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Heroes Community > MapHaven Guild > Thread: Best H3 XL maps
Thread: Best H3 XL maps This thread is 11 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 · «PREV / NEXT»
zambarici
zambarici

Tavern Dweller
posted March 14, 2003 06:56 PM

i don't play the maps but on inmposible. but i've played outpost of progress, a little. if you want a really hard map play vengeance is mine, the lone knight or eternal love, the campaign. those are really hard. the other maps that you've mentioned  i haven't played, but i'll try them

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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted March 14, 2003 09:35 PM

Quote:
if you want a really hard map play vengeance is mine, the lone knight or eternal love, the campaign. those are really hard.


I agree with you about "eternal love". the best campaign i ever played on homm3.
BTW, is there a ranking where i can look with how many points the best players here finished this campaign (or others) so that a noob like me could see how far hes away from the top players
In eternal love i got 1830 points and was ranked as a green dragon ??????
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Ironfist
Ironfist


Hired Hero
posted March 15, 2003 10:01 AM

Quote:
i don't play the maps but on inmposible. but i've played outpost of progress, a little. if you want a really hard map play vengeance is mine, the lone knight or eternal love, the campaign. those are really hard. the other maps that you've mentioned  i haven't played, but i'll try them



I also play the maps on impossible only. For Dark Age, the author assumed the player is using expert or easier level, so the monsters are set for that. And the key to victory is to get cavalier on week 1, otherwise the battle in week 2 is extremely hard to win, if not impossible.  

I have played all the maps/compaign you methioned. I like them all. Any other ones? Here are some recommendation for you:

1. Uprising by Hans. C (same author for Lone Knight and EL)
  If you like the Lone Knight you got to try this one.

2. Unleashing the bloodthirsty by A. tanzi (same author for Vegeance is Mine)
  I think it is better than VisMine.  In VisMine even my main hero needs to do the troop transfering job because of the very late access of Town Portal.

3. Pride series (Titanic, Angelic, Devilish). The order is also in my preference.

4. Ring of Victory.
  This is my favorite type of SP map. That is, you starts with two main heroes at different locations and each has his/her own storyline and tactics. This makes you feel like you are playing two games at the same time.

5. To kill for Power.
  The earlier game is excellent but the later part is too easy. Overall it is still very good.

6. Running with the devil.
  Very interesting story.

7. Empire of the world I & II.
  The battles are huge but too easy, especially in late game. Actually I checked the map with map editor after my first try because I want to know why the AI acts so poorly. I found out that the AI heroes are of bad speciallity (e.g, dwarf) and filled with useless secondary skills (e.g, learning, scooting, estates).

8. Fall and Rise, the lord of war.
  Huge battle, excellent story. They are not that hard compared to UBT or VisMine.

9. 221 B. Baker St.
  You play the famous detective. That's the #1 reason I like it.

10. Sander's folly, The gold heart. If you like story-based maps, try these two first.

BTW, do you know that in campaign Eternal Love, you can rescue both the prince and the first love? I can't remember my score but the ranking is AA.


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Commando
Commando


Known Hero
Unleasher of the Bloodthirsty
posted March 15, 2003 01:25 PM
Edited By: Commando on 19 Mar 2003

Sorry for my late reply - too much work

In answer to your questions/comments:


Quote:
I will say it's much better than my own way. My own way is to bring Titans, Archdevils, one gold dragon, one Silver Pegasi, archmages and two master genies (they may cast prayer on the archs, any way, spells like bless will also be very helpful).


I don't think it's inferior to the trick I used (suggested by Zhuge). I'd wager, however, that resurrecting all of the Titans can be a bit of the pain in the backside Bringing along the Master Genies is an excellent idea.

Quote:
I got it from maphevan. Is it the hard version or the easy  one? Can you tell me the main difference between the two?


MapHaven has the easy version. The main differences are tougher battles against the Wizards, the Rangers and the final enemy hero Andhera. Not a lot tougher, just a bit.

Quote:
BTW, for UBT SOD version, I found that you can use Hit & Run against dragon master (provided that you can visit the tavern), which makes it quite easy. Is it the planned way? Without H&R, the only way to avoid any loss seems to be waiting for the archangels. Though the final battle should be quite easy. My way is to assemble Power of dragon father and send heroes with only one azure dragon. Just cast Force field and Berserk repeatedly. I finished UBT on day 183. Is it a good one?


I think you can use hit and run in the old AB version as well. As for the final battle, once you have the Orb of Vulnerability all you need is a few thousand Familiars, Hobgoblins and so on (for the sacrifice spell) and a few thousand Ancients. Blind each stack of dragons (if you have at least 4000 Ancients you can survive until each stack is blinded), summon an elemental stack (immune to fear), resurrect Ancients and hack away until you win 183 days is an excellent score - from what I've been told, many players failed to finish before the 15-month limit (18 months in the SoD version); a fair player should finish by month 11 or 12.
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Commando
Commando


Known Hero
Unleasher of the Bloodthirsty
posted March 15, 2003 01:45 PM

I'm fonder of Vengeance is Mine, actually. Unleashing the Bloodthirsty was quite humourous, in its own way - ViM is far more personal and believe me, many tears were shed in its making. I also think that ViM presents more of a tactical challenge compared to UtB. Late access to town portal is imperative and in keeping with the storyline; rapid troop shuttling is just a question of skilfully chaining the three squires.

Quote:

3. Pride series (Titanic, Angelic, Devilish). The order is also in my preference.


I agree, these three maps by Jason Russell were the first to display the actual power of the H3 editor.

Quote:
5. To kill for Power.
  The earlier game is excellent but the later part is too easy. Overall it is still very good.


This map by Fiery Phoenix (Tang Wen En) is by far my favourite. True, the second half is quite easy battle-wise but the storyline (especially the ending!), the secret paths, the trimmings and the humour are absolutely outstanding.

Quote:

7. Empire of the world I & II.
  The battles are huge but too easy, especially in late game. Actually I checked the map with map editor after my first try because I want to know why the AI acts so poorly. I found out that the AI heroes are of bad speciallity (e.g, dwarf) and filled with useless secondary skills (e.g, learning, scooting, estates).


I edited this map for my own entertainment - can't remember what I did exactly but the final hero had the Recanter's Cloak, mixed troops (castle+level 8-10 dragons), the Badge of Courage, the Bow of the Sharpshooter and several other extra tidbits. With these little add-ons and a no-bombing policy, the final battle is quite a challenge.

Quote:

8. Fall and Rise, the lord of war.
  Huge battle, excellent story.


Probably the two most influential maps ever created, along with To Kill for Power.

By the way, where can I find the map called "Dark Age" you mentioned?

Cheers
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Ironfist
Ironfist


Hired Hero
posted March 17, 2003 09:47 AM

Quote:

By the way, where can I find the map called "Dark Age" you mentioned?



You can find it everywhere: maphevan, h3trio, AW. The size of "dark age" is LARGE not XL.

Quote:

ViM presents more of a tactical challenge compared to UtB



May I ask some more tactics in ViM?

1. Stronghold. Mine is: forgetfulness 1st round, dragonfly block gate. Then try to blind bahemoth & orge magi and kill the weak ones.

2. Final battle. Mine is: bring a bilasta for the cloned creatures and about 2500 mighty gorgons (kill all azure in two rounds). Cast blind to faerie dragon, AA, enchanter, rust dragon. You may need to move the titans in front of the bilasta in round 3 or 4 to get it destroyed by the AI.

As to "to kill for power", I had a very painful first try. After rescuing the hero Xarfax(fireball special), I found that he has good skills. So I decided to bring him back, i.e., attack & surrender. When I found out what I should do later...

Another painful experience. The first time I played your UBT/AB, the boss in the only castle (forget his name, beat him to get summon boat) got badge of courage as starting bonus (I choose random for all AI). I played it again several days later with badge of courage disabled in the map.

Quote:

Probably the two most influential maps ever created, along with To Kill for Power.



The lord of war is the most influetional to me. Actually it is the very FIRST custom map I played.

BTW, do your mapmakers like late comments? I mean comments & feedbacks to maps you made years ago?

Here are some for UBT:
1. No need to equip shackle of war. The AI will not retreat because there is no tavern.

2. Abandon starting town after you get the 10(15?) extra cyclopes. I also tried to get the gold mine in week 1 (use the hobgoblin to lure dwarfs away).

3. In SoD version, add another skill: pathfinding. So the players have some choices. I like pathfinding because my hero can run like a rabbit for all kinds of terrain.




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Commando
Commando


Known Hero
Unleasher of the Bloodthirsty
posted March 19, 2003 12:48 PM

Hello again,

  Thanks for all the feedback - yes, I definitely appreciate it and if it becomes consistent I may even consider getting to work with the editor again. The WoG editor, obviously

Quote:

1. Stronghold. Mine is: forgetfulness 1st round, dragonfly block gate. Then try to blind bahemoth & orge magi and kill the weak ones.



I think this works only if you build a 3rd-level mage guild in Nitamb. Many players will be too short of resources to do this Anyway, yes, this is the best tactic. By the way, Sharpshooters and Enchanters can be saved for later battles - no need to waste them here.

Quote:

2. Final battle. Mine is: bring a bilasta for the cloned creatures and about 2500 mighty gorgons (kill all azure in two rounds). Cast blind to faerie dragon, AA, enchanter, rust dragon. You may need to move the titans in front of the bilasta in round 3 or 4 to get it destroyed by the AI.



There are a few possible tactics here. The important thing is to bring Azures in order to get first go, otherwise the Faerie Dragons will cast one of their spells and that just about spells curtains I prefer to blind the Rust Dragons before the Enchanters. This battle is in fact quite easy - it just *looks* impossible. It is also important to equip the Hourglass of the Evil Hour and the Spirit of Oppression - a lucky or double strike wouldn't benefit the player very much, whereas for the AI it could mean almost instant victory.

Quote:

As to "to kill for power", I had a very painful first try. After rescuing the hero Xarfax(fireball special), I found that he has good skills. So I decided to bring him back, i.e., attack & surrender. When I found out what I should do later...



That's because of Fiery's tricky wording

Quote:

Another painful experience. The first time I played your UBT/AB, the boss in the only castle (forget his name, beat him to get summon boat) got badge of courage as starting bonus (I choose random for all AI). I played it again several days later with badge of courage disabled in the map.



True, when I finished the AB version I wasn't yet aware of the Badge of Courage bug. Sorry about that...

Thanks again for the feedback.

Cheers!
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zambarici
zambarici

Tavern Dweller
posted March 19, 2003 01:23 PM

hy all, sory for my late reply, but i have a problem with my monitor.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5. To kill for Power.
The earlier game is excellent but the later part is too easy. Overall it is still very good.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



This map by Fiery Phoenix (Tang Wen En) is by far my favourite. True, the second half is quite easy battle-wise but the storyline (especially the ending!), the secret paths, the trimmings and the humour are absolutely outstanding.
-----------------------------------------------------
true, very true, my favorite as well for the reasons above
BTW Commaando, in ViM the game crashes. i still heven't got time to play it but some of my friends have played, and when they ended the turn the game crashed at an AI. i don't know at wich one, i'll tell you later.

Ironfist: yes i have played almost all those maps, except one or two.


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Ironfist
Ironfist


Hired Hero
posted March 19, 2003 01:48 PM
Edited By: Ironfist on 19 Mar 2003

Quote:

That's because of Fiery's tricky wording



Maybe I should check with editer. I just couldn't remember any hint.

Quote:


True, when I finished the AB version I wasn't yet aware of the Badge of Courage bug. Sorry about that...



That's how I got 183 days to finish it. Very familiar with the first 2/3.

BTW, zambarici, here is something helpful (at least I think so) if you are to play ViM.
They are not spoilers!

I think for a map like ViM, month of ... is quite annoying, especially month of plague. And sometimes it is fixed, that is, a reload will not help. Here is a way that will change it:
  If you capture an enemy's town at the end of a month, it may change the "month of ...".
So when I played this kind of map, I tried my best to be ready to take an enemy's town at the end of each month. Then I would save the game, do nothing and check whether it is a month of plague. If it is not, I would take the town on day 1. Otherwise I will load the saved game and take it on day 7.

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zambarici
zambarici

Tavern Dweller
posted March 20, 2003 02:16 PM

thx for the tip Ironfist.
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Commando
Commando


Known Hero
Unleasher of the Bloodthirsty
posted March 20, 2003 02:36 PM bonus applied.
Edited By: Kuma on 24 Mar 2003

@Ironfist: thanks again for the feedback. Have you ever played Monster Island Ultra? A Chinese player edited the original version and made it much more challenging, although it has a frightful tendency to crash, even in the early game. A no-blind policy against AI heroes makes it seemingly impossible...

@Zambarici: thanks to you as well As for the game freezing, it usually happens either because you've reached month 18-20 or something like that, or the necromancers have managed to merge their armies (there's a warning about this right after Lord Draxinusom).

By the way, Zhuge of the Inner Pentacle finished the map in 233 days and with only 1 reload (final battle - Faerie Dragons magic-mirrored Blind).


QP for starting this Topic. Good Post mate, keep it up.

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ironfist
ironfist


Hired Hero
posted March 22, 2003 03:31 PM bonus applied.
Edited By: Kuma on 24 Mar 2003

Quote:
@Ironfist: thanks again for the feedback. Have you ever played Monster Island Ultra? A Chinese player edited the original version and made it much more challenging, although it has a frightful tendency to crash, even in the early game. A no-blind policy against AI heroes makes it seemingly impossible...



No, I haven't. All I can find is Monster Island 1.01? Guess it is the original version. Where to find to super-version?

Quote:

By the way, Zhuge of the Inner Pentacle finished the map in 233 days and with only 1 reload (final battle - Faerie Dragons magic-mirrored Blind).


My score: 247 days. # of reload: countless. I will say 233 days is imagineable but only 1 reload is REALLY impressive.
You do have his tactics, don't you?

Here are some feedbacks for ViM.
@Zambarici, or anyone who wants to play ViM but no yet: don't read the following part till u finish ViM.

This is how I beat the all the AIs.
1. Dungeon.
  I agree that the method in the readme is the best. I tried other ways because I wanted to keep all Archdevils(AD) and elfreet sultans (all other units are useless after defeating the overloads). I will say 4+ ES wont pay for the extra effort.

2. Fortress.
  I didn't go for the abandoned mines after handing over the dragons. Instead, I went for the enemy town (Borgot?).
You should be able to defeat the alchemist & visit the tent by day 7, week 2(or one day earlier). Stay right in front of the border guard with sharpshooters only. Sneak in enemy town next day. Thus you will have 5-6 chaos hydra plus others & sharpshooters, enough to kill the weakest AI hero. Then try to lure another one to attack you in siege battle. You can finish him with minor losses. BTW, if you take mines first and come back with a large army, you may suffer a bigger loss cause the siege battle will be the other way around.
Take one more fortress town leaving only the swamp boss. Go back for mines.
  I feel this way is better cause: one town = two gold mines (for money purpose only), the loss is smaller and you still have enough resoures to build up Nitbom(?) (Sorry I am not sure about the spelling. Are they all Italian? Any special meaning for those names?)

3. Stronghold.
  My opinion: NEVER go into field-battle with their strong hero. The ABs will kill you. Siege battle, even if you are the attacking side, is much better. The best way is (at least I think): attack earlier, probably rigtht after you defeat swamp, but be sure you've already learned teleport and forgetfulness. Oh, I think there might be a hint(timed event) telling you about forgetfulness. Try to sneak in enemy town and wait for a siege battle.

  Battle against Hack the boss: take about 10-20 dragon flies to block the gate/bridge. Place one lizard warrior right opposite the T-birds (so the T-birds can get it). It's quite funny that the T-birds will go for the lizards instead of dragonfly. Cast forgetfulness round #1. It's very hard to kill off all the T-birds in two rounds cause they have a speed of 6 (same as MG) when slowed, so better leave them there (oh, the hydras should go for them for sure) and blind them #2. Then try your best to kill all goblins, wolves and blind all others.
  BTW, what's Zhuge's tactics? Mine requires some luck. Most important: no high morale for AI when they are stopped by the trench.

4. Liar.
  One of the easiest if you are lucky at the utopia. The only difficult thing lies in choosing what type of creatures to bring with. My choices: some dragonflies (exp weakness first round), wyverns, lizards, balisks(?) (I bought them for the earlier battle), sharpshooters, ABs (yeah, CD won't need them till the final battle), T-birds.

  I think there should be a hint in front of the one-way portal telling the player that resurrection is available. It will change the choices greatly.

I feel CT's part is quite hard for the first try cause you don't know whether the result is satisfactory (no resurrection). I wasted quite some time in my first try, what I saved? Nothing. Oh, some extra money. All the creatures I saved were sent to the freelancer's guild.

5. Tower
  The ADs trick won't work for Titans. Use the MG trick instead. The battle depends on those MGs and watch out for sacrifice by the AI. And, here you have a good chance for sneak attack. Here it goes (assuming you didn't pick pathfinding, otherwise it is much easier):

Head for Tower territory on day 1 from the stable near Hy***(an Inferno town) with one squire. Wait right in front of the quest guard asking for speed artifacts, carrying only dragon flies. Next turn: pass the guard and get the bonus. The squire (right behind you with ADs, chaos hydras, MGs, some dragonflies) runs for the town (AI hero should be at the waterwheel). Buy ALL titans and archmages you can afford (You may need to send another hero to use the freelancer's guild to get enough gems). Hand creatures back to CD, kill the first hero and take the second town. Yeah, you can do that. You may need to move with only your titans for a short distance and get back other creatures from your squire (assuming you have no PF skill). You need LOTS OF gems. Finish the second hero next day (he is not able to reach you in one day).

  Use similiar tricks for the underground parts (but very hard to sneak into all two towns). Anyway, you can get 200-300 titans if there is no month of... and you have enough money and gems.

   Btw, my choices for secondary skills are offense, tactics, archery (not armor) and air. Reason for archery: ADs, titans, mages and enchanters are parts of the main forces throughout CD's battles; archery bonus artifacts (the few unbanned useful staffs, oh, don't call me cheater. I think you agree that using the editor is okay after finishing it) will not work without archery skill; archery skill bonus (50%) is much greater than that of armor.

6. Rampart.
Now you can use the AD trick. But I suggest bringing chaos hydras & MG for the first battle (you have double mana, enough to resurrect everything) cause you don't know CLONE yet.

AD's trick: use Force field to protect you ADs and Titans (an armo cart is also very helpful in protecting you Titans)
Kill all dragons and blind all remaining ones. Troops to bring with: Titans, ADs, mages, enchanters, several rust dragons.

7. Lord Drax*****
  Tricky one. I suggest there should be a hint telling the player that he knows no "dispell" spell. I made the assumption for my first try cause I thought otherwise there would be no hope to win.
  Here is one way I used to win the battle without - double mana (I was forced into this battle to avoid month of plague and I had no time for double-mana). Troops: Titans, ADs, silver Pegasi, master genies, archmages, rust dragons, folder to be sacrificed (best: gremlins) and armo cart.

Round #1: RD blocks gate, cast force field to protect titans and ADs, ADs wait. Archmages are placed right in front of the catapult so it will be destroyed. Master genies cast spell on AD. Most likely AI will cast Shield and finish your mages and fodders. Attack sharpshooters. If you can't finish then clone ADs next round. AI usually won't blind AD in round #2 cause your AD jump right behind the force field (already moved), instead, he may cast air shield. From then on, watch for the speed difference for your Titans (ADs will be blinded quite soon) and AI's dragons. Try to cast haste and bless to your ADs before casting anti-magic. After that, abandon Titans(you can bring them back by sacrificing the fodders, no need for fodders if you visited the magic-spring) and cast Force field to COMPLETELY protect ADs. Hold on till AI runs out of mana. Kill all goldies and rusties. Bring back titans and archmages. Since the gate is blocked, feel free to walk up and shoot!

Ammo cart is important because for several rounds your titans are surrounded by the blinded ADs and the cart, so the AI will not teleport creatures to attack you (AI won't attack a blinded stack if there is another choice: ammo cart) and it is unlikely to cast slow since your titans can't move (at least I think this is the reason). So with haste you may have time to cast bless on your ADs.

8. Undead.
  My way is similair to the one against lord resistance. Namely: force filed, hold on till AI runs out of mana. Kill all liches, vampires and ghostes. AI will blind ADs and then the liches will wake them up. Then, try to move titans and ADs to the enemy's side with your ADs standing on the bodies of the liches (no more animate liches). Use force field to protect you. AI will animate vampires to attack you. Your titan can finish them easily. when AI is out of mana, finish ghost dragons, slow the dread knight and start playing them.

  I am very interested in other ways.

9. Castle

  The easiest battle. I think it is even easier than the one against overlords. Again you can sneak into the castle to get archangels. My records: 250+ AAs.

10. final battle.
 
   Time to summon the powerful ABs and the resting MGs for the Azure dragons. Troops: Azure dragons, AA, AD, AB, MG,
enchanters, titans, blastia. It is pretty easy if you have enough MGs and ABs to kill 600 Azure dragons in two rounds.
Otherwise you need some extra care. Anyway, it is pretty easy (at least I think it is much easier than the ones against swamp boss and hack, oh, what's your way to deal with swamp boss and the casualties? how to deal with stronghold without forgetfulness?)

I hope it's helpful to you. BTW, I don't have WOG. are u going to have new H3 maps?




Edit: QP for good, constructive posts in this topic


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Odvin
Odvin


Promising
Famous Hero
posted March 24, 2003 06:49 PM
Edited By: Odvin on 24 Mar 2003

Sorry for offtopic... hope Kuma won't punish me... But I can see a red star next to the thread's name in the Library contents. I don't recall anything like that in past. What does this mean? Is this because two bonuses were given to the posts in this thread?

Edit: Now after I've posted the red star has gone... I suppose it indicated that the last post in the thread was QPied, right?
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Commando
Commando


Known Hero
Unleasher of the Bloodthirsty
posted March 24, 2003 08:11 PM
Edited By: Commando on 24 Mar 2003

Wow! Thank you for the QP, Kuma - that did come as a pleasant surprise

@Ironfist: I can't thank you enough for all the feedback you've given me. Only Zhuge provided me with a similar amount of opinions - I really appreciate it. Thank you, from the heart

You can find Monster Island Ultra here:

http://heroes.cgol.net/Maps/Maps-4.htm

It should be the last-but-fourth map from the bottom of the list.

In answer to your questions:

Quote:
My score: 247 days. # of reload: countless. I will say 233 days is imagineable but only 1 reload is REALLY impressive. You do have his tactics, don't you?

Unfortunately the only tactics of his I can find are the ones for defeating Lord Draxinusom and Andhera - the former having already been illustrated, the latter being virtually the same as yours, only that I believe he brought along a stack of Chaos Hydrae instead of Enchanters.

Quote:
This is how I beat the all the AIs.
1. Dungeon.
  I agree that the method in the readme is the best. I tried other ways because I wanted to keep all Archdevils(AD) and elfreet sultans (all other units are useless after defeating the overloads). I will say 4+ ES wont pay for the extra effort.

You'd be surprised at how difficult many players find this part to be The updated version has an empty garrison just before the first Overlord, to make it a little more obvious that maybe not every stack should be led into battle

Quote:
2. Fortress.
  I didn't go for the abandoned mines after handing over the dragons. Instead, I went for the enemy town (Borgot?).
You should be able to defeat the alchemist & visit the tent by day 7, week 2(or one day earlier). Stay right in front of the border guard with sharpshooters only. Sneak in enemy town next day. Thus you will have 5-6 chaos hydra plus others & sharpshooters, enough to kill the weakest AI hero. Then try to lure another one to attack you in siege battle. You can finish him with minor losses. BTW, if you take mines first and come back with a large army, you may suffer a bigger loss cause the siege battle will be the other way around.
Take one more fortress town leaving only the swamp boss. Go back for mines.
  I feel this way is better cause: one town = two gold mines (for money purpose only), the loss is smaller and you still have enough resoures to build up Nitbom(?) (Sorry I am not sure about the spelling. Are they all Italian? Any special meaning for those names?)


Quite the same tactic I use. As often stressed in the early game, going after riches isn't, quite literally, the way to go. I'm not quite sure how I used to defeat the Swamp King but granted, I was left with very few troops standing...

The town's name, "Nitamb", is the transliteration of the Hindi word for "Home". Other town/hero names not in English are either in Spanish (Stronghold), Romanian (Tower), Latin (Necropolis), transliterated Hindi again (Conflux, Castle, Dungeon) or are taken from the Ultima series or from the Necronomicon (Inferno, Rampart). I decided not to use any Italian in ViM - the language's mood didn't quite fit into any parts of the map. The name of the final enemy hero, Andhera, is also transliterated Hindi: it means "Darkness" and sounds quite like "endearer"...


Quote:
3. Stronghold.
  My opinion: NEVER go into field-battle with their strong hero. The ABs will kill you. Siege battle, even if you are the attacking side, is much better. The best way is (at least I think): attack earlier, probably rigtht after you defeat swamp, but be sure you've already learned teleport and forgetfulness. Oh, I think there might be a hint(timed event) telling you about forgetfulness. Try to sneak in enemy town and wait for a siege battle.

Agreed. One interesting thing is that if you choose gold or resources as the AI starting bonus (i.e. no artifacts) the AI heroes are very unlikely to merge forces.

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Battle against Hack the boss: take about 10-20 dragon flies to block the gate/bridge. Place one lizard warrior right opposite the T-birds (so the T-birds can get it). It's quite funny that the T-birds will go for the lizards instead of dragonfly. Cast forgetfulness round #1. It's very hard to kill off all the T-birds in two rounds cause they have a speed of 6 (same as MG) when slowed, so better leave them there (oh, the hydras should go for them for sure) and blind them #2. Then try your best to kill all goblins, wolves and blind all others.

Even without forgetfulness, Sharpshooters nor Enchanters, this battle is fairly simple. Once you've blocked the gate, blind Thunderbirds, Cyclops Kings and Orc Chieftains, then all remaining troops. Haste, Bless, Teleport, Mass Slow, Chaos Hydrae and repeated Blinds will give you a smooth win Double mana is crucial.

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4. Liar.
  One of the easiest if you are lucky at the utopia. The only difficult thing lies in choosing what type of creatures to bring with. My choices: some dragonflies (exp weakness first round), wyverns, lizards, balisks(?) (I bought them for the earlier battle), sharpshooters, ABs (yeah, CD won't need them till the final battle), T-birds. I think there should be a hint in front of the one-way portal telling the player that resurrection is available. It will change the choices greatly. I feel CT's part is quite hard for the first try cause you don't know whether the result is satisfactory (no resurrection). I wasted quite some time in my first try, what I saved? Nothing. Oh, some extra money. All the creatures I saved were sent to the freelancer's guild.

This is a battle of potentially painful choices - quite like in real life - hence the lack of clues. I like to send CD around with plenty of Ancients, so I usually only send about 40 or so with CT.

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5. Tower
  The ADs trick won't work for Titans. Use the MG trick instead. The battle depends on those MGs and watch out for sacrifice by the AI. And, here you have a good chance for sneak attack. Here it goes (assuming you didn't pick pathfinding, otherwise it is much easier):

Head for Tower territory on day 1 from the stable near Hy***(an Inferno town) with one squire. Wait right in front of the quest guard asking for speed artifacts, carrying only dragon flies. Next turn: pass the guard and get the bonus. The squire (right behind you with ADs, chaos hydras, MGs, some dragonflies) runs for the town (AI hero should be at the waterwheel). Buy ALL titans and archmages you can afford (You may need to send another hero to use the freelancer's guild to get enough gems). Hand creatures back to CD, kill the first hero and take the second town. Yeah, you can do that. You may need to move with only your titans for a short distance and get back other creatures from your squire (assuming you have no PF skill). You need LOTS OF gems. Finish the second hero next day (he is not able to reach you in one day).


Hehe, I never thought of doing this Quite crafty.

Quote:
Use similiar tricks for the underground parts (but very hard to sneak into all two towns). Anyway, you can get 200-300 titans if there is no month of... and you have enough money and gems.


Unfortunately the AI is often stupid enough not to buy out all of its troops, even though it has LOADS of gold and resources.

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Btw, my choices for secondary skills are offense, tactics, archery (not armor) and air. Reason for archery: ADs, titans, mages and enchanters are parts of the main forces throughout CD's battles; archery bonus artifacts (the few unbanned useful staffs, oh, don't call me cheater. I think you agree that using the editor is okay after finishing it) will not work without archery skill; archery skill bonus (50%) is much greater than that of armor.

It's fun to try different combinations - taking fire instead of air makes for quite a different game Although the best combination is the one you mentioned, with the choice between Archery and Armour depending on the player's style (I prefer Armour). Checking the editor after winning is perfectly fair

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6. Rampart.
Now you can use the AD trick. But I suggest bringing chaos hydras & MG for the first battle (you have double mana, enough to resurrect everything) cause you don't know CLONE yet.

AD's trick: use Force field to protect you ADs and Titans (an armo cart is also very helpful in protecting you Titans)
Kill all dragons and blind all remaining ones. Troops to bring with: Titans, ADs, mages, enchanters, several rust dragons.

Archdevils are among the most underrated troops. Your tactic proves how deadly they can actually be.

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7. Lord Drax*****
  Tricky one. I suggest there should be a hint telling the player that he knows no "dispell" spell. I made the assumption for my first try cause I thought otherwise there would be no hope to win.
  Here is one way I used to win the battle without - double mana (I was forced into this battle to avoid month of plague and I had no time for double-mana). Troops: Titans, ADs, silver Pegasi, master genies, archmages, rust dragons, folder to be sacrificed (best: gremlins) and armo cart.
Round #1: RD blocks gate, cast force field to protect titans and ADs, ADs wait. Archmages are placed right in front of the catapult so it will be destroyed. Master genies cast spell on AD. Most likely AI will cast Shield and finish your mages and fodders. Attack sharpshooters. If you can't finish then clone ADs next round. AI usually won't blind AD in round #2 cause your AD jump right behind the force field (already moved), instead, he may cast air shield. From then on, watch for the speed difference for your Titans (ADs will be blinded quite soon) and AI's dragons. Try to cast haste and bless to your ADs before casting anti-magic. After that, abandon Titans(you can bring them back by sacrificing the fodders, no need for fodders if you visited the magic-spring) and cast Force field to COMPLETELY protect ADs. Hold on till AI runs out of mana. Kill all goldies and rusties. Bring back titans and archmages. Since the gate is blocked, feel free to walk up and shoot!

Ammo cart is important because for several rounds your titans are surrounded by the blinded ADs and the cart, so the AI will not teleport creatures to attack you (AI won't attack a blinded stack if there is another choice: ammo cart) and it is unlikely to cast slow since your titans can't move (at least I think this is the reason). So with haste you may have time to cast bless on your ADs.

See above. By the way, I must admit it was only by chance that I came up with a 100% magic-resistant hero - I was dissatisfied with Clancy so I tried Thorgrim and was quite surprised when I couldn't even cast Disrupting Ray on his troops Slower players with a larger army may also adopt a head-on slaughter using Ancients, Mighties and Chaos Hydrae as well (plus plenty of fodder, obviously) - after all, there is *one* spell that works against Lord Draxinusom's troops

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8. Undead.
  My way is similair to the one against lord resistance. Namely: force filed, hold on till AI runs out of mana. Kill all liches, vampires and ghostes. AI will blind ADs and then the liches will wake them up. Then, try to move titans and ADs to the enemy's side with your ADs standing on the bodies of the liches (no more animate liches). Use force field to protect you. AI will animate vampires to attack you. Your titan can finish them easily. when AI is out of mana, finish ghost dragons, slow the dread knight and start playing them.


Another way to deal with them without major losses is to take advantage of the Vampire Lords' no-retaliation special (if you choose to attack with more major stacks). Since blind is not an option (unless the AI buys Enchanters or Trolls from the dwellings near Minoc...), simply diminish the AI stacks and leave just a few VLs standing. Resurrect as required and give the VLs a final parting blow.

Quote:
9. Castle

  The easiest battle. I think it is even easier than the one against overlords. Again you can sneak into the castle to get archangels. My records: 250+ AAs.

Yes - just a few buffs before the final battle. Introducing the Recanter's Cloak would have made the battles much more interesting but would also have entailed annoying major losses, I think.

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10. final battle.
 
   Time to summon the powerful ABs and the resting MGs for the Azure dragons. Troops: Azure dragons, AA, AD, AB, MG,
enchanters, titans, blastia. It is pretty easy if you have enough MGs and ABs to kill 600 Azure dragons in two rounds.
Otherwise you need some extra care. Anyway, it is pretty easy.

This battle is based on illusion. I'm not sure how many players would manage to win on their first try

Quote:
I hope it's helpful to you. BTW, I don't have WOG. are u going to have new H3 maps?


Your feedback is very, very helpful. Thank you again. With all the elements you've provided me with, I may release a third, even harder version of ViM. As for other maps, your feedback has rekindled the desire to get back to work with the editor. Zhuge passed on some pretty nifty ideas for a tactically demanding map - its accomplishment depends on how much time I manage to fit in over the coming months. As of now, I have a very basic SoD layout but I may decide to add WoG elements further on. Time will tell...

Thank you once again, and very best wishes
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Nebuka
Nebuka


Promising
Supreme Hero
Save me Jebus!
posted March 25, 2003 01:58 AM

Ironfist wrote:

My score: 247 days. # of reload: countless. I will say 233 days is imagineable but only 1 reload is REALLY impressive.
You do have his tactics, don't you?


Ugh!! Commando, don't embarrass me telling them how long took me to finish! ;p


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Kuma
Kuma


Promising
Supreme Hero
u can type so much text in her
posted March 25, 2003 09:29 AM

Quote:
Sorry for offtopic... hope Kuma won't punish me... But I can see a red star next to the thread's name in the Library contents. I don't recall anything like that in past. What does this mean? Is this because two bonuses were given to the posts in this thread?

Edit: Now after I've posted the red star has gone... I suppose it indicated that the last post in the thread was QPied, right?




Ur making it easy for me Odvin, answering ur own Q.


And dun worry for the punishment hehehe, ur a mod's dream.
Ur concidered a great member of this Library, wif good constructive posts

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Odvin
Odvin


Promising
Famous Hero
posted March 25, 2003 01:17 PM

Quote:
And dun worry for the punishment hehehe, ur a mod's dream.
Ur concidered a great member of this Library, wif good constructive posts

Thanks Kuma, nice to hear that from a mod...
Ok no offtopic here anymore, sorry
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ironfist
ironfist


Hired Hero
posted March 25, 2003 01:20 PM

Thanks for the QP, Kuma.

I got Monster Island Ultra, ready to play.
I will recommend a tatics-solving map to you: Armageddon by Maarten Wubben, available at AW.

Quote:

Unfortunately the only tactics of his I can find are the ones for defeating Lord Draxinusom and Andhera - the former having already been illustrated, the latter being virtually the same as yours, only that I believe he brought along a stack of Chaos Hydrae instead of Enchanters.



That's pretty enough.
Actually I mean it. Bringing Titans against Lord Draxinusom will make it easier if u r lucky and can save you time when you get the upper hand. ADs only leaves AI no chance. (I just wonder how many ADs you need to kill most sharpshooters in one round). For final battle, enchanters are better if they cast bless, haste, cure, etc. But if they cast SLOW (yeah, slow, the spell you dreamed of for most battles), weakness, etc, AI may cast cure and game over. So my tatics is one ready for reload (one includes luck in it) while his is the other way around.

Quote:
You'd be surprised at how difficult many players find this part to be The updated version has an empty garrison just before the first Overlord, to make it a little more obvious that maybe not every stack should be led into battle


I brought everything with me for the first try. But there will be an empty slot after the first battle (Imps die before you notice that and you sure will use Pit lords' ability on another stack to get more demons)

One trick I liked here: suppose you put a stack of demon in the front line in round one (to attract the dargons), you can cast haste and let them attack medusas. See what will happen if they are stoned. AI will not attack a stoned stack and evileyes and medusas are blocked, so they will walk/fly forword. You may wish all your troops are madgogs now.

Quote:

Quite the same tactic I use. As often stressed in the early game, going after riches isn't, quite literally, the way to go. I'm not quite sure how I used to defeat the Swamp King but granted, I was left with very few troops standing...



Once I tried to make CT's part harder by adding grail structure in swamp & stronghold's bosses' twon (yeah, 10k gold per day for CD). But CT's battle is almost impossible. I only remember that ALL of my chaos hydra can kill only about 5 MGs and you don't know blind. And for stronghold, easy battle turns into a nightmare. Since AI has 20+ attack and more troops (especially goblins and wolf raiders casue now you can't kill them off easily), it keeps casting mass haste and try to come out whenever it's possible.

Quote:

Even without forgetfulness, Sharpshooters nor Enchanters, this battle is fairly simple. Once you've blocked the gate, blind Thunderbirds, Cyclops Kings and Orc Chieftains, then all remaining troops. Haste, Bless, Teleport, Mass Slow, Chaos Hydrae and repeated Blinds will give you a smooth win Double mana is crucial.



You still needs a little bit of luck. How about high morale when orge magi come out?

Quote:
so I usually only send about 40 or so with CT.


Me too. Reason: no money.

Quote:

Hehe, I never thought of doing this Quite crafty.



I thought it is planned cause my CD ends in the second town
with 0 movement (with the help of a squire and no PF), AI's second hero ends up one tile away from the twon.

Quote:

Unfortunately the AI is often stupid enough not to buy out all of its troops, even though it has LOADS of gold and resources.



That's because they don't return to town and aren't under danger. If there is month of creature, they will go back to town for a rest (you know they may cast Summon elementals when fighting a bunch of imps) and buy all troops available.

If you want AI to buy all troops, try these way(not sure about it, I am not a mapmaker)

Assume that the AI is isolated:
1) no waterwheel, windmill, magic garden, external dwelling, etc.
THen AI will stay in town and buy all troops.

2) It may be boring without structures montioned above. So add a squire for AI. AI will join force and the squire will get troops for the boss. Already 8 heroes for AI? put the squire in a prison.

Quote:

It's fun to try different combinations - taking fire instead of air makes for quite a different game



My opinion:
air: a must
sorcery: must not.
tatics: extremely helpful.
offense, armour, archery: good choice.

fire: not so good. sacrifice doesn't depends on fire much. The only thing you can get is no retailation(but what AD for) from blind and some spell points saving.
Let me know if there are other usage for fire. (Is there a hidden BERSERK spell somewhere?) That will put fire #1.

I took fire for my 1st try. (made a mistake. I thought berserk is restricted)

pathfinding: a must if you want a record.

Oh, I think I forgot to write MGs trick in the previous one.
Here it goes:
Troops: Titans, Archdevils(AD), Mighty Gorgons(MG), Chaos Hydras(CH), archmages and two groups of single dragonfly(df).

Round #1: ADs wait, df1 attacks titans, df2 block titans.
archmages shoot armo cart so you can have two groups attacking titans. Cast mass haste after AI casts spells.
MG, CH go for titans. ADs go after archmagi/ master genies

Round #2: Blind Naga queens. MG stick to titans. Watch out
for sacrifice. That is, try to elimate archmagi, master genies, etc. completely.

Quote:

See above. By the way, I must admit it was only by chance that I came up with a 100% magic-resistant hero


Actually it is quite easy. High level Thorgrim with the three artifacts and only battle dwarfs. BTW, you will find it in Armageddon. (ha, it's not spoiler. there's a hint telling you this before the battle)

Quote:

Slower players with a larger army may also adopt a head-on slaughter using Ancients, Mighties and Chaos Hydrae as well (plus plenty of fodder, obviously) - after all, there is *one* spell that works against Lord Draxinusom's troops



Dispell. It is very usefull if you go for a head-on slaughter.

Actually I tried the hard way in my first try.
I thought AI knowns no teleport. So All I need to do is to kill all the goldies and rusties. I was quite enjoying myself when crystal dragons came out. Then after reloading I gathered all I could afford and found out I was way no match for his army. Finally, I said to myself, "he knows no dispell". It took me several tries to get the basic tactics.

Funny things: I was wondering what AI would do if my ADs had anti-magic and AI had casted all benifical spells on its own troops. The answer: Frenzy. Yeah, AI would cast frenzy BEFORE he has cast all benifical spells. And then, he will cast resurrection for quite a while.

Quote:

Another way to deal with them without major losses is to take advantage of the Vampire Lords' no-retaliation special (if you choose to attack with more major stacks). Since blind is not an option (unless the AI buys Enchanters or Trolls from the dwellings near Minoc...), simply diminish the AI stacks and leave just a few VLs standing. Resurrect as required and give the VLs a final parting blow.



This is the way I used before. I prefer the other way because: 1) it's cheaper. No need for additional troops.
2) For most of the time, you are attacking and AI does nothing while it is the other way around as for the VL's trick.

Quote:
This battle is based on illusion. I'm not sure how many players would manage to win on their first try



You mean the first fight with the boss right? I thought it is impossible to beat him. I succeeded in the 4th try two weeks later to get more MGs.

Btw, the chain of war is way too ANNOYING when you failed to blind Fd or you are still trying to find the tatics. Anyway, only one hero can fight him and there is no tavern so there is absolutely no need for it.

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zambarici
zambarici

Tavern Dweller
posted March 25, 2003 03:21 PM

hey, guys, on what map are you talking about? is it ViM?
@Commando: the game crashes at the orange player, before the rangers land. any clue why?
anyway, soon i will begin all the maps you have suggested me. btw thx for the suggestions.
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Ironfist
Ironfist


Hired Hero
posted March 26, 2003 08:20 AM

Quote:

You can find Monster Island Ultra here:
http://heroes.cgol.net/Maps/Maps-4.htm

Hi commando, I played MIU for a while and I couldn't believe what I saw. By month 2, week 3 I had 21 AA and 5-6 Azure dragons. I had 10+ unrecruited AAs. But an AI hero(namely, Tazar the terrible) rushes into my territory. I had 68 Azure dragons there but Tazar had 5000+ (yeah, 5k+) MGs and 700+ chaos hydras. What can I do? I think the ONLY thing I can depend on is berserk. Maybe I should restart? I can still survive casue I already captured two twons on other islands and I had 5 heroes. If only I can get berserk in time. Maybe I should use Save/Load method to find the twon where I can get berserk.

BTW, I am thinking writing some feedbacks for UtB too. I assume you prefer SoD one. It's much harder to write.


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