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| Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions |  This Popular Thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 40 80 120 160 200 ... 206 207 208 209 210 · «PREV |
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted April 28, 2025 09:50 AM |
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Edited by MattII at 14:12, 28 Apr 2025.
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Brevan said:
n is a number that multiplies Spell Power, and changes with the spell. For example Magic Arrow has n=10, Lightning Bolt has n=25. MattII is suggesting that to split Water Magic from the other schools, maybe Spell Power could reduce the cost of spells instead of increase damage (normally Basic specialization decreases cost).
x is a number affected by the level of specialization in the magic school (non, Basic, Advanced, Expert). For example, Magic Arrow has x=10 (I think) damage for Basic and x=30 for Expert specialization, while Armageddon gets much more (+50 to +150?). A large value for x means an Expert caster might have very little Spell Power but still have a good amount of damage. MattII is suggesting that to split Air Magic from the other schools, maybe specialization could have a multiplicative affect (maybe +10% damage per level of specialization (EG +10% for Basic and +30% for Expert)).
Thank you. But it was purerogue3, not me who is making those suggestions.
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Syth1984
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 28, 2025 02:00 PM |
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Brevan said:
n is a number that multiplies Spell Power, and changes with the spell. For example Magic Arrow has n=10, Lightning Bolt has n=25. MattII is suggesting that to split Water Magic from the other schools, maybe Spell Power could reduce the cost of spells instead of increase damage (normally Basic specialization decreases cost).
x is a number affected by the level of specialization in the magic school (non, Basic, Advanced, Expert). For example, Magic Arrow has x=10 (I think) damage for Basic and x=30 for Expert specialization, while Armageddon gets much more (+50 to +150?). A large value for x means an Expert caster might have very little Spell Power but still have a good amount of damage. MattII is suggesting that to split Air Magic from the other schools, maybe specialization could have a multiplicative affect (maybe +10% damage per level of specialization (EG +10% for Basic and +30% for Expert)).
Reducing spell cost won't work. There are a lot of ways to deal with spell points( Artifacts, stacking knowledge, intelligence, mysticism. This would put water magic immediately at disadvantage and undesired. (Unless you increase the effects of water magic spells with it's spell cost by like x3 amount. If you can cast it it has huge kind of effect)
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purerogue3
Known Hero
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posted April 29, 2025 07:03 PM |
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Could you perhaps explain these in more detail? You don't explain what 'n' and 'x' stand for.
Just the standard way it is now, in formulaic
SP*n : spell power times multiplier
+x : fixed bonus for each magic school speciality level
*x : the bonus is a MULTIPLIER instead of an additive
-x : at SP=10, your casting cost is halved
n is multipler to SP
x is additive or multiplier to spec level
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purerogue3
Known Hero
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posted April 29, 2025 07:15 PM |
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Syth1984 said:
Reducing spell cost won't work. There are a lot of ways to deal with spell points( Artifacts, stacking knowledge, intelligence, mysticism. This would put water magic immediately at disadvantage and undesired. (Unless you increase the effects of water magic spells with it's spell cost by like x3 amount. If you can cast it it has huge kind of effect)
(re prev.post -I see Brevan already answered.)
That was LC's idea, what is the point if all four schools damage spells are identical, except for their few immunities/vulnerabilities?
He choose Water, maybe because Clone,Bless,Prayer are very powerful spells that do not depend on spell power.. so it could be a theme.
Also make it lvl3 (requiring wisdom) (for Ice Bolt) for a kicker.
So like a if you have a novice mage, but knows wisdom, can cause 100+dmg with like 2 spell power. Also makes knowledge more valuable to such a hero.
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wojtulace
Hired Hero
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posted April 30, 2025 10:52 AM |
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[spoiler]joyfun said:
Magic Rebalance
Duration of buffs:
As soon as you gather some spellpower, buffs/debuffs last for so long that the player no longed needs to think about when a certain effect expires. They also don't scale with spellpower, unlike the damaging spells. Hence, a new spell duration formula is: 1+(SpellPower/4) [rounded down] turns.
With this change, the spell duration artifacts would count more.
Cost of casting mass buffs:
Mass buffs and debuffs are way too cheap for the impact they have.
Therefore, I propose to triple the cost of each mass spell and make possible to cast a single target version ('advanced' level spell) for the normal cost (by adding mass and normal versions to the spellbook or by holding a key for example). After this change, the level 1 mass buffs would cost 15 mana.
Alternatively, they could be an AoE spells with a range equal to the expert level Berserk (Heroes V style). In that case, their cost would double and not triple.
When a buff is applied on a opposite debuff (ex. Bless-Curse), and vice-versa, the effect should be nullified instead of replaced.
All the level 1 buff/debuffs cost 7/5 mana.
Specific changes
Protection From Air (and other elements)
Aside from air damage protection, also reduces the duration of incoming air debuffs by 25%/50%/50%.
All protections are now level 1 spells.
Blind
Blind is now a level 3 spell.
Deactivating attack is retaliated at 100/50/0% of base attack rating.
Duration: 1*SP -> 1+SP/3 [rounded down] turns.
Cost: 10/8 -> 16/12
Berserk
Berserk is now a level 5 spell.
Cost: 20/16 -> 35/30
Teleport
A unit can teleport over walls only at the expert level.
Cost: 15/12/6/3 -> 15/12/9/9
Hypnotize
Hypnotize is now a level 5 water magic spell.
Max HP to control: 20/50/100 + 25*SP -> 200/400/600 + 80/100/120*SP
The duration is 2 turns.
Cost: 30/25
Disrupting ray
Reduce defense by 3/4/5 -> 3/5/7
Fortune, Misfortune, Sorrow, Mirth
Morale/luck change from 1/2/2 to 2/3/3
Prayer
Cost 16/12 -> 16/12/12/30
Fire shield
Reflected damage: 20/25/30% -> 30/40/50%
Forgetfulness
Now 30/50/50% of ranged creatures forget to shoot and meele creatures to counterattack.
Cost: 12/9/9/18
Quicksand
Number of sand pits: 4/6/8 -> 6/9/12
Counterstrike
Counterstrike is now a level 3 spell.
Force Field
At expert level, the field lasts 3 turns.
Precision
Precision is now a level 3 spell.
Removes a distance damage penalty from a ranged unit.
Cost: 15/12/9/18
Dimension Door
Dimension Door is now a fire magic spell.
None: Teleport once per day to a free tile within a radius of 8 tiles around the Hero.
Basic: Same as None, but then 10 tiles radius.
Advanced: Same as None, but then 12 tiles radius.
Expert: Same as None, but then 15 tiles radius.
Town Portal
Town Portal is now a level 5 spell.
None: %100 of your movement(you cannot move that day) and only teleports to the nearest city
Basic: %70 of your movement( you can only portal once)
Advanced: %50 of your movement( you can either portal twice or move and portal)
Expert: %35 of your movement( you can portal two times with some movement left)
Cost: 16/12 -> 25/20
Regrouped view air/earth spells
View Air:
Shows artifacts in explored area
Shows all artifacts
Shows all Artifacts and Castles
View Earth:
Shows building (as in, Windmills, ...) in explored area
Shows all buildings
Shows all buildings (also reveals the tile they are placed on) and map layout
View Life:
Shows Wandering Monsters in explored areas
Shows Wandering Monsters and Heroes in explored areas
Shows all Wandering Monsters (also reveals the tile they stand on) and Heroes
View Recourses:
Shows resources in explored areas
Shows resources and mines in explored areas
Shows recourses and mines in all areas (also reveals the tile mines are placed)
Damage spells
Damage spells, in comparison to the non-damaging ones, barely scale with the level of corresponding magic school. Changes below aim to correct that (don't look too much at specific numbers, but rather how these spells could scale with the magic schools).
Implosion
Damage: 100/200/300 + 75*SP -> 100/200/300 + 50/60/70*SP
Chain Lightning
Damage: 25/50/100 + 40*SP -> 40/70/100 + 26/33/40*SP
Meteor Shower
Damage: 25/50/100 + 25*SP -> 30/60/90 + 15/20/25*SP
Cost: 16/12 -> 20/16
Frost Ring and Fireball
Damage: 15/30/60 + 10*SP -> 20/40/60 + 10/15/20*SP
Cost: 12/9 -> 16/12
Inferno
Damage: 20/40/80 + 10*SP -> 20/40/60 + 12/16/20*SP
Cost: 16/12 -> 24/20
Death Ripple
Damage: 10/20/30 + 5*SP -> 10/20/30 + 4/6/8*SP
Cost: 10/8 -> 12/10
Firewall
Damage: 10/20/50 + 10*SP -> 10/20/30 + 10/10/15*SP
Lighting Bolt
Damage: 10/20/50 + 25*SP -> 10/20/30 + 15/25/35*SP
Cost: 10/8 -> 12/10
Ice Bolt
At expert level, reduces enemy movement by 1 for the next turn.
Damage: 10/20/50 + 20*SP -> 10/20/30 + 15/25/25*SP
Cost: 8/6 -> 12/10
Land Mines
Land Mines is now a level 2 spell
Damage: 25/50/100 + 10*SP -> 25/50/75 + 10/13/16*SP
Magic Arrow
Damage: 10/20/30 + 10*SP -> 10/20/30 + 9/11/13*SP*<Number of learned schools of magic>
Cost: 4 -> 3+3*<Number of learned schools of magic>
Resurrection
Health restored: 40/80/160 * 50*SP -> 50/100/150 * 40/40/50*SP
Animate Dead
Now requires at least advanced level for animated undead units to stay after battle.
On Expert level can also bring back living units, but only for the duration of battle.
Health restored: 30/60/160 * 50*SP -> 60/100/140 * 40/40/50*SP
Sacrifice
Sacrifice is now a level 4 spell.
Formula changed to CreatureMaxHP*NumberOfCreatures*(0.6/0.9/1.2+0.2/0.25/0.3*SP)
New and reworked spells
Slayer
Increases attack and defense by 4*Glory.
When a unit with Slayer buff kills another unit, his Glory increases by (KilledCreatureFightValue*KilledCreatureCount) / (SlayerCreatureFightValue*0.7*SlayerCreatureCount).
Duration: 0.25/0.33/0.5*SP turns [rounded up]
Cost: 30/25
Magic Mirror
When cast on a creature, any targeted spell cast by a friendly hero on that creature is also cast on the closest unit, friendly or enemy (random if there are 2 or more units within the same range).
Cost: 30/25
Air Shield
Air Shield is now a level 4 spell and there is no mass version of it.
Gives a unit a shield that blocks 50% of the damage received until destroyed.
Shield health: 100/200/300 + 50/65/80*SP
Cost: 30/25
Vampirism
This is a level 5 water magic spell.
Allied unit becomes undead and heals when dealing damage (like vampires).
HP drained: 30/35/40% + (1.4/1.7/2*SP)% of damage dealt
Cost: 30/25
Tsunami
This is a level 5 water magic spell.
A huge tidal wave sweeps through units, damaging them.
The range is equal to Inferno.
Damage: 30/60/90 + 15/20/25*SP
Cost: 30/25
Purity
This is a level 3 water magic spell.
Same as frenzy, but with defense instead of attack.
Cost: 12/9
Castle Gate
This is a level 2 fire magic spell.
Functions like Town Portal, except it can only teleport to cities with Dimension Gate built. Is automatically added to the mage guild after the completion of DG building.
Cost: 16/12
[/spoiler]
That's a fine rebalance I guess. I especially like the new spells - Vampirism and MagicMirror (CastleGate is interesting too), maybe because they're from HoMM V.
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Syth1984
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 02, 2025 11:17 AM |
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wojtulace said:
[spoiler]joyfun said:
Magic Rebalance
Duration of buffs:
As soon as you gather some spellpower, buffs/debuffs last for so long that the player no longed needs to think about when a certain effect expires. They also don't scale with spellpower, unlike the damaging spells. Hence, a new spell duration formula is: 1+(SpellPower/4) [rounded down] turns.
With this change, the spell duration artifacts would count more.
=>Duration should depend on the spell level as well.
Specific changes
Forgetfulness
Now 30/50/50% of ranged creatures forget to shoot and meele creatures to counterattack.
Cost: 12/9/9/18
=>Would change the spell a lot. I am open though.
Counterstrike
Counterstrike is now a level 3 spell.
=>Should increase the damage of "counter strike" by +%15 ,+%30, +%40 rather than giving extra retaliation.That would fix it.
Town Portal
Town Portal is now a level 5 spell.
None: %100 of your movement(you cannot move that day) and only teleports to the nearest city
Basic: %70 of your movement( you can only portal once)
Advanced: %50 of your movement( you can either portal twice or move and portal)
Expert: %35 of your movement( you can portal two times with some movement left)
Cost: 16/12 -> 25/20
=>You are already debuffing the spell.But keeping the castle choosing option in Earth skill would still make the earth magic a must. I think requiring %100 movement already solves the problem (No dimension door ,no logistics,no boots can help you know  )
Death Ripple
Damage: 10/20/30 + 5*SP -> 10/20/30 + 4/6/8*SP
Cost: 10/8 -> 12/10
=>Mehh still a bad spell.Destroy undead and death ripple are by logic mass effecting spells and that should be reflected.They could do an additiona 0.5 damage to the stack per unit effected. So a pikeman with 100 would get additional 50damage while 2 titans would only get 1 damage.
Resurrection
Health restored: 40/80/160 * 50*SP -> 50/100/150 * 40/40/50*SP
=> There should be a permanent aspect to it and the skill level should decrease it. At the end of the battle;
No skill: %30 of the resurrected are lost
Basic: %25 of the resurretected are lost
Advanced : %20 of the resurrected are lost
Expert:%15 of the resurrected are lost.
Animate dead (Renamed animate) could have +%5 more losses per level and could animate constructs as well.
Air Shield
Air Shield is now a level 4 spell and there is no mass version of it.
Gives a unit a shield that blocks 50% of the damage received until destroyed.
Shield health: 100/200/300 + 50/65/80*SP
Cost: 30/25
=> Would be very weak.It doesnt get so much action as it is.
Tsunami
This is a level 5 water magic spell.
A huge tidal wave sweeps through units, damaging them.
The range is equal to Inferno.
Damage: 30/60/90 + 15/20/25*SP
Cost: 30/25
=> There is a spell called Tsunami in other heroes games.If it pushed them back a little that would be nice .
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wojtulace
Hired Hero
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posted May 08, 2025 11:51 AM |
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I like the idea of Tsunami pushing back. Would be cool if other damaging spells had effects too.
Quote:
Duration should depend on the spell level as well.
I don't think it necessarily has to - the effectiveness of buff spells already greatly differs by level.
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