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dArGOn
Famous Hero
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posted April 10, 2003 08:28 AM |
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What a great day…a day captured for generations to come…pulling down Saddam’s central statue as the Iraqi people rejoice, welcome their liberators, and slap Saddam’s likeness silly.
What an amazing and brilliant Commander in Chief and military we have.
Afghanistan fell in about 2 weeks and we have reached Baghdad in about 2 weeks. Saddam and his regime leaders are in the wind on week 3. All the skeptics were claiming that these would both be a new Vietnam taking years with astounding casualties for the coalition. Cheney said it would take weeks not months and he appears to be right on the money. Iraq had an army of over 300,000….which seemed to dissipate quickly.
Bush and Blair are remarkable and demand so much credit. At this time there are extremely low casualties for coalition forces (at this point the Great White band’s pyrotechnics guy killed about as many Americans as all of Saddam’s forces), they saved many oil fields, the Turks didn’t fight with the Kurds, the Israelis aren't being hit by missiles, humanitarian aid entered Iraq within a week of entering Iraq. Truly heroic and historic.
The Iraq war of course is not over at this point….but to have reached Baghdad in this amount of time defies all expectations. Astounding. There will be difficulties ahead (more fighting, humanitarian aid, law and order, and establishing a functional government ) but the progress thus far is unprecedented.
Congratulations to the USA and UK for amazing work in making the world a safer place in both Afghanistan and Iraq. Reports flood in about how much Iraqi people are so happy that we have liberated them while at the same time the regime change makes it a safer place for all of civilized nations. Truly incredible. God bless the coalition and the Iraqi people.
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csarmi
Supreme Hero
gets back
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posted April 10, 2003 10:03 AM |
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Let us hope it is over. However, I am far from being sure of it.
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peacemaker
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
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posted April 10, 2003 10:30 AM |
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Well I must say dArGOn, it's about time you got out here and gloated! What took you so long?
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I have menopause and a handgun. Any questions?
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted April 10, 2003 01:38 PM |
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Quote:
What a great day…
Agreed, nice to see it coming to a close 
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What an amazing and brilliant Commander in Chief and military we have.
I don't agree frankly. It hardly takes the genius of say Lee or Napoleon to thrash silly an army with equipment almost twice as old as their users........ Brave troops? Yup, brilliant commanders? Nope.
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Iraq had an army of over 300,000….which seemed to dissipate quickly.
Hardly suprising. No-one seriously rated any of the troops in Iraq outside the Republican Gaurd though.
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(at this point the Great White band’s pyrotechnics guy killed about as many Americans as all of Saddam’s forces)
Not a suprise, in week one, the total brits killed in friendly fire was the same as those killed by the Iraquis.
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The Iraq war of course is not over at this point….but to have reached Baghdad in this amount of time defies all expectations.
Eh? Only an idiot would have claimed they could stop american forces outside or before bagdhad....
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Congratulations to the USA and UK for amazing work in making the world a safer place in both Afghanistan and Iraq
Ah. Quite how we count placing the terrorist based northern alliance backed government of Afghanistan into power as a safer place for afghanistan though is another matter entirely. Let us hope a better job is done in Iraq than Kossovo or Afghanistan post war.
BTW given that the government of Iraq is all but dead, bagdhad is all but in allied hands etc etc, can someone explain to me why Iraq was such a world danger? They've been battered into submission for minor casualties, shown no intention (thus far) of using chemical weapons, no intention of hitting foreign nations around them etc etc....... Makes you wonder, if the regime wouldn't (so far) use WMD's in the face of it's collapse, where's the justification for the claim they'd use them at all?
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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Wub
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted April 10, 2003 07:58 PM |
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Hey dArGOn, thanks for sharing your views on the subject with me . I see that we still haven’t reached agreement. What I call false evidence because it has been edited at will and is outdated, is according to you only plagiarized. That’s no problem for me though; my goal wasn’t to convince you anyway. I was more interested in learning how people with opposite views on this justified their point of view. After all, with so many advocates for this war among which are obviously intelligent and resonable people, it is valuable to know how they can differ from you so radically. This has also been the most important reason for me to follow the thread from the moment it was started. So if you think your posts here are worthless because you can’t convince the other(s) anyway, remember that there are also people such as me who may not post much but like to see both points of view defended.
I’m from the Netherlands and although our government generally supports the US, the media and most people I know here are very sceptical of the war. During the attack on Iraq, many mistakes of the US were shown by the media and images of awfully wounded civilians were not withheld from us. The motives for the war were questioned as well. This refers directly to what bort mentioned: all of us are being brainwashed by the media, no matter in which land you live. I realise that very well, but due to the very effect of this brainwashing, that doesn’t make the media less convincing. When I try to take an objective stance, I think it is good to be sceptical of what you read and see, so I try to verify the news with other sources of information. Therefore I think that I am less biased than persons that, for example, only watch CNN. Also it makes sense to me that there is a big chance that the countries that are directly involved in this war, use the most propaganda. For that reason, the European media may be more objective than the American. But, I admit, you don’t actually know that. However, the fact that you know that some media may offer information that is hardly biased, makes you more vulnerable for propaganda. And all this refers back to what I wrote before, because this place here is very well suited to compare people’s opinions, which are also partly achieved by the media.
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peacemaker
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
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posted April 10, 2003 09:00 PM |
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Excellent post Wub, if you don't mind my saying so.
Also PH, I was thinking some of the same things about comments of how "brilliant" our military strategists are...I concur that this bug-squashing did not take a great deal of genius, particularly where we pulverized our every end point with air power and cleared the path from the relatively safe distance above before going in againt a military with no air force....
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I have menopause and a handgun. Any questions?
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mklthrkngl
Known Hero
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posted April 11, 2003 08:16 AM |
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Good or Bad war?
Some very interesting opinions in this thread. It seems it all comes down to wether you beleive this is a good or bad conflict. Was America and her allies doing the right thing when they attacked Iraq.
I'm from Canada and I've had the wonderfull oportunity to see the war thru the full force of American news media and also our own not so forcefull canadian media  It disappoints me to see how political all these free presses are, no matter what country they are from. In they end they all seem to tow there countries party line. I guess if you really want to know if this is a good military action, yes, I know it sounds like a contradiction using good in the same sentence as military action, you have to look at the facts as we know them. I'll tell you what, do I care if America is lying about there reasons for this war? NOPE. If they want to fight this war for Oil and then say it's for some vague threat of weapons of mass destruction, go right ahead!! Do I find myself anymore believing of the cry's for peace from such nations as France/Germany/Russia and the like who have major economic concerns, i.e. Oil in Iraq? Nope!! Am I worried about about the infringement of another sovereign nations rights by the Coalition of good nations?hahahahaha!!! NOPE!! When the war is over will I mourne for those who died innocently? YES!! Set aside all the crap being spewed out by these countries pro and con and you come to one unassailable fact. Saddam and hid cronies are some of the sickest, cruelist SOB's ever to run a country. Did the Americans help make him and his buds what they were, WHO CARES!!! Count the lives that were lost just because he was in power, how many could you lay at his feet? How many more would have to lay there before something was done about it? I say Thank got there's oil in Iraq to fight for!! I grieve for those who had to die to bring Sadam down but if anybody thinks for a moment the number of dead and tortured would have been less without this war they are saddly mistaken. Now I just wish that North Korea had a crap load of OIL or Uranium or anything at all worth fighting for because the b@stard runnin that country makes Sadam look like a choir boy and we know for a fact he's got all the WMD's you could ever hope for. Unfortunately they don't and there's no overwhelming reason to go in there squash them the way they deserve! Rhawanda had nothin worth fighting for and look what happenned there. I just wish we'd stop trying to negotiate with criminals who just happen to be world leaders. Why does the world even try? What agreement could you ever make with such as Sadam or Kim il jockstrap or whateve his name is that would be binding? So why try? Why is it that just because some dictator wins the lottery and gains control of his countries national government we turn our backs on the innocents who have to live, suffer and die under them? I feel nothing but joy for the people of Iraq who were lucky enough to have something worth fighting for, they will at least have the chance at a life without repression. I could only wish that some of the other suffering nations had as much to offer the rest of us that we'd actually fight for them as well!! 
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OK!! So i cann't spell well! So shoot me!!
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Gothmog
Adventuring Hero
Honorable
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posted April 11, 2003 05:24 PM |
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Gee, private, you stole the words out of my mouth!
Bush said Sadam had been set to his rightful place in the history, that is, standing right next to Hitler, Stalin and Lenin.
Well, one day, Bush should be set to his rightful place in the history. That is, standing right next to Sadam.
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He who attacks seldom defends.
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Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
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posted April 12, 2003 05:21 AM |
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What are you talking about? Saddam and Bush go together like garlic and peanut butter. They are not even remotely the same...
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Gothmog
Adventuring Hero
Honorable
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posted April 12, 2003 05:57 AM |
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When Hitler invaded the European countries
He did it for "world peace" as well.
So I see some similarities between Hitler and Bush. Now that Sadam is at the same league as Hitler, I assume they all belong to one big happy family.
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He who attacks seldom defends.
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SirDunco
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted April 12, 2003 08:26 AM |
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so what ?! so what?! so what so ******* what?!
So the so called allies have overthrown the iraqi regime?! So what that Baghdad fell quickly the point is that the US has sent out a clear message to the world...
The US administration thinks that this action will raise the rating of the US in arabian countries and in the rest of the world...the oposite is the truth...so far this conflict has been an unjustified war adn that doesn't help either.
Also having Wolfowitz accuse France of selling weapons to Iraq doesn't give them plus points and neither that fining movie directors $100 000 for "contact with the enemy"...
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Khayman
Promising
Famous Hero
Underachiever
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posted April 12, 2003 12:59 PM |
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Great Thread!
Wish I had the time to read all these posts; unfortunately, my internet access is limited at the moment. It is wonderful to hear the wide varieties of opinions and points-of-view on this topic. I hope this thread stays open for a while.
By the way, if I happen to run into the Iraqi Information Minister over here, I am going to ask him for an autographed photo. That guy is a legend! Let me know if anyone else would like me to try to get them one. 
Bless you all! Stay safe! Peace out!
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"You must gather your party before venturing forth."
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Nidhgrin
Honorable
Famous Hero
baking cookies from stardust
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posted April 12, 2003 01:26 PM |
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Hello Khayman,
As long as I am moderator in this forum, the thread will definitely stay open. I agree it is wonderful to see and share all these different opinions, and that in a peaceful manner. Even if those opinions contradict each other...
Ask that Iraqi information minister to make me an autograph as well hehe Stay out of trouble over there and we all hope you will be able to return home soon unhurt. You have some heroes catching up to do
Greetings,
~Nidhgrin~
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peacemaker
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
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posted April 12, 2003 05:09 PM |
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Khayman! Hail!!! welcome!!! we are humbled!!!
*thnks frantically about everything she's said about the war, hoping none of would wou be found inappropriate to the troops...*
THRILLED to hear from you over there -- are things looking up?
Do you get to go home soon???
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I have menopause and a handgun. Any questions?
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Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
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posted April 12, 2003 07:35 PM |
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I'd like a signed picture of the Info Minister too! That guy is a comedy legend!
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DoddTheSlayer
Promising
Famous Hero
Banned from opening threads
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posted April 12, 2003 07:37 PM |
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Quote:
Csarmi, my dear southern friend, there also is another option that the US brings in biological weapons(if none are found) and then claims to find them in order to justify this war...
agreed. US cannot afford to not find those weapons. They will be found or we will be told that the evidence is not available for security reasons and made to forget about it by media focus. That is the way it has always worked.
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Retaliation is for the foolish. Silence is wisdom
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Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
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posted April 12, 2003 08:52 PM |
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It seems they have found a chemical weapon!
"• Coalition weapons experts are called in after preliminary tests indicate traces of nerve agent on warhead found at air base near Kirkuk
Ex-Iraqi colonel says he has chemical weapons information
Weapons experts were called Saturday to an occupied northern Iraqi air base in Kirkuk to determine if a warhead discovered there is laden with a chemical agent.
Separately, a man who said he is the base's former commander stepped forward saying he has additional information on possible chemical weaponry.
Two separate "improved chemical agent monitor" (ICAM) tests showed trace amounts of a nerve agent in two spots on the baseball bat-length warhead -- at the rear and in the middle where there is a screwed-down circular area about the size of a quarter.
The warhead is about the width of a coffee can and is marked with a green band which, military sources told CNN, is the universal symbol for chemical weaponry.
The warhead tested at 1 bar on a 6-bar scale, which would be consistent with leakage from a chemically armed weapon, military sources said."
This is a very important find.
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Gothmog
Adventuring Hero
Honorable
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posted April 13, 2003 12:02 AM |
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It's about time that US found the weapons of mass-destruction.
After all, they had plenty time to prepare for the war, not to mention manufacturing a few war heads, adding the Iraqi labels.
Now that the war is pretty much over, it's safe for those warheads to be shipped to Iraq and discovered at the right time. After all, it's much easier to dig out stuff that you buried yourself, even more so when you can surround the site with your own tanks, and your own journalists (palestine hotel, anyone?)
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Ok, I admit this is pure fiction. The truth, could be far more ugly.
Anyway, weapons of mass-destruction have to be found, and will be found. Bush promised the world that.
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He who attacks seldom defends.
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted April 13, 2003 01:15 AM |
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Quote:
It seems they have found a chemical weapon!
OMG! PANIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They've got the infamous red cross in a box!!!!!!!!! THE WORLD's COMING TO IT'S END!!!!
Seriously though, I'd be interested to see the possible range of such a warhead..... maybe it will be more than that plane they found that had a shorter range than a model airplane huh?
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It's about time that US found the weapons of mass-destruction.
After all, they had plenty time to prepare for the war, not to mention manufacturing a few war heads, adding the Iraqi labels.
Now that the war is pretty much over, it's safe for those warheads to be shipped to Iraq and discovered at the right time. After all, it's much easier to dig out stuff that you buried yourself, even more so when you can surround the site with your own tanks, and your own journalists (palestine hotel, anyone?)
Oh please, the very nature of the modern world means that this and other stories are likely to be studied heavily by the news and international community. I would think a good move by the US and UK to counter claims such as the above one would be to allow a international body on such matters to study the warhead and it's potential properties. That would confirm or deny the information beyond doubt for the world.
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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Gothmog
Adventuring Hero
Honorable
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posted April 13, 2003 01:43 AM |
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You might want to take a look at this.
Some modern world.
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He who attacks seldom defends.
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