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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM3: The Succession Wars Mod
Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM3: The Succession Wars Mod This thread is 20 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 · «PREV / NEXT»
Krs
Krs


Famous Hero
posted October 14, 2023 09:07 PM

So you would prefer to separate creature initiative from its speed?

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Macron1
Macron1


Supreme Hero
posted October 14, 2023 09:25 PM

AlexSpl said:
Also you can rewrite spell system as well as secondary skill system, so that they correspond to original spells/skills system.


They cannot as they prefer to hack closed code instead of using open-source VCMI as a base.

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lea
lea


Adventuring Hero
posted October 14, 2023 09:34 PM
Edited by lea at 21:38, 14 Oct 2023.

Macron1 said:
They cannot as they prefer to hack closed code instead of using open-source VCMI as a base.
changing game mechanics by editing source code is still extremely time-consuming.
If VCMI will get lua scripting with flexible enough lua API then it will become default platform for HoMM mods.
BTW it is already default for custom towns since making a town already does not require digging into VCMI's source code - even some of HoMM3SW's towns are already ported to VCMI.

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Warmonger
Warmonger


Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
posted October 14, 2023 09:55 PM

Quote:
changing game mechanics by editing source code is still extremely time-consuming.

Right, I wouldn't recommend far-fetched modifications on VCMI engine at this stage of the project.

...which doesn't mean that some resonable tweaks couldn't alter or extend game mechanics without breaking it all.
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The future of Heroes 3 is here!

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orzie
orzie


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted October 15, 2023 12:16 PM
Edited by orzie at 12:17, 15 Oct 2023.

Krs said:
So you would prefer to separate creature initiative from its speed?

That's how it was in H2. More to that, some of our H2 Gold scenario conversions suffered because of H3 mechanics, for they were built on the ability of Power Liches to act before Black Dragons, for instance. Getting Power Liches from the Dead City had much more sense, too.

This would also bring more diversity to the faction lineups and more freedom in controlling the balance between factions.
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lea
lea


Adventuring Hero
posted October 16, 2023 04:52 PM

orzie said:
Krs said:
So you would prefer to separate creature initiative from its speed?

That's how it was in H2.
not quite,
in HoMM2 faster creatures went before slower ones just like in HoMM3,
the only exception is that for flying creatures there was no limit to how far they could go in one turn so their speed stat defined only their initiative (turn order) but not how far they could go

Although IMO it would be nice to split initiative and movement distance into fully separate stats

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orzie
orzie


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted October 17, 2023 03:29 PM

It's more complex. If you look at shooters, you'll see that they sometimes have rather fast initiative (Power Liches and Greater Druids to name a few), but are not able to move as far as expected, and for a logical reason.

Moreover, fliers under the Slow spell are unable to cross the battlefield completely, yet are still able to fly over objects within their reachable area. Their initiative is also lowered, so it's safe to assume these are different parameters.

Anyway, you gotta keep 'em separated - that will be for the better.
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lea
lea


Adventuring Hero
posted October 17, 2023 08:19 PM
Edited by lea at 20:26, 17 Oct 2023.

orzie said:
It's more complex.
... ... ...
is it?
it may be confusing because creature speed in heroes 2 is expressed with word instead of number but each word corresponded to specific number and I never seen any discrepancies. I remember power liches and druids going as far as their speed suggests and never seen flying creatures being limited in how far they can move.

do you have any concrete evidence to the contrary?
maybe at least specific steps to reproduce behavior you've just described?

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orzie
orzie


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted October 19, 2023 12:31 PM
Edited by orzie at 13:47, 19 Oct 2023.

I don't see a point in this argument. You can launch Heroes 2 and see it for yourself, for all points I mentioned. I am aware that the speeds are, in fact, numbers, but there are nuances, mainly for creature types.

I am currently on Mac, so it's a bit problematic for me.

Here is a quote from MM Wiki regarding Slow.
Quote:
Slowed creatures are reduced to half their normal speeds.


Cast Slow on Rocs or Sprites and see that they don't go full battlefield. While Rocs are Very Fast speed, Sprites are Average. This influences on their Slowed and reverb versions.

Also, compare Power Liches, who are Very Fast, with Wolves, who are Very Fast too. They don't go the same distance, but have the same initiative, because one is a shooter and the other is not.
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lea
lea


Adventuring Hero
posted October 23, 2023 08:59 PM
Edited by lea at 20:59, 23 Oct 2023.

orzie said:
I don't see a point in this argument. You can launch Heroes 2 and see it for yourself, for all points I mentioned.
did it as part of regular game (gog release) and could not observe what you described

orzie said:
Also, compare Power Liches, who are Very Fast, with Wolves, who are Very Fast too. They don't go the same distance, but have the same initiative, because one is a shooter and the other is not.
their movement distance is exactly same except wolf takes up 2 hexes so from the same position (of its rear hex) it can reach 1 hex further than creature that takes up 1 hex (like power liches)
also note that when "Shadow Movement" is enabled in combat options then for 2-hex creatures it shows only where their rear hex can arrive so it looks like 2-hex flyer cannot reach furthest column of hexes (and also hexes located directly in front of other troops and obstacles)

I guess you either remember earlier version of heroes 2 (before some of its bugs were patched) or merely misremember it

If you'll be able to reproduce inconsistencies as you described then please post here what specific version of heroes 2 did you use to reproduce them

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Pollo2002
Pollo2002


Famous Hero
posted November 06, 2023 02:28 AM

I assume because this will never have PVP sim turns right?
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SOSolacex
SOSolacex

Tavern Dweller
posted November 10, 2023 06:13 PM

If it will have sim turns, I'll be incredibly surprised.
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orzie
orzie


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted November 17, 2023 08:55 AM

This is a feature of HD Mod, not any other mod.
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Dydzio
Dydzio


Adventuring Hero
VCMI contributor
posted November 18, 2023 06:32 PM

VCMI will have sim turns in version 1.4 so this statement is not gonna age well xD

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orzie
orzie


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted November 23, 2023 05:32 PM
Edited by orzie at 17:41, 23 Nov 2023.

I am absolutely not against that.

EDIT: it's just the people who keep mentioning sim turns as if we must have it. Yeah, won't hurt, but it's not a HotA feature either.
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orzie
orzie


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted December 11, 2023 06:23 PM



Since the team was satisfied enough with this collage and asked me to make it public, here are some goodies.

This collage is done just to crystallize our design direction for the Witch a little bit more and provide some idea on how the actual H3SW Witch townscreen could possibly look. This version is probably the last before we start sketching the actual design and composition so it could be implemented via 3D, 2D, and neural artwork combined.

What I personally like here is:

- Green sky with magenta and yellow tint
- Approximate coastal line, including the zone near the castle gates (finally a solution allowing the moat to appear natively without breaking the composition)
- Multi-story pagoda style for round buildings and huts
- Wooden bridge at the foreground (Might and Magic 8 Dagger Wound Island vibes here)
- Swamp style brick texture on the pyramid/altar placeholder
- Toltec/mesoamerican style texture on the red mage guild placeholder

What to expect from a "real" version in future:

- More Polynesian/Mesoamerican landscape and architecture
- More Quetzalcoatl and Aztec vibes to accommodate the creatures, heroes and overall Witch vibe so it's not Fortress even further
- Less urbanistic and more cult-ish design (because we have Cult of Tsantsa to feature here)
- Marketplace floating on water
- Improved or even redone Castle shape so that it's more eclectic, fortified and probably less looking like a museum
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted December 11, 2023 08:31 PM

Amazing, let's make H2 great again !

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sirironfist
sirironfist


Known Hero
King of the ogres
posted January 06, 2024 10:36 PM

I adore the design here. Cult of Tsantsa makes me think of that little island in Bootleg Bay with the "don't mind the rats" innkeeper. He probably sits in one of those little huts. The pyramid gives off almost creepy vibes, very cool looking.

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Juas
Juas


Hired Hero
posted January 07, 2024 04:58 AM

I like the design!

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Dave_Jame
Dave_Jame


Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
posted February 19, 2024 08:33 PM

Damned.. I haven't been on this forum for hell of a long time. But lately I've been playing H2 again, remembered this mod, noticed it was actually out and decided to try it out.


First of all take anything I present here only as ramblings of an old madman. Nothing to take too seriously. I only have a few hours anyway.

First of all I love that it is more then a simple pallet swap. The rebalance of economics and creature stats helps tremendously to recreate the original H2 feel.I was originally rather sceptical but once the map loaded up, I was instantly hooked.


One thing that sours my experience is the stability of the mod. I had several crashes and freezes. But Im not going to blame the mode for this. It most likely has more to do with the fact I used an old, CD based, unpached, Czech version of Heroes III complete as the basis.

Changes to he lineups
Warlock+Necromancer+Barbarian: I love that the new units are based on MaM IV creatures. Two of them are even really close  to their design in that game, as well as some of the other new units.


Wizards: I alwayes had a Tolkien-esc feeling from this town. Hobits, big eagels, wizzards just by a different name. So the addition of gremlins feels kind of wrong. Nothig terible, but something in my craves a better fit. To be hones I could see the treants rather here then with the Witches.

Sorceress: Similar to the wizards i just dont feel the Satyr as a natural fit. I would rather like to see something more fairytale-like. Maybe something connected to a red cape....

Knights: This is the only one I kind of dislike. Yea a 2nd archer is a good addition to the line up but rather then a guy with a "different  bow". I would rather appreciate something different. A monk style creature would fit well and there even is a precedence for it, as there are monks in MaM VI.

Now to the new factions:
Derwish: This faction is something I was dreaming up as far as my pre-teens. I was always fascinated by neutral creatures in the game and tried to create maps around them. This faction is a dream come true for me. I love how two of the new units are somewhat inspired by MaM VI creatures. The tier 2 has a strong Follower of Baa feeling and the Defender of VARN inspired tier VI fits great. Generally this faction looks perfect.

Witches: Let me be straight. Fortress my favorite faction in Heroes III. I love its style and gameplay. But here something feels off. One important part of this is the murky and smudged town screen. But if the image posted by orzie is anything to go by, this will be fixed in the future.
When it comes to the units: The first two are a natural fit again inspired by MaA VI. The rest is a hit or miss. Most of them look good, but some of the dont feel right. The frogs animation seamed to fast and jerky. The treant stands out like a soar thumb, and the wyvern could use some more love.
This made me think about what could be used as an inspiration from the other Enroth based games. Browsing my galery two creatures came to my mind.
The first was the bloodsucker. A small unit for tier 1-3, But knowing their design from MaM VI, this could be a nightmare to animate.
The second one was a monster that felt to me as better fit for tier 7 then the wyvern. The Wyrm feels to me like a natural fit for this faction. It has a precedent in MaM VI, it would help to retain the factions original feel from HoMaM III and it looks apart.



I know the devs wont be changing anything. Just wanted to get my thoughts out.
But I do have one question I would love to hear an answer to: Are you planning to add more neutral units to the game? I know you are planning one more faction, but I would love to se more of them.
Especially when half of the original ones are in a town of their own. One creature from MaM I would love to see and could actually be a good fit for some of the current factions are Werewolves.
I know the devs won't be changing anything. Just wanted to get my thoughts out.


I will add some comments about the gameplay when I have at least few hours and games behind me.

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I'm just a Mirror of your self.

We see, we look, we gather, we store, we teach.
We are many, and you can be one of us.

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