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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Secondary magic schools
Thread: Secondary magic schools This thread is 4 pages long: 1 2 3 4 · NEXT»
phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted October 16, 2018 10:23 AM

Secondary magic schools

Everyone loves Earth Magic, because of Slow, Town Portal, Resurrection, Shield, Stone Skin and other great spells.
I usually make it a habit to get Earth Magic and then one other magic school, depending on which town I play. (If Dimension Door is 4 times a day, I almost feel forced to pick Air Magic, that's part of the reason why Dimension Door is only once per day in my game)

Usually it goes something like this:
Castle - Water (Cloning of Archangels and Prayer)
Rampart - Water or Air (Haste or Teleport and Prayer, to bad they does'nt work on Gold Dragons)
Tower - Air (Haste, Precision, Fortune etc.)
Inferno - Fire (Curse, Berserk and maybe Frenzy on Arch Devils)
Necropolis - Air (Haste to get those slow undeads, with no morale moving and maybe Counterstrike)
Dungeon - Fire (Curse, Berserk and maybe Armageddon)
Stronghold - Air (Haste, Precision, Fortune, Air Shield)
Fortress - Water (Bless, Teleport and maybe Prayer)
Conflux - Air, Fire or Water (Depends on spells in Mage Guild and main hero)
Cove - Water (Bless, Teleport, Prayer, Clone)

Do you also choose Earth and one other magic school? and which schools would you prefer for each town?

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zmudziak22
zmudziak22


Famous Hero
posted October 16, 2018 10:37 AM

Castle - Earth, Water, sometimes Air/Fire
Rampart - Earth Water
Tower - All Schools
Inferno - Earth, Water(bless, clone prayer works wonderful on Inferno), Fire
Necropolis - Earth, Air
Dungeon - Earth, Fire, Water
Stronghold - Earth, Air, Water
Fortress - Earth, Water
Conflux - All Schools
Cove - Earth, Water, Air

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted October 16, 2018 02:52 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 14:55, 16 Oct 2018.

With all towns, first of all Earth. Then I agree with you, Air is needed for traveling spells but even in maps where Fly and DD were banned I choose it often at least for some secondary hero for a quite underrated spell, View Air. It's amazing how useful it gets when invading enemies territory.
But Water is by far my favorite school, battles with Clone and Prayer are a must and I almost never get Fire, since I don't like to use Berserk and it seams like the only reason to have it.
____________

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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted October 16, 2018 03:10 PM

I never choose Fire Magic no matter which town I'm playing with. Except for Fire, though, all other schools are mandatory for me. Even though I rarely use water spells I always pick water over fire just because I'm too cool

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted October 16, 2018 04:41 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 16:42, 16 Oct 2018.

@monere So you always choose Air, Earth and Water? Well it's not a bad choice, but usually I find Earth and one other magic school enough.
I also pick Fire sometimes, mostly because of Curse, Berserk and my own personal mass Slayer (Blind and Armageddon does'nt really need Fire Magic)
I think it's fair enough to cast Berserk, at least in HotA, since AI can cast it too.

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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted October 16, 2018 04:54 PM

Yeah, I always pick water over fire, but - as everyone probably knows by now - I am newbie (well, at least I play like a newbie, just for the sake of the fun), although.... to be honest fire does seem better than water.

For me, the coolest - and most used, obviously - water spells are bless, cure, forgetfulness, and prayer every now and then (not a big fan of prayer, I don't know why everyone is crazy with this spell). But fire does seem to have more popular spells in the curse, blind, armagheddon, even sacrifice or frenzy occasionally, and the obvious berserk.

So yeah, you are right that fire is better than water, but I still pick water and the reason I do it is mostly to cast forgetfulness on the bloody archers. I hate playing against archers (especially when I play Fortress), so forgetfulness is pretty handy.... WITH advanced water, that is. That's the main reason I pick water, for one spell only

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted October 16, 2018 05:10 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 17:21, 16 Oct 2018.

I never said Fire was better than Water, actually I think the opposite.
But you gotta admit expert Berserk is pretty damn strong and fun to use. But Fire lacks adventure spells. Water is also better on maps that actually contain lots of water, for Summon and Scuttle Boat and Water Walk.
Prayer is a good spell, yet it can seem underwhelming compared to Haste/Slow. (But that is only because they are so damn OP)

Btw picking Water Magic only for Forgetfulness, seems a bit sad, you might be better of with Tactics instead?

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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted October 16, 2018 06:05 PM

First of all, I HATE tactics. It bothers me that I have to arrange my troops every time. So, water is preferred instead of tactics

Secondly, adventure spells??? Does anybody actually uses those? I mean, for the sake of having fun sure, you could use them. But, they're not needed against the dumb AI

Berserk.... strong, yeah. Fun, not so much when you lose because of it. Actually, I don't like overpowered stuff anyway, which berserk clearly is

You might have never said that Fire is better than Water, but considering the multitude of useful fire-based spells compared to water-based ones, fire IS better than Water. Well, it's better in the way that I play this game anyway....

And last but not least, you've nailed it for Prayer. The spell is not really bad, but damn if mass haste and slow are not overpowered indeed! Probably that's why I don't see great value in Prayer as a level 4 spell. I think even clone is more useful than Prayer because at least with clone you can do some good damage (depending on who you're cloning) and resurrect, too (if you're using it on the fagg0t Archangels)

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted October 16, 2018 06:19 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 18:21, 16 Oct 2018.

Yeah arranging troops with Tactics can be a bit annoying, but it is very effective, especially against shooters.

Maybe the way you play with the landlocked AI, you don't really need adventure spells, but in most other cases (and especially in my map) you NEED adventure spells, the sooner you learn Water Walk, Fly, DD and Town Portal and even Visions the better.

Fire Magic does'nt have many great spells, so at least Berserk makes it a bit more desireable.

I'm glad expert Haste/Slow is only +3/-30% in my game and at a higher mana cost, it seems much more fair and Prayer is actually better than both of them.

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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted October 16, 2018 06:42 PM

I know that TP, Fly and DD are adventure spells and I obviously use them... heavily, too, I might add

But I was referring to vision, summon / scuttle boat, view earth / air / whatever types of spells. Such spells I never use because of the landlocked AI indeed, but I can see their worth in competitive games.

We're not agreeing on the Fire / Water debate, and it's OK. Everyone has their style of play and preferred spells, and except for Forgetfulness - which I find an extremely cool and useful spell - all other water spells are worse than Fire spells like blind, sacrifice, curse, even frenzy or fire shield, which I use often. Actually, Waterwalk is also a good Water spell, but since I disable all water on the maps I play.... it still counts as 1 useful Water spell (forgetfulness) against at least 4 good Fire spells (blind, berserk, frenzy, sacrifice).

Regarding the mass slow/haste.... +3 refers to the number of hexes I presume, but what does the 30% refer to??? And yeah, the increased mana cost is a good fix (you should at least double the mana cost for both of them IMO, if not triple it)

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted October 16, 2018 06:45 PM

Okay we don't agree on Fire VS Water then, but I would say Water is best.

Haste adds +3 speed instead of +5 speed.
Slow lowers speed by 30% instead of 50%.

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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted October 16, 2018 06:50 PM

Oh... so why have I thought for 20 years then, that haste and slow deal with the same numbers but in opposite directions?

Don't answer this question because I know the answer, but I honestly thought that haste adds 5 hexes, while slow retracts 5 lol

Oh well... good fixes anyway

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted October 16, 2018 06:52 PM

Well I'm glad I could teach you something new then.

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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted October 16, 2018 07:03 PM

I'm always eager to learn about Heroes, so...

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phe
phe


Famous Hero
Life and Freedom
posted October 16, 2018 07:12 PM

Haste
Slow

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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted October 16, 2018 07:28 PM

Yep! Exactly what OP has said

phe said:
Haste
Slow

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 17, 2018 05:58 AM

Air is probably even better than Earth... if Dimension Door and Fly aren't banned.
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Discover H4 Greatest Mod!
https://www.moddb.com/mods/greatest-mod/downloads
(Also biggest of only two 2 mods for HOMM IV)

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted October 17, 2018 10:20 AM

monere said:
But I was referring to vision, summon / scuttle boat, view earth / air / whatever types of spells.


These are all situational spells. In other words, for them to be useful or valuable, the map needs to accomodate the situation in which they shine. Visions, View Earth and View Air are purely providing information and thereby put power into the hands of the player, because they can more properly determine which course of action to take; information is power, after all.

Besides, those spells are not only pretty common, but also fairly cheap in mana costs, so they're little penalty to use them on the adventure map anyway.
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The last Reasonable Steward of Good Game Design and a Responsible Hero of HC. - Verriker

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted October 17, 2018 10:57 AM

Visions is great, actually, and the spell to use in single player, when you don't want to reload-cheat.

Just for the record - Tactics is a must-have.

And lastly, second (and actually first) skill depends on spells and chances to get a school.

While the late game spells are obviously important, you cannot rely on getting them. On maps with predominantly Strongholds, Fortresses and Castles they cease to be a factor at all, and on smaller maps with not many towns it's like having one or two shots only as well.

All that means, I try to go with what I get in MG 1 and in some cases, when Fire Magic is possible, with MG 2 (and Blind) as well, in accordance with what the hero is probable to get and what is actually offered in the game. For example - and quite obviously - if Haste appears in the guild and I'm offered Air Magic I'll take it, no matter what.


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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted October 17, 2018 11:11 AM

JollyJoker said:
if Haste appears in the guild and I'm offered Air Magic I'll take it, no matter what.

Only because Haste is so incredibly overpowered! (and so is Slow)

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