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| Thread: USA, EU, UK refuse to share vaccine formulas. |  This thread is pages long: 1 ... 7 8 9 10 11 ... 20 29 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Drakon-Deus
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Qapla'
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posted March 22, 2021 03:08 PM |
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blizzardboy said:
Anyway, while people enjoy their "freedom" to not vaccinate
You can't wait to see it taken away just like other freedoms, right? 
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted March 22, 2021 03:57 PM |
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Are you against rules that require you to wear clothes in public?
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted March 22, 2021 04:00 PM |
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Corribus said:
Are you against rules that require you to wear clothes in public?
I don't even know why I bothered to post here. If you people think traffic lights and clothes are the same as having a substance injected in your body, we really have nothing to discuss.
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted March 22, 2021 04:09 PM |
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Drakon-Deus said:
Corribus said:
Are you against rules that require you to wear clothes in public?
I don't even know why I bothered to post here. If you people think traffic lights and clothes are the same as having a substance injected in your body, we really have nothing to discuss.
Well I was mostly drawing a comparison to mask mandates - sorry I wasn't clearer on that. But beyond the point, in the US in most jurisdictions immunizations are a requirement for children attending public schools. I suppose you are against this?
Just out of curiosity. Can you articulate why a rule requiring a substance be injected into you is different from a rule requiring a substance be placed against your skin?
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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blizzardboy
Honorable
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Nerf Herder
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posted March 22, 2021 04:19 PM |
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Drakon-Deus said:
You can't wait to see it taken away just like other freedoms, right?
To take something away they have to have it to begin with. Various diseases are already mandatorily vaccinated more-or-less.
This does not include people that have a prior history of severe reactions to vaccines, but for a random person without adverse risk, not getting vaccinated is just a blatant lack of responsibility that affects everybody else.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted March 22, 2021 04:26 PM |
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I'm out.
Keep being responsible and saving lives, guys. 
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted March 22, 2021 05:17 PM |
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OhforfSake said:
artu said:
Drakon-Deus said:
On the subject of vaccines, I'm not an "anti-vaxxer", I think people should get vaccinated if they WANT it and they're willing to deal with side-effects.
That’s what being anti-vaccine means. Nobody suggests to ban them completely, they just say they dont have to use them.
I think that is the first time I've ever encountered such a definition.
Around where I live, the people who are against vaccines in general (and to a larger extend in the specific case of the corona vaccine) drops flyers into peoples mail boxes trying to scare them away from getting vaccinated.
Well, that is rather a specific case. The covid pandemic is an extraordinary situation and not quite surprisingly, it resulted in conspiracy theories on so many levels of crazy, like Bill Gates’ plan to insert chips in people and so on.
But normally anti-vaccine people mostly go by “my body/my kid, my choice.” I mean, the whole thing is quite old.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted March 22, 2021 05:56 PM |
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Edited by Corribus at 17:58, 22 Mar 2021.
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This is the first true pandemic in the age of social media, and therefore policy and messaging initiatives have not been prepared to deal with viral disinformation and its effect of public health measures. Obviously, we will need to study causes for the spread of disinformation when the dust settles and make proactive plans for the future. We also deeply need apolitical systems to track and respond to emerging diseases.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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Neraus
Promising
Legendary Hero
Pain relief cream seller
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posted March 23, 2021 09:08 AM |
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I believe that what drives the "anti-vax" narrative in this case isn't necessarily misinformation, but rather a disconnect between the news and perception.
Your common person has probably met much more people who had covid and healed by just isolation than people who died from covid, and if they know someone who died, it's much more probable it was an old person than a young one, and no matter how you put it the shock value of old people dying is always diminished compared to a young person.
And unlike past pandemics, we have the data available, and you only need a stubborn guy to dig enough to get the death rates by age, which usually aren't addressed by public information (to their credit, one of the biggest private networks here actually broke down the lethality rates by age to show the impact of the few vaccines we did here).
Now, for example, my age group has a lethality rate of below 0.1%, so in my case I don't see why I should be vaccinated, especially on an higher priority than my parents, who are in the 60-70 range, who I actually encouraged to get vaccinated, since lethality rises from 0.9% to 5.6%, not an high probability really, but a much more concrete threat to their life than mine.
So, what is the reasoning for mass vaccination? We need herd immunity they say, it's a fair assessment, but in my opinion it's economically wasteful with little gain, I mostly agree with the vaccine plans laid out by most countries, including mine, since I believe they have nailed the first steps.
However, there are flaws in their reasoning that I believe is going to hinder compliance, and that is the fear of not being protected by a "second infection", the possibility of still being able to spread it, and the fear of "variants"; add to these the necessity of still wearing masks after the most vulnerable have been immunized and you see why people would think it's a useless endeavour, and the most conspiracy minded would think it's a plot to control the masses.
Also, add the press coverage on the cases of thrombosis after AstraZeneca vaccinations, which in my opinion were handled horribly by experts and governments accross Europe, the only rebuttal they had was "correlation doesn't imply causation" while governments suspended administering the vaccine without further consultation from their pharmaceutical agencies.
Fun anecdote: my mother was contacted to get the vaccine the day after the news broke about those cases, we were both quite scared, despite y'know, being pharmacists ourselves. Reading into it, I thought it was a faulty batch that wasn't spotted due to the large size, but as it seems, it's either a very rare adverse reaction that couldn't be spotted in phase 3 or the EMA decided to add it as a possible adverse reaction to avoid further problems.
Now, in my slightly educated opinion, I think they're scared of an unlikely worst case scenario, in my opinion they're assuming that people may get infected a second time because they are positive to the PCR test even when vaccinated, which is possible, since the virus can always enter your body even when you're immunized, however, what matters at that point is that your body will react to the pathogen, inactivate it and null its replication, thus even if the virus enters the body again, it won't be able to replicate enough to be able to spread successfully.
Fear of variants and mutations is also in my opinion a worst case scenario, I haven't read well enough into this, so forgive me for speculations, but considering endemic human coronaviri, radical mutations aren't likely in our bodies, the "variants" we have encountered are similar enough that antibodies are capable of fighting them, this has been the evidence until now, at least as it regards the infamous English variant that is sweeping across Europe and a few more that have been studied in regards to interaction with antibodies. The danger may come from another spillover from other coronavirus hosts, but let's be honest, if that happens it won't be SARS-Cov2, it'll be something else and we can't predict what. Considering we experience what the flu virus does every year, mutating in birds and spilling over to pigs and humans, another coronavirus spillover might be a likelier risk than an in-human mutation.
But in that case, no vaccine will be able to fight it anyway.
So yeah, summing up, people under 60 do have an argument for refusing the vaccine, I also think it should be forced on them if they are health workers. Right now I don't think we are in danger if the currently non-threatened population is naturally exposed to the virus.
I'm waiting for the study coming in the next months where we discover a mutation in the human host that makes the virus not respond to vaccines.
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Noli offendere Patriam Agathae quia ultrix iniuriarum est.
ANTUDO
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted March 23, 2021 09:14 AM |
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From what I gather, a lot (if not most) of the people who are afraid to get vaccinated from covid are afraid about this particular vaccine, not about vaccines in general.
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blob2
Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
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posted March 23, 2021 09:20 AM |
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Edited by blob2 at 09:30, 23 Mar 2021.
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artu said:
Well, that is rather a specific case. The covid pandemic is an extraordinary situation and not quite surprisingly, it resulted in conspiracy theories on so many levels of crazy, like Bill Gates’ plan to insert chips in people and so on.
That didn't stop various parties from using the situation for their own gain, and I think this is the main issue people have with the pandemic (plus how unevenly and inconsistently it is handled). In Poland the virus is a godsend for our ruling party cus they write off any civil disobedience like protests as "endangering others". While they themselves are abusing the rules and restrictions. Oh and it also seems they want to nationalize many aspects of economy, like buying off bankrupt hotels or gyms... Not to mention they can always argument taxes and cuts with "bad economical situation".
Nutjobs were ever-present, but the corona situation is affecting even people who normally weren't skeptical.
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artu
Promising
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My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted March 23, 2021 01:10 PM |
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Well, yes, I can very much relate to that since we have the browner version of the same s**t here. For instance, in weekends, grocery stores and malls were open, but they were not permitted to sell alcoholic beverage due to “covid precautions.” I’m not talking about bars and cafes, mind you, malls. Thank you Islam.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Neraus
Promising
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Pain relief cream seller
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posted March 23, 2021 01:54 PM |
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Similar thing here actually, shops weren't permitted to sell alcohol after 18, and where opening restaurants was allowed, they were open only for lunch and not for dinner.
In our case it was a psyop to discourage people from eating out, but it didn't actually work.
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Noli offendere Patriam Agathae quia ultrix iniuriarum est.
ANTUDO
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted March 23, 2021 02:44 PM |
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Not quite the same, since restaurants, cafes, bars etc are already not allowed to serve here anyway, they can only take orders by phone and bring the food to your door. And this is not just after 18. The only place you can drink what you buy, is your home anyway. So how is this related to covid in anyway? It’s just another excuse not to permit selling alcohol.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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blob2
Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
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posted March 23, 2021 03:23 PM |
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Edited by blob2 at 15:27, 23 Mar 2021.
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artu said:
Not quite the same, since restaurants, cafes, bars etc are already not allowed to serve here anyway, they can only take orders by phone and bring the food to your door.
Similar here. And because our government does nothing for these small businesses (one time payment which doesn't do much) those simply go bankrupt. My favorite burgery says they lost around 40% of their income, and it was back in Fall 2020. Recently they posted on fb they can hardly manage (I even gave them some extra money in my last order but that's nothing compared to their expenses like buying quality ingredients etc) so the corona situation is truly rough on their income (it's not as easy living off delivering food as some may think). Take away is ofc an option but for instance this is a family business and they say they rather not do it cus most people taking the orders to be delivered to their doors are on quarantine so the burgery risks closing the whole business due to risk of catching the virus. So now the only option they have is picking up the order on the spot.
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blizzardboy
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posted March 25, 2021 12:06 AM |
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Neraus said:
I'm waiting for the study coming in the next months where we discover a mutation in the human host that makes the virus not respond to vaccines.
I'm not sure about 'not respond' but vaccines partially lose efficacy as the virus mutates. So the virus can still spread around among the population and then as it mutates it can re-infect vaccinated people, albeit the severity of the sickness ought to still be reduced. Supposedly even a tuberculosis vaccine can reduce the severity of the new COVID although it was never designed for that purpose. Some of the theories on why COVID isn't hitting most parts of Africa very hard is because so many of those demographics have already been heavily exposed to all sorts of sicknesses and there is somewhat of a crossover when it comes to having resistance.
It's like if you drink a potion of fire immunity and then the enemy casts meteor shower on you. You're still dealt earth damage but at least you can neutralize the fire damage and then next turn you can cast regeneration.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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blizzardboy
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posted March 25, 2021 12:41 AM |
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NimoStar
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Modding the Unmoddable
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posted May 06, 2021 11:35 PM |
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Edited by NimoStar at 23:38, 06 May 2021.
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These so called vaccines (that are really genetic modification, the China Sinovac vaccine is the only one done in the fully traditional way) are just an essay for transhumanism.
It's not true "this is the first poandemic" or such nonsense. Read the literal definition of "pandemic"; it's just a disease that affects more than one country. There are multiple global diseases at any given time.
Coronaviruses are just the common cold. See official US info:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/general-information.html
Quote:
Common human coronaviruses, including types 229E, NL63, OC43, and HKU1, usually cause mild to moderate upper-respiratory tract illnesses, like the common cold. Most people get infected with one or more of these viruses at some point in their lives
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Never changing = never improving
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted May 07, 2021 12:32 AM |
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Edited by artu at 00:39, 07 May 2021.
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NimoStar said:
These so called vaccines (that are really genetic modification, the China Sinovac vaccine is the only one done in the fully traditional way) are just an essay for transhumanism.
It's not true "this is the first poandemic" or such nonsense. Read the literal definition of "pandemic"; it's just a disease that affects more than one country. There are multiple global diseases at any given time.
Coronaviruses are just the common cold. See official US info:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/general-information.html
Lol, everybody knows coronaviruses are nothing new, it’s the covid-19 mutation that causes the pandemic though. Comparing it to its other relatives would be like saying tigers belong to the family of felidae, just like house cats, so there’s nothing to worry about.
And yes, everybody also knows what the word pandemic stands for, despite all efforts of Illuminati and the five families that run the world, we still have dictionaries! But some pandemics are worse and more dangerous than others. The plauge, the black death was also a pandemic, Spanish Flu was also a pandemic and it killed more than WW1.
So, if you think the disease is overblown, these are not very good reasons to think that. How you link all of this to transhumanism is beyond me and I’m really not that curious about it either.
@forfy
That’s nice news.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted May 07, 2021 12:40 AM |
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Edited by NimoStar at 00:50, 07 May 2021.
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The "deadly virus" has a 0,26% death rate at max (that's the official US estimate BTW, and US is one of the countries with most deaths)
So yes, it's overblown extremely. In fact, WHO estimated that up to 650,000 people die from the common flu every year. So basically four years of common flu is equal to the "covid pandemic". If "some pandemics are more serious", this is definitely not it.
Not even 0,1% of the global population have died. In comparison up to 35% of the whole european population died from the Black Death.
As to how it ties to transhumanism, see the Bill Gates drive for biometric global identification here:
https://revisesociology.com/2021/02/12/criticisms-covid-vaccine/
this thing isn't even a secret, it's on publicly broadcast interviews from the mouth of the man himself.
PS:
There is hard data to back this up
USA retired from WHO with Trump, leading to guess who becoming the number one donor... it's right there in place "formerly two"
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/04/who-funds-world-health-organization-un-coronavirus-pandemic-covid-trump/
Official data from World Economic Forum.
Such a nice chap, eh?
The "specified" means this money can only be spent on what they WANT it to be spent.
Also, look at GAVI alliance, which is basically a Gates front group, up there as well.
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Never changing = never improving
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