leave this here: http://heroes.thelazy.net/wiki/Curse

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Zaio-Baio
Zaio-Baio


Promising
Famous Hero
posted May 10, 2019 04:35 PM

Guys, i haven't tested it, but im pretty sure that the description is incorrect and mass curse makes all units deal min dmg.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted May 10, 2019 07:05 PM

No, it is -1, Bless is also +1.
You can check it yourself in the sptraits.txt file.

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phe
phe


Famous Hero
Life and Freedom
posted May 10, 2019 07:36 PM

So...how much of damage does 1 cursed Archangel to 1 Archangel with equal heroes stats in attack and defence at expert Fire Magic? 49 or 39?

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted May 10, 2019 07:44 PM

49 with Curse, 51 with Bless, hardly noticeable on angels, naga and Enchanters, but on units like Storm Elementals or Cerberi it makes a big difference.

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