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Skeggy
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 07, 2016 10:13 AM |
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magnomagus said: @SKeggy: NO! H55 is no longer based on racial skills so these should not be used as representative.
If you don't wish racial skills then make a proposal of main visual themes and colors.
Ease-of-access of choice of clicking on all-race skillwheel has to be made based on clear visual distinction, because otherwise, well, in my opinion, otherwise is just easier to use three main tree icons.
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thGryphn
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 07, 2016 10:19 AM |
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Skeggy said:
thGryphn said: A current screenshot of the in-game skill wheel, no perk icons though, so just an overview:
Now, there is no texture loaded other than the background and perk icons. The skill/perk descriptions, hero faction, hero class, primary stats and probabilities are all text.
This way it's very light and ready for translation into other languages
Hope you like it!
I was wondering, same question goes to Belisarius too, why are you using those anti-intuitive main faction icons? Why don't you use, for effective and intuitive faction visual orientation, more intuitive and visually more appealing icons, like, for example:
Knights, Paladins, Heretics - icon of Expert Trainer.
Rangers, Wardens and Druids – icon of Ultimate Avenger.
Demon Lords, Gatekeepers and Sorcerers – icon of Ultimate Gating.
Death Knights, Reavers and Necromancers – icon of Ultimate Necromancy.
Seers, Wizards and Elementalists - icon of Ultimate Artificer.
Overlords, Assassins and Warlocks – icon of Ultimate Irresistible Magic
Engineers, Runemages and Flamekeepers – icon of Ultimate Runelore
Chieftains, Veterans and Shamans – icon of Ultimate Blood Rage
Because, once more, those icons that are user for main visual orientation are anti-intuitive, visually non-appealing, and utterly ineffective for purpose of quick and effective visual orientation.
I can understand that you wish to make a symbolic new beginning, however, main faction icon simply have to be visually effective to make a quick choice based on a clear visual distinction without having a terrible headache or visual stress because they all look so bleakly.
Hmm, let's see, those icons you see for each of the classes are the icons for their specializations. Knight: Combat. Paladin: Light Magic. Heretic: Dark Magic. And goes on.
So, I did not decide on those icons. They're part of MMH5.5 and I'm merely using the class specialization information that defines the classes to differentiate between the classes. Yes, it is very unintuitive :insertsarcasm:
I'm sorry you didn't see that. I hope others did, and if they did not, I think they will have to make that connection, which shouldn't be very hard as, again, it's there by design.
Look, I understand well how important visual cues are in graphic design, and I'm trying to design something that's visually attractive, uncluttered and functional at the same time. I'm always open to suggestions but please have the courtesy first to ask about my choices before you condemn them
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Skeggy
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 07, 2016 10:26 AM |
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thGryphn said:
Skeggy said:
thGryphn said: A current screenshot of the in-game skill wheel, no perk icons though, so just an overview:
Now, there is no texture loaded other than the background and perk icons. The skill/perk descriptions, hero faction, hero class, primary stats and probabilities are all text.
This way it's very light and ready for translation into other languages
Hope you like it!
I was wondering, same question goes to Belisarius too, why are you using those anti-intuitive main faction icons? Why don't you use, for effective and intuitive faction visual orientation, more intuitive and visually more appealing icons, like, for example:
Knights, Paladins, Heretics - icon of Expert Trainer.
Rangers, Wardens and Druids – icon of Ultimate Avenger.
Demon Lords, Gatekeepers and Sorcerers – icon of Ultimate Gating.
Death Knights, Reavers and Necromancers – icon of Ultimate Necromancy.
Seers, Wizards and Elementalists - icon of Ultimate Artificer.
Overlords, Assassins and Warlocks – icon of Ultimate Irresistible Magic
Engineers, Runemages and Flamekeepers – icon of Ultimate Runelore
Chieftains, Veterans and Shamans – icon of Ultimate Blood Rage
Because, once more, those icons that are user for main visual orientation are anti-intuitive, visually non-appealing, and utterly ineffective for purpose of quick and effective visual orientation.
I can understand that you wish to make a symbolic new beginning, however, main faction icon simply have to be visually effective to make a quick choice based on a clear visual distinction without having a terrible headache or visual stress because they all look so bleakly.
Hmm, let's see, those icons you see for each of the classes are the icons for their specializations. Knight: Combat. Paladin: Light Magic. Heretic: Dark Magic. And goes on.
So, I did not decide on those icons. They're part of MMH5.5 and I'm merely using the class specialization information that defines the classes to differentiate between the classes. Yes, it is very unintuitive :insertsarcasm:
I'm sorry you didn't see that. I hope others did, and if they did not, I think they will have to make that connection, which shouldn't be very hard as, again, it's there by design.
Look, I understand well how important visual cues are in graphic design, and I'm trying to design something that's visually attractive, uncluttered and functional at the same time. I'm always open to suggestions but please have the courtesy first to ask about my choices before you condemn them
I apologize and I am sorry for my assumption that you chose and made the relevant icons.
Perhaps it is best to use racial shadow that very set of now-not-racially-defined heroes leave on the ground.
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thGryphn
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 07, 2016 10:27 AM |
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@Skeggy
If you're talking only about the faction icons, I simply grabbed them from Ubi's site. Well, it's their Ashan lore that we're in and I suppose they're valid for MMH5.5 too. You can't say they're unintuitive, etc. because well, they are intuitive because Ubi has been using them consistently since H5...
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Skeggy
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 07, 2016 10:32 AM |
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thGryphn said: @Skeggy
If you're talking only about the faction icons, I simply grabbed them from Ubi's site. Well, it's their Ashan lore that we're in and I suppose they're valid for MMH5.5 too. You can't say they're unintuitive, etc. because well, they are intuitive because Ubi has been using them consistently since H5...
In my opinion, those icons do not carry enough of relevant visual difference for them to be used as basis of quick intuitive choice.
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted April 07, 2016 10:39 AM |
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Skeggy
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 07, 2016 10:46 AM |
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magnomagus said: @ThGrypn: I don't mind if you just set lead,defense and shat light to 8% to make it even, but i won't change it in game, it doesn't really matter since these numbers are only rough 'more or less' indications, ingame the exact numbers will constantly change.
and yes shamans start with 'any shatter'.
I thought that every Shaman starts with exactly defined shatter:
Daughter of Chaos starts with Shatter Destructive
Daughter of Nature with Shutter Summoning
Daughter of Darkness with Shatter Light
Daughter of Light with Shatter Darkness.
And yes, if you wish to insist on those icons, at least allow the removal of the the windy flags and make main figure more distinctive (without the flag).
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thGryphn
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 07, 2016 10:47 AM |
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Skeggy said:
thGryphn said: @Skeggy
If you're talking only about the faction icons, I simply grabbed them from Ubi's site. Well, it's their Ashan lore that we're in and I suppose they're valid for MMH5.5 too. You can't say they're unintuitive, etc. because well, they are intuitive because Ubi has been using them consistently since H5...
In my opinion, those icons do not carry enough of relevant visual difference for them to be used as basis of quick intuitive choice.
Not to argue, but on the contrary, I find them both visually good-looking and easily distinguishable, thanks to the color themes that also identifies the factions. I mean, icon content+color, what else are we looking for from a simple square texture to be distinguishable. You may say you're not familiar with those symbols, which would be another story. I am very familiar, and I believe most people who have played Ubi's Heroes incarnations are...
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thGryphn
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 07, 2016 10:53 AM |
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Skeggy said:
And yes, if you wish to insist on those icons, at least allow the removal of the the windy flags and make main figure more distinctive (without the flag).
I didn't make the icons, they came with the flags from Ubi's website. I too wish I could find those icons nicely without those flags. If anyone has them, I'll happily try those and compare. For now, I'm not bothered by the flags. They do bring the color element...
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Skeggy
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 07, 2016 10:54 AM |
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thGryphn said:
Skeggy said:
And yes, if you wish to insist on those icons, at least allow the removal of the the windy flags and make main figure more distinctive (without the flag).
I didn't make the icons, they came with the flags from Ubi's website. I too wish I could find those icons nicely without those flags. If anyone has them, I'll happily try those and compare. For now, I'm not bothered by the flags. They do bring the color element...
Where exactly did you see those icons in Homm 5, 4 or 3?
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted April 07, 2016 11:02 AM |
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@thGryphn
Looks great !
I however see what Skeggy means, as you certainly know H5 got crazy retconned with mmh6&7, maybe that is what can be disturbing to some with the visuals you chose for factions icons, why not use the older versions from h5 (which imo also look better):
____________
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thGryphn
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 07, 2016 11:22 AM |
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Galaad said: @thGryphn
Looks great !
I however see what Skeggy means, as you certainly know H5 got crazy retconned with mmh6&7, maybe that is what can be disturbing to some with the visuals you chose for factions icons, why not use the older versions from h5 (which imo also look better):
Awesomeness! Done! Thanks a lot, I hadn't seen these nice images! I'll see what I can do with them
Skeggy said:
thGryphn said:
Skeggy said:
And yes, if you wish to insist on those icons, at least allow the removal of the the windy flags and make main figure more distinctive (without the flag).
I didn't make the icons, they came with the flags from Ubi's website. I too wish I could find those icons nicely without those flags. If anyone has them, I'll happily try those and compare. For now, I'm not bothered by the flags. They do bring the color element...
Where exactly did you see those icons in Homm 5, 4 or 3?
Not 4 or 3, or course, they're not Ubi games. Galaad gave the link for H5. You don't necessarily see them in-game but they're the faction symbols in Ashan lore...
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted April 07, 2016 11:26 AM |
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted April 07, 2016 11:45 AM |
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Edited by Galaad at 11:47, 07 Apr 2016.
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On a visual level I find them more readable and on a conceptual level as said above I think is better to use the ones from h5 because of the retcons from the further games (not that I care much about Ashan lore anyway). Your mod your call though of course.
____________
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Belisarius
Promising
Known Hero
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posted April 07, 2016 12:34 PM |
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Galaad said: @thGryphn
Looks great !
I however see what Skeggy means, as you certainly know H5 got crazy retconned with mmh6&7, maybe that is what can be disturbing to some with the visuals you chose for factions icons, why not use the older versions from h5 (which imo also look better):
I am using these, instead of the h6-7 ones, for some practical reason too: they are with transparent background. So they cover less space from the background town theme video. If using h6-7 race symbols, that are not too small (so they are visible), a larger portion of background would be covered, resulting in the right part of the screen being almost completely filled with static pictures.
I also tried to put transparency on the 3 pictures representing racial Classes, but without satisfying result. On the other hand if those 3 pictures are made smaller, they would not be visible/readable enough on all resolutions.
I must however say that in some way I do like h6-7 race symbols somewhat better. They look good on gryphon skeelwheel. I would keep them as they are now in skeelwheel and keep the h5 ones on videos. I find those two sets of pictures consistent with each other, with just details in question. Details that are concerning different way of presentation: skillwheel and video.
That is if a better solution with h6-7 pictures for videos is not suggested.
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thGryphn
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 07, 2016 05:34 PM |
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Belisarius said:
I am using these, instead of the h6-7 ones, for some practical reason too: they are with transparent background. So they cover less space from the background town theme video. If using h6-7 race symbols, that are not too small (so they are visible), a larger portion of background would be covered, resulting in the right part of the screen being almost completely filled with static pictures.
I also tried to put transparency on the 3 pictures representing racial Classes, but without satisfying result. On the other hand if those 3 pictures are made smaller, they would not be visible/readable enough on all resolutions.
I must however say that in some way I do like h6-7 race symbols somewhat better. They look good on gryphon skeelwheel. I would keep them as they are now in skeelwheel and keep the h5 ones on videos. I find those two sets of pictures consistent with each other, with just details in question. Details that are concerning different way of presentation: skillwheel and video.
That is if a better solution with h6-7 pictures for videos is not suggested.
One thing is for certain: I love the current faction icons. They're colorful, very good quality icons that goes very well with the colorful skill/perk icons on the skill wheel. Overall, there is a coherence in the skill wheel design, not to brag. Earthy colors, and an overall color-based intuition and information. For example, if you haven't noticed, the reason the skill wheel is colored that way is due to the skill probabilities. Specifically, you're looking at the current Barbarian skill wheel.
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted April 07, 2016 06:41 PM |
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thGryphn
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 07, 2016 09:53 PM |
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Edited by thGryphn at 21:55, 07 Apr 2016.
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Alright, I couldn't resist trying the new logos and I think I got something good. So much so that I'm impossibly conflicted. Help me out, which design is better, upper ones or the lower ones?
Edit: Observe the new wheel
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EotT
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 07, 2016 10:57 PM |
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I don't know which one is better, but I like the structure of the second one: The faction image is visually separated from the skill images.
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etore
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 07, 2016 11:36 PM |
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The above looks better, but I think if you use the same shape in the others they will be as good as. And even better without the banners/flags that hinder the images.
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