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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted December 16, 2003 08:40 PM |
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Quote:
The main criticism of this is that there are no experts in the Iraqui arena to approach some of the more complex aspects of preparing such a trial and that those experts can be found in the international arena.
Also the chances of him receiving a fair trial in the middle of Bagdhad with tensions as they are at this time is unlikely. Imagine trying Hitler in the middle of Moscow under only Russian judges... Now I personally don't care that he dies or is sentenced, and I certainly do not think of him as innocent in any way shape or form, but I do care that we come all this way to hand him over to someone, that whilst they may have every right to Justice against him, will bring forth accusations of bias. To me it marrs his capture because we failed to recognise he has a right to a fair trial.
After all, there is little point or reason to setting up an international war crimes/humanity crimes courts if we simply accept that we just hand the culprits over to those involved. It was not what we did in the main with Milosevic and others, it was not exactly what we did with Germany and Japan. Also I would say the people of Kuwait and Iran have a case for themselves to be involved in the trial. There is also the issue of which law to use in such a trial, be it international, religious or national.
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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hamsi128
Promising
Supreme Hero
tosser tavern owner
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posted December 16, 2003 10:07 PM |
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fair word is camouflage to barricade death punishment in modern( modern means nothing on that situation regarding the death of innocents during bombardement on bagdat) countries... death penalty is certain in some situations.. if they judge saddam on lahey, lets play democrat game judges will give saddam prison punishment.. if these vaultcity dudes wants to feed something, i offer them to feed cats not dictators.
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Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
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posted December 16, 2003 11:23 PM |
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From Aljazeera.net:
Quote:
Saddam's cousin blasts 'illegal' trial
Tuesday 16 December 2003, 23:47 Makka Time, 20:47 GMT
Saddam Hussein's cousin has said the former Iraqi president should not stand trial for crimes committed during his time in power.
Izz al-Din al-Majid, who was once Saddam's bodyguard, told Aljazeera.net on Tuesday that he would not get a fair trial in Iraq.
"I totally refuse the idea of trying President Saddam Hussein - this is illegal. He is still the legal president of the Republic of Iraq. But if there is no escape from holding a trial, then it should be in The Hague," he said.
Al-Majid defected with Saddam's sons-in-law Hussein and Saddam Kamil in 1995, but refused to return to Iraq in spite of a presidential pardon.
And even though he opposed Saddam's regime, al-Majid objected to America's treatment of him.
He said: "Though my differences with the president are known to everybody, I am terribly sad... If I had an army, I would immediately move to Baghdad to drive the occupiers and their supporters out of Iraq.
Iraq occupation
"What is happening now is illegal. How can some Iraqis feel happy to see the US army arresting an Iraqi figure? Don't they realise that these occupation forces came to our land to humiliate us?"
Al-Majid's comments came after Saddam's three daughters called for him to be tried in an international court.
Speaking to a Dubai-based news network on Tuesday, the daughters - Raghad, Rana and Hala - said they would hire a lawyer to defend their father.
And eldest daughter Raghad was adamant Saddam "should not be tried by the Iraqi Governing Council".
"How can we not hire a lawyer? This is the minimum right we owe him as his daughters," she told al-Arabiya television.
Saddam's sister has also demanded that Saddam be tried before a world court.
Fair hearing
"We do not want a trial in Iraq. We demand a fair trial at the International Court of Justice (in The Hague) in the presence of Arab and foreign lawyers," Nawal Ibrahim al-Hasan told the London-based daily al-Quds al-Arabi.
Raghad added her father must have been drugged before he was captured by US forces.
"How do you believe they can capture him if they didn't drug him? I don't doubt it, I'm sure that they couldn't (have captured him otherwise)," she said.
"The truth is that I am proud this person is my father... We all know the intention of the way he was displayed. Where is the democracy? Where is the immunity that state leaders are granted? A lion remains a lion even when he is captured."
Several prominent lawyers have offered to defend Saddam after his capture by US troops in the Iraqi town of Tikrit on Saturday.
Presumed innocent
Saddam is now in American military custody in an undisclosed location inside Iraq where he is being interrogated.
French lawyer Jacques Verges, famous for representing Gestapo leader Klaus Barbie and international guerrilla Carlos the Jackal, said on Monday that Saddam must be presumed innocent at any trial.
Verges added that hiding him away was against international conventions.
In Turkey, a lawyer from the western city of Izmir applied on Tuesday to be allowed to defend the former Iraqi president.
Eldest daughter Raghad says she
is proud of her father
In his petition to the Iraqi authorities, Atinc Gultekin accused the US of trying to turn "Saddam's trial into a show of power".
'A great man'
He offered to represent the former Iraqi leader to "make sure
that he is tried... without political pressure and in line with
international law in his home country".
And a Lebanese lawyer told Aljazeera.net she intended to send a letter to Saddam Hussein through the Red Cross in Lebanon.
In her letter, Bushra al-Khalil told Saddam: "Your image which appeared yesterday on TV showing you in the hands of those hypocrites made me feel that you are the only free Arab man, while... all other Arabs without exception are the real prisoners.
"We have to tell this great man that he is not alone, we are grateful to him, and we have not forgotten that he has been serving our just causes."
Execution
Meanwhile, the spokesman for Iraq's interim governing council said on Tuesday Saddam would get a "just and fair" trial that would become a symbol of a new, democratic Iraq.
"I think the trial will be just and fair because all parties are interested in making it fair," Intifadh Qanbar said.
But one of the Iraqi tribunal's architects said the country's war crimes court would not be ready to try Saddam Hussein for months.
Dara Nur al-Din added any decision to execute Saddam would be in the hands of a transitional government set to be formed next year.
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted December 17, 2003 12:59 AM |
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Hamsi: It has been my experience in the UK that fair trials more often than not lead to the proper sentence, and in the states such a system rarely leads to death row without appeal. your version of the Modern day laws doesn't seem to relate to the international courts either.
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
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posted December 17, 2003 04:18 AM |
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This just in:
WMD Labs
It's Al Jazeera, so I don't know if it is true, but the story is good for the US so I would assume it is true because Al Jazeera wouldn't support the US unless it was absolutely true. Oh well, still an interesting story though.
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Lews_Therin
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted December 17, 2003 01:17 PM |
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Looks like Wolfman has found Weapons of Mass Destruction again.
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Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
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posted December 17, 2003 10:32 PM |
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Nevermind, once again, Al Jazeera is full of crap. Just when I thought they might have covered a good story, they let me down once again. Oh well. 
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Peacemaker
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
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posted December 18, 2003 01:11 AM |
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Why do you think they were full of crap Wolfman?
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Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
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posted December 18, 2003 01:42 AM |
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They favored Saddam in those issues. They don't think, from their stories that they publish, that Saddam was a bad person. I think we can agree that Saddam was a very bad person.
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Peacemaker
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
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posted December 19, 2003 01:37 AM |
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(still confused)
How does their favoritism toward Saddam make the story full of crap? You would think (as you suggested)that a bias in favor of him would only lend further credibility to the story...
Did I miss something here?
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I have menopause and a handgun. Any questions?
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Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
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posted December 19, 2003 01:45 AM |
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Not that story, yes, it would bring credibility (sp?) to it though. I was talking about Al Jazeera in general, a lot of what I read there is false or so biased it is comical. I say that story wasn't true because no other news source that I go to had that story. You would think it big news, finding WMDs. But it wasn't on CNN, MSNBC, FOX... Still confused?
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Peacemaker
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
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posted December 19, 2003 05:13 PM |
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LOL! Wolfman, confused is my typical state of being.
Thanks.
I have received an e-mail marked "confidential" (through a couple of forward channels) from one of the participants in the raid which successfully landed Saddam on Saturday. I have just responded asking for sure if confidentiality is waived, but it's quite a report. I will release it upon verification that I have permission to do so, but since it's already been forwarded a couple of times I imagine the response will be that it is alright. I just got so excited I had to tell you guys.
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I have menopause and a handgun. Any questions?
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Peacemaker
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
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posted December 19, 2003 10:53 PM |
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Permission has been granted.
Here it is:
ALL,
As you all know by now, we have captured Saddam Hussein. The 1st Brigade Combat Team "Raiders", 4th Infantry Division (M) with Special Ops forces caught HVT#1. I participated in this raid last night which started at about 1900 7PM) as we quickly rehearsed the plan. This was a joint operation between 1st Brigade, 4ID and Special Ops Forces. After we rehearsed the plan at a grain storage facility in Tikrit (that smelled like an outhouse by the way!), we mounted up and drove about 20km south to Ad Dawr. We had Humvees and some armored Bradley Infantry Fighting Vehicles and the Special Ops guys brought their toys. I won't go into what they ride around in, but
they've got some nice vehicles and equipment! One vehicle you'd never expect to see over here! Totally out of place but totally fits the Special Ops "look".
We drove at about 40-50 MPH in total darkness on the highway across the Tigris River and headed south to the small town of Ad Dawr. We used our Night Vision Goggles as we sped down the road as some of the locals watched this convoy of about 30 vehicles speed by in the moonless night. Wonder what they were thinking? Last night was pitch black with no moon until about 2130hrs (9:30PM).
After we hit the objectives (Wolverine 1 & 2) we set a cordon and began the search. Initially we didn't find him and the Special Ops soldiers in the house were being led away from his #1's "rat hole" by an Iraqi that was in the house.
Well, the "rat hole" was discovered and the cover moved and sure enough, there he was down in the bottom! Our Special Ops guys whisked him away in a "Little Bird" (small Special Ops helicopter) off to Tikrit for a quick stop and then off to Baghdad.
We drove all the way back up to Tikrit in disbelief that we had finally found this guy! All the work and intelligence gathering we have done for the past 8 months have paid off! It has been quite amazing watching us narrow the ring around this guy. We have got an amazing "wiring diagram" with Saddam Hussein in the middle working outwards starting with his children, wives, cousins, uncles, nephews, bodyguards, drivers, etc. Amazing! We just followed up on all the clues we have gathered and here we are. The last two weeks we have really been "cleaning house" on Saddam Husseins most trusted aides. We have had a great working relationship with our Special Ops brothers. We have shared information and worked together for so long on this that it's great to be able to say that "I was part of the unit that caught Saddam Hussein!"
I have a great photo of him in the house that I'll try to send, but it's a very big file. Over 2 MB! I'll try to send it in another email as an attachment!
This e-mail was went originally to a friend of a friend on December 14, 2003 from a Brigade Fire Support Officer in the 1st Brigade Combat Team, 4th Infantry Division (Mechanized) RAIDERS!
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I have menopause and a handgun. Any questions?
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Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
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posted December 19, 2003 11:11 PM |
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That's great! 
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Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
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posted December 21, 2003 03:57 AM |
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Attention! Slightly Off-Topic Post!
I found out where Saddam has hidden the WMDs!
WMDs
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dArGOn
Famous Hero
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posted December 24, 2003 06:24 AM |
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Well it is clear now even to the appeasers that the Bush doctrine continues to flourish and bring the world into more safety. After the Iraqis were freed and Saddam removed from power that was but the beginning.
Following the amazing victory in Iraq, Iran allowed for UN inspectors. Now Libya has admitted inspectors and moved towards destruction of its WMD program. Moammar Gadhafi even admitted that it was his fear of Bush and the coarliton that prompted him to take this course of action.
Now finally will the appeasors admit their error? Probably not….sad.
Long live the coalition and its courage and foresight
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Humans are gods with anuses -Earnest Becker
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Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
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posted December 24, 2003 06:26 AM |
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I'm glad we don't have someone like Chamberlain for a president. Greatest appeaser of all time.
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dArGOn
Famous Hero
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posted December 24, 2003 06:27 AM |
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Quote
“I do think though that not even Bush would be stupid enough to be blatant about his use of this as a political advantage, but neither directly was Thatcher.”
Huh? The Commander in Chief is not suppose to point to his war victories and success as reason for reelection??? That wouldn’t make sense.
But in the end….the economy is mostly what American’s vote for. If the economy is good…then Bush is re-elected…if not then he gets the boot. Since the economy is roaring back from the Clinton recession and 9/11…gains we haven’t witnessed in 20 years…it is most likely Bush will be re-elected...yippee
Quote
“Oh, and for the record, British politics are much more boring!”
I don’t know…the English parliament is rumored to be a rather rancorous bunch...kind of like a mild form of “professional” wrestling using words, shouts, jeers, etc in place of physical moves...or is that just rumor?
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Humans are gods with anuses -Earnest Becker
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Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
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posted December 24, 2003 06:33 AM |
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Quote:
I don’t know…the English parliament is rumored to be a rather rancorous bunch...kind of like a mild form of “professional” wrestling using words, shouts, jeers, etc in place of physical moves...or is that just rumor?
I've read that was how it was when Churchill was in Parliament, but I don't know now. I ment politics that are out for the public, on the news and such was more boring. I think it would be fun to sit in on a British Parliament session...on an important issue anyway. I really wouldn't care about the restoration of some palace...or the Ghost-bustering of the Tudor castle.
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dArGOn
Famous Hero
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posted December 24, 2003 07:35 AM |
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Quote:
damn,does this mean the republicans now have a better chance at the election?? We're all doomed.
Ah yes...the Republicans have been at the forefront of freedom and bringing about safety ever since our founder Abraham Lincoln freed the slaves. Reagan continued the great acts by bringing about the fall of the imperialistic USSR...now Bush has brought down the tyrannical and dangerous regimes in Afghanistan and Iraq. What the world needs is more republicans
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Humans are gods with anuses -Earnest Becker
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