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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted March 06, 2022 02:46 PM |
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Edited by Ben80 at 14:52, 06 Mar 2022.
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The fact of the matter is that 90% of people are "biorobots". Hollywood is just for them. During the 8 years of Nazi rule in Ukraine (since 2014), these Russian people were "reprogrammed" as anti-Russian, and now they are hoped to be "reprogrammed" back.
Quote:
choked of the freedom
Not just choked, but went crazy.
In fact, if we separate ourselves from the West with a new iron curtain, I will only be glad. Not the fact that we will recover, but I think this is a chance.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 06, 2022 02:57 PM |
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Edited by AlexSpl at 15:06, 06 Mar 2022.
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War is never an option, it's a last resort. I don't think Russia had not other options. And that decision is a huge step back for people of Russia and for their neighbors. Particularly I feel pity for old people, which commonwealth is under a big question now.
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In fact, if we separate ourselves from the West with a new iron curtain, I will only be glad. Not the fact that we will recover, but I think this is a chance.
Well, but how much time Russia would need to recover? Don't you think that this time would be crossed out for the people who live right now? The way from 1918 to 1960's is plenty of time, and now Russia wants to
walk this path one more time?
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted March 06, 2022 03:22 PM |
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AlexSpl said:
Well, but how much time Russia would need to recover? Don't you think that this time would be crossed out for the people who live right now? The way from 1918 to 1960's is plenty of time, and now Russia wants to
walk this path one more time?
We are far from being a socialist state now. We still have to go and go until 1918. We are now at the end of the 19th century. And this despite the fact that the October Revolution of 1917 was a genuine miracle. But we don't have any other options. In the struggle of the world (Anglo-Saxon) bourgeoisie and our local bourgeoisie, I choose our side.
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RerryR
Promising
Supreme Hero
Researching Magic
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posted March 06, 2022 03:32 PM |
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Ben80 said:
... During the 8 years of Nazi rule in Ukraine (since 2014)...
Didn't the people of Ukraine vote in 2019 with 73% for Selenskyj as a president. Didn't that make Ukraine next to Israel the only state in the world with a Jewish leader?
Ben80 said:
In fact, if we separate ourselves from the West with a new iron curtain, I will only be glad. Not the fact that we will recover, but I think this is a chance.
This is not 1970 anymore, if you think a land can recover in modern times when it is cut off all technology and supply chains, you are wrong. Back in the days, there was no smartphone or internet.
The lack of electronic chips, semiconductors and finance will have a great impact on many sectors.
So it is not something I would be looking forward to :/
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 06, 2022 03:37 PM |
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Edited by AlexSpl at 15:43, 06 Mar 2022.
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Quote:
In the struggle of the world (Anglo-Saxon) bourgeoisie and our local bourgeoisie, I choose our side.
I forgot what "bourgeoisie" even means. The international economics is now intertwined as never before. We should be grateful to the West for their high-end technology, for example. The West should be grateful to Russia for gas and oil. It is a distributed economy, and I don't think the economy of Russia will be effective if it will break all ties with the West. The West, for sure, will also suffer economic losses. And people who do really understand what's happening now are really concerned of the future. Mind, that they are not a man with two children who works for less than $300.
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted March 06, 2022 03:39 PM |
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Edited by Ben80 at 15:42, 06 Mar 2022.
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RerryR said:
Didn't the people of Ukraine vote in 2019 with 73% for Selenskyj as a president. Didn't that make Ukraine next to Israel the only state in the world with a Jewish leader?
Democratic elections are an illusion. If there are democratic elections in the country (without significant falsifications), this means that the country is run by oligarchs.
By the way, do you know that many Russian people in Ukraine voted for him ? He promised that he would stop the war in the Donbass. Voters did not know that Zelensky was just a puppet in the hands of the West.
Democratic elections mean that power belongs to the oligarchs. If we are talking about a strong country, then these are local oligarchs, if we are talking about a weak country, foreign oligarchs (American, British, etc.)
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted March 06, 2022 03:45 PM |
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AlexSpl said:
The international economics is now intertwined as never before. We should be grateful to the West for their high-end technology, for example. The West should be grateful to Russia for gas and oil.
This is called "peripheral" capitalism - when a country trades in raw materials. The developed capitalist countries strive to drive all the others into this state. Therefore, there can be no gratitude here.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted March 06, 2022 04:37 PM |
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Edited by Ghost at 16:46, 06 Mar 2022.
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Ben80 said:
then these are local oligarchs, if we are talking about a weak country, foreign oligarchs (American, British, etc.)
I thought a diagnosis something due to wrong info building, but you said American, etc Then I think a brainwashed.. Quite!
Isn't your people are tired about propaganda? Ukraine showed strong tactics, and we don't think you have a Tzar bomb, because of propaganda where weren't air force.. I think so.. If Ukraine wins, and you think we attack your country.. Paranoid! No, you get the answer is eternal poor as a North Korea and also Cuba..
And a lot of other!
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 06, 2022 09:56 PM |
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So, Russian internet propaganda by "Ben80".
I'be always respected communist USSR. Losing fight against the West, out-produced, but a serious opponent.
It abolished itself - but something went wrong; instead of dividing the means of productions to the people, a couple of ultra-rich people emerged from the ashes of the USSR.
And since zhen the USSR is basically led like a colony by its leaders. Its resources are plundered and only a couple of people profit. Russia is selling out their resources. Their industrial products? None. Oh, wait, wrong. WEAPONS.
Yep, the Kalashnikov. Now the Kalasknikov Concern, part of which is owned by Rostec, a Russian STATE-owned defense conglomerate, controlling 700 enterprises. Putin initiated its foundation. He controls it.
I could also point to UAC - google it. Same story.
Russia is exploized systematically by its owners, and Putin sits like a spider in the midth of the web.
If you compare Russia and China - you couldn't do with China what is happening with Russia now. China imports and exports, you can't cut it out of world economy.
Russia? Forget it. What did the people of Russia get in the last 30 years? How did they profit from the sell-out of their natural resources?
It's time for another revolution in Russia!
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gatecrasher
Famous Hero
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posted March 06, 2022 10:16 PM |
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Baronus
Legendary Hero
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posted March 06, 2022 11:43 PM |
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Yes main Russia people mentality is horrible as you see. Putin is only main country style of thinking. Very primitive and very imperialistic.
Captured young conscripsts. Old contract ,war dogs' sitting very far from front and ,commanding'. Young slaves ,fighting' ,for empire'. A lot of them crying ,momy mommy'... Its real horrible Moscow Empire...
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gatecrasher
Famous Hero
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posted March 07, 2022 12:24 AM |
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They want to knock the "western nonsense" out of their youth's heads.
I don't think this plan is working out. Many of those who will come home will be more critical than before taking their part in this "heroic anti-Nazi war" for the sake "Russian security interests".
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted March 07, 2022 12:26 AM |
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Edited by Galaad at 00:29, 07 Mar 2022.
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@JJ
We do get a lot of our gas from Russia, isn't Germany something close to 40%?
Don't think all this isn't going to affect us too, big inflation coming, and that's one of the best case scenario.
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Kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted March 07, 2022 03:43 AM |
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Lol Ben, I had a lot of fun today defending Russia in some discord servers. But to be honest, if the Ukrainian people are fighting something, it's Soviet incompetence. Some government decisions are so bad it's downright criminal to just live under them.
I've been waiting a lot for these Russian dead soldier numbers to go down. They aren't. We now have Russian soldiers telling us their side and boy are they all demoralized. None of them actually wants this snow, they were told it was just a drill, that Kyiv was waiting for them as liberators... I guess Russia once again lost the social game and in their copying of the United States, they forgot to bomb their own place first for a war justification.
Their military got snow logistics and are basically stalled in mud and blocked by broken old trucks. Their makeshift truck armor made of wood is hilarious. Na I'm sorry but Russia got incompetence written all over it. I thought they were better than this but they aren't.
All they got are scary intercontinental ballistic nuclear missiles that the US will have a better counter for in 1-2 years and Putin's scrambling to make the best out of that short amount of time
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 07, 2022 08:33 AM |
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Galaad said:
@JJ
We do get a lot of our gas from Russia, isn't Germany something close to 40%?
Don't think all this isn't going to affect us too, big inflation coming, and that's one of the best case scenario.
Yup, true.
But you can't make yourself subject to blackmail, obviously.
We'll all pay a price for that, unless Russia will come to reason.
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ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
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posted March 07, 2022 09:18 AM |
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It's interesting to read how some Russian commentators try to teach history lessons. Do you even know what critical judgment is? Have you studied arguments of different sides? Why have you decided that the Russian version of history is the only truth? I'm not going to dive deep into history yet because in the flood of messages we're losing the arguments.
Let's start with something simple. What is the goal of the Russian invasion? Putin says, that the goals are denazification, demilitarization and neutrality of Ukraine, right? So let's talk about denazification first. It's difficult to understand what would that be in Ukraine. There were funny comments about 8 years of Nazi rule in Ukraine and I'm trying to understand where exactly these Nazis are hiding. Ukraine has a president, government and parliament. Is Ukraine president nazi? Are there any Nazi ministers? Are there any Nazi political parties in the Ukrainian parliament? I'd like to understand what is this denazification, any help?
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted March 07, 2022 09:30 AM |
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You have a point about denazification, ok.
Now what about demilitarization and neutrality, are those as easy as denazification to pull away?
JollyJoker said:
unless Russia will come to reason.
No, unless our politicians do what we elected them for, which is preserve their nation interests thus removing self-inflicted sanctions. Ukraine is not in Europe, is not in NATO neither. This is not our war, continue the diplomatic way.
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ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
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posted March 07, 2022 09:51 AM |
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Wait a moment, but what's the problem with militarization and neutrality? Why would Russia have a right to decide that Ukraine should be neutral and with no military? Could Ukraine ask Russia to demilitarize? Do you agree that Ukraine is a sovereign state or no?
Furthermore, demilitarization and neutrality don't work together, would you agree? Would you agree that all neutral countries have strong armies to be able to defend themselves?
Finally, these aren't acceptable options for Ukraine because Ukraine DOES NOT trust Russia. They broke plenty of Ukraine-Russia agreements already and annexed some territories in the past, there's simply NO TRUST. Look back even a month ago. Do you remember what Lavrov and other Russian officials said before the invasion? Right, they said they aren't planning an invasion. Literally nothing changed and without any provocation, they invaded. Great, would you trust those guys after that? In case of demilitarization, they would just attack again in the future, period.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted March 07, 2022 10:01 AM |
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This is not about sovereignty, but about geopolitical realism. A major nuclear power as Russia will never allow a nearby state to arm itself then be part of an openly anti-Russian alliance. So, fine tuned diplomacy is required then compromises on both sides. Naturally, I am all against what Russia did, because now diplomacy is much harder given that trust is gone.
I mean, look at USA reaction in 1962 when Cuba allowed Russian bombs on its territory, Kennedy said you move them away or I start a nuclear war. Then bombed and invaded Cuba. People have short memory.
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Era II mods and utilities
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 07, 2022 10:05 AM |
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That's exactly what brought WW II, that thinking. OF COURSE it's our war! It's right at our doorstep, refugees floodding us yet again - and we are supposed to look the other way?
And then, tomorrow, what? Is every country NOT in NATO fair game for Russia? Are we willing to let us be blackmailed by threats of cutting our gas and oil if we don't obey?
But what is more - why would we want to have anything to do with such a country? We already have problems dealing with China and their way, many things we don't like, but we do it because we can't afford not to. The West is too tied-up economically with China and vice versa.
And we are not involved in a warring way. We are just cutting our ties with Russia, which is absolutely sensible. NATO won't directly take part in that war. Sadly, but also sensibly.
And to answer your question - demilitarization and neutrality. Why would the Ukraine have to bow to RUSSIA's wishes? After all, Russia attacked the Ukraine 8 years ago, and technically that hasn't been resolved. Ukraine can do what it wants. Russia could (have) handle(d) things differently and brought their complaints to the UN: oppression of Russian minorities in the Donbas region. They could have requested neutral UN forces to stabilize the region; they could have tried to deal with Ukraine and THEIR wishes.
Same thing with Finland and Sweden, mind you. If they would want to join NATO because they didn't trust Russia, would there be more threats by Russia to avoid that?
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