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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions
Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions This thread is 18 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 · «PREV / NEXT»
krs
krs


Famous Hero
posted March 10, 2017 07:19 PM

For all the reasons above, replace eagle eye with another skill. Do not bother trying to make it better.

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skaniol
skaniol

Tavern Dweller
posted March 11, 2017 05:27 AM
Edited by skaniol at 05:29, 11 Mar 2017.

Hourglass said:

Also notice that all skills in this game do only one thing at a time: Logistics and Navigation increase your movement, Offense and Archery your attack and so on. No skill makes two things in this game. So while ideas of being able to see what's inside of a windmill or shrine remain interesting, I'm pretty sure that Hota team will not combine two skills in one slot. why wouldn't that kind of skills remain as their own?


Not sure if you are addressing my post, but I was not talking about combining two skills in one slot. I rather meant - every skill takes its own slot like regular, but if you collect a combination of skills - you unlock an extra effect (i.e. a skill has a bonus effect, but this effect is active only when you have learned another skill or skills). That's why I said similar to combo artifacts - every piece still occupies its slot, but you get bonus effects for wearing all pieces (the fact that you have to combine them manually is irrelevant).

Your statement that no skill makes two things in the game is simply wrong. Let me give you some counterexamples to yours:
1. 4 Magic schools:
a. increase effectiveness of spells
b. reduce cost of spells
5. Artillery has several effects:
a. manual control of Ballista
b. manual control of Arrow Towers
c. doubles shots and damage of Ballista
6. Ballistics:
a. manual control of Catapult
b. increases damage of boulder
c. allows two Catapult shots per turn
7. Diplomacy:
a. decreases cost of surrendering
b. allows wandering monsters to join for free/gold
c. reduces the requirements to enter the Library of Enlightment
8. First Aid:
a. manual control of tent
b. increased effectiveness of tent
9. Tactics:
a. allows to rearrange troops before combat
b. cancels enemy Tactics

BTW, Scholar is an example of a skill which basically needs a combination with Wisdom in order to gain its full effect. This is what I mean by a "combination of skills". It's not a merge of skills in one slot or something like that. It's just a rule - have these skills in order to gain these effects.

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Mehtih
Mehtih

Tavern Dweller
posted March 11, 2017 09:44 AM
Edited by Mehtih at 12:47, 13 Mar 2017.

I have some small suggestions about interface. Most of them shouldnít require a lot of work and, at least in my opinion, will make the game better.

- First off, the flags near towns and some of the world mapís buildings are very low quality in comparison to other things. Iíd suggest to replace them with good-looking flags used by heroes.

- The notification when we pick-up an artifact lacks the description of the event from original game as shown on screenshots below.




- During the start screen of a new campaign mission sometimes we can choose an artifact, but the description lacks the information what it actually does.

- Now something that may be controversial for you. Iíd like to see some heroes portraits redone (as HotA Crew already did with Vey), because they donít have the same fantasy feel as others or have strange pose and stuff like that. For example: Cyra, Saurug, Sephinroth, Nimbus, Septienna, Luna.

What I mean by good portraits with fantasy feel? Itís hard to describe, but here are few examples: Christian, Tyris, Beatrice, Isra, Sandro, Nagash, Lorelei.
____________

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted March 11, 2017 09:54 AM

Talking about flags, we really need flags on abandoned mines.
Also for some reason abandoned mines are'nt counted in the "Kingdom overview", they really should be.

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phonyamerican
phonyamerican

Tavern Dweller
posted March 12, 2017 07:15 AM

Make eagle eye drain opponents mana

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MCB
MCB


Hired Hero
posted March 12, 2017 08:06 AM

Balancing magic is easy, especially damage spells.

Magic arrow: None 3, Basic 9, Advanced 27, Expert 81.

Level 2: 5, 15, 45, 135.

Level 3: same as level 2, beacuse 3 level spells do hex damage and is too much.

Level 4: 10, 30, 90, 270.

Implosion: 15, 45, 135, 405.

This is x3 each level of school. In low level does minus damage than how it is but when you escalate in your magic school the upgrade is noticeable (if you have expert water, then you prefer cast ice bolt than lightning bolt for example).

Apart of this there are some spells with low effect like inferno or hypnotize.

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Erathianer
Erathianer


Hired Hero
posted March 13, 2017 11:36 AM

phonyamerican said:
Make eagle eye drain opponents mana


This is a good idea imo. Also it could be possible to see opponents spell points (current/max) when right clicking on them on the adventure map.

I have another suggestion, I dont know if it has been red but I would like to know what you guys think about it: Showing the names from the opponent hero in battle screen. It seems not very imporant but sometimes you really want to know against whom you are fighting, especially in campaigns and custom maps, where the names for some heroes are changed because of the storyline or something like that. Right now you cannot see the opponents name when you attack a hero in castle or get attacked on map and the hero comes out of the shadow.

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fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted March 13, 2017 12:58 PM

i have a question for the hota team: have you guys ever considered remaking the homm2 grass mountains, like you did with the homm2 sand dune mountains? i tried just recoloring the originals, but i think they're subpar. imo, they need added to the homm3 lineup properly, since they were beautiful in homm2; as beautiful as the dunes were(and the ones you guys made, are).

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skaniol
skaniol

Tavern Dweller
posted March 13, 2017 01:08 PM
Edited by skaniol at 07:14, 14 Mar 2017.

Erathianer said:

I have another suggestion, I dont know if it has been red but I would like to know what you guys think about it: Showing the names from the opponent hero in battle screen. It seems not very imporant but sometimes you really want to know against whom you are fighting, especially in campaigns and custom maps, where the names for some heroes are changed because of the storyline or something like that. Right now you cannot see the opponents name when you attack a hero in castle or get attacked on map and the hero comes out of the shadow.

Yes, that would be good. Here is a workaround to see the name of the enemy during battle - Bring up the "Surrender pop-up". You'll get to see "<enemy name> states:". Also, you can do a quick combat -> restart battle too.

Mehtih said:

- The notification when we pick-up an artifact lacks the description of the event from original game as shown on screenshots below.

This is a feature of the HD mod for people who don't want these extra pop-ups. The good thing is that you can bring these messages backs, if you want them. The option is called:
<UI.AdvMgr.SkipMapMsgs> = 1
Make it
<UI.AdvMgr.SkipMapMsgs> = 0
if you want to see the messages.

The option can be found in the Tweaks tab of the HD Launcher. You can also edit the ini file directly at:
Heroes3>_HD3_Data>Settings>hota.ini

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Supreme Hero
posted March 18, 2017 01:39 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 17:47, 20 Mar 2017.

I just come with an idea that may sound completly of but I think would be a nice ballancing issue. We all know how much more usefull an exceess of might primary skills is over the magic ones and how this weakens magic heroes, so my idea is: make the libraries give +3 to might and just +1 to magic to all magic heroes, while for the might ones keep the +2 in all four.

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homerofgods
homerofgods

Tavern Dweller
posted March 18, 2017 02:38 PM

- Feature suggestion: Enable you to see your allies fights, not against mobs on the map of course but big fights against other players

- Feature suggestion: Queue your movement. Enable you to see and change the path of your heroes while waiting for the other players to finish their turn.
____________

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MCB
MCB


Hired Hero
posted March 19, 2017 09:39 AM

For eagle eye can learn up to 5 level, and always 100 per cent.
Replace or remove its artifacts. And still a snow but there must be some snow skills. Other option is replace it but i think than hota crew don't want this.

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Hourglass
Hourglass


Hired Hero
posted March 19, 2017 06:06 PM

MCB said:
For eagle eye can learn up to 5 level, and always 100 per cent.
Replace or remove its artifacts. And still a snow but there must be some snow skills. Other option is replace it but i think than hota crew don't want this.


I don't see why there should be skills that are not worth picking at all? If some are designed to be bad, that's just, well, bad game design.

Actually it might be very possible that Hota Crew replaces Eagle Eye in the future.  Like phoenix said, Eagle Eye is already been disabled in some of their custom maps.

There's just no future for Eagle Eye - it's a bad skill by default. Other bad skills like Mysticism and Learning can be made much much more useful by just fixing their numbers, but Eagle Eye can't be treated the same - even you would learn the cast spell 300% of the time, it's still bad.

For people suggesting that Eagle Eye should do something else like drain mana, I would like to ask what does that have common with Eagle Eye's current state? Why change the skill when we can just replace it? Why not just get rid of Eagle Eye and introduce a skill called Mana Drain?

Why would removing and replacing Eagle Eye be a good idea:

1) Hota crew would have a free slot for their designed skill - just adding more skills now would probably mess up most peoples style of building a hero.
2) Since Eagle Eye would be gone, it would not mess up heroes - especially mages - as often, so the change would be a welcoming buff for magic heroes.
3) Bad heroes with starting Eagle Eye skill or (ugh) specialty would not show up in tavern, as their skills would be fixed as well.
4) The three EE related artifacts would not mess your starting hero by showing up as a starting artifact. Of course they would be replaced as well.
5) Also remember that Eagle Eye is not a key gameplay feature at all. Hota Crew has done much more radical choices like nerfing necromancy by 50%. Getting rid of one useless skill won't cause them any headache.

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phonyamerican
phonyamerican

Tavern Dweller
posted March 19, 2017 08:51 PM

I can see the good and the bad of replacing the Eagle Eye skill. Either way, I agree that something must change.

BAD:
Eagle Eye is a "Classic" part of HOMM3, and remove/replace would be a departure from the traditional aesthetic that many of us have grown used to.
Also, I suspect there is a much larger workload for the HoTA team to change ALL the skills, starting hero skills, artifacts, etc than to change the skill mechanic (which you would need to anyway). And, suppose it was replaced, then there would have to be a study as to whether characters like Geon get the NEW skill, or another one instead.

GOOD:
When you replace it, you avoid all confusion for new players, who are not familiar with the tweaks to the skill. Instead of saying "oh I do not want an Eagle Eye hero" from the get-go, they will think "whoa, what does skill X, do, I need to try that out..."


I, myself am in favor of leaving the name of the skill, heroes, associated artifacts, etc but change the mechanic. It keeps the old "look" but makes learning the skill useful. New players will be confused at first, but will figure it out quickly when they face an opponent with the MODDED Eagle eye skill Muahahahah!

Why do I think the skill should drain mana?
Because it adds an interesting change to the battles.

HYPOTHESIS (Subject to peer rejection)
Eagle Eye drains mana. Drained mana is lost. Drained mana is NOT added to opponent's mana stock.

Basic drains          -3       from opponent each turn
Advanced drains       -5       from opponent each turn
Expert drains         -7       from opponent each turn

Bird of perception    -1       from opponent each turn
Stoic watchman        -2       from opponent each turn
Emblem of cognizance  -3       from opponent each turn


Specializing in Eagle Eye adds -1 drain Basic, -2 for Advaced, and -3 for Expert, so in theory, an expert Geon can drain -10 each round in battle.

When two Eagle Eye opponents battle, formulas ensue:

Hero A [BASIC] Eagle Eye - Hero B [EXPERT] Eagle Eye
-3                       -                        -7
                   -Conclusion-
         Hero A looses -4 mana each round

Hero A [NO] Eagle Eye (but has Stoic Watchman) - Hero B [EXPERT] Eagle Eye
-2                       -                        -7
                   -Conclusion-
         Hero A looses -5 mana each round


I could see this being used as a very good defensive strategy, to drain from opponents before assaulting with main hero.

Eagle Eye + Blind OOHH BABY



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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted March 19, 2017 09:12 PM

Hmm I would like to keep the idea of Eagle Eye, but make it as good as possible. Unfortunately the only thing that CAN be changed is the succesrate and even at 100% it's a bad skill. But by changing the code there might be other ways of improving it, like having it learn level 5 spells, having AI utilizing ALL spells (this can easily be done by changing AI Values, except for the 6 spells AI will NEVER cast) having it learn spells from creatures and combo artifacts and getting the chance of learning a spell for every turn of combat and having the new spell show up in the spellbook immediately.
If the chance should be 100% at all levels, we need the 3 Eagle Eye artifacts replaced with new artifacts of same tiers and we need new specials for 7 heroes. But with all the above changes 70% at all levels would be good imo, so that we can keep the artifacts and specialities and be as true to the original idea as possible.

No offense but what does "mana drain" have to do with anything?, so it's like a reverse mysticism?
No Eagle Eye is a skill which mainly is intended for Witches, which makes sence since Fortress has a hard time learning spells.    

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Hourglass
Hourglass


Hired Hero
posted March 19, 2017 10:30 PM

phoenix4ever said:
3 Eagle Eye artifacts replaced with new artifacts of same tiers and we need new specials for 7 heroes. But with all the above changes 70% at all levels would be good imo, so that we can keep the artifacts and specialities and be as true to the original idea as possible.



100% success rate and lvl 5 is not enough.

Level 5 spells don't add anything special to you, just elemental summoning and implosion, but you don't need those spells. If you could learn fly and/or DD, it would be a lot better, but since you can,t lvl 5 doesn't bring anything to the table. There aren't that many must have spells and Eagle Eye just doesn't offer a reliable way of learning them, even if the success rate was set to 100%.
I have listed more reasons why eagle eye is bad in my post in the 1st page, go check that out if you're not convinced yet.

Even adding way to learn spells from creatures would not justify picking Eagle Eye. Learning Bloodlust from Ogre Magi is not value in my books.

I'm suggesting the removal of this skill because I don't see a way of buffing it to a state where:

a) I would consider to pick it sometimes.
b) The skill would still be recognized as even somewhat classic Eagle Eye. If other kind of features would be added, I think the skill should renamed and replaced.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted March 19, 2017 10:44 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 22:51, 19 Mar 2017.

Hourglass said:
Learning Bloodlust from Ogre Magi is not value in my books.

Maybe Bloodlust from Ogre Magi is'nt that important, but how about the 17 spells from Master Genies? I'm guessing Serena the Wizard would become a lot more popular if she could learn all those spells from her genies.
Enchanters and Fairie Dragons would also be good for teaching spells and Conflux could learn the 4 Protection spells, so they can protect their non-reviveable elementals. You could even learn Resurrection from Arch Angels.

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homerofgods
homerofgods

Tavern Dweller
posted March 20, 2017 12:19 AM

- Feature suggestion: Artifacts and elements on the map that gives you more TIME. Just as Stable gives you more movement you could have something that gave you +1 min. This is of course meaningless when you don't play with time, but I can see it as a cool feature in tournaments. Also you could have the ability to transfer/trade time to allies. Or team-based time.

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skaniol
skaniol

Tavern Dweller
posted March 20, 2017 12:25 AM

As much as I would like to see a skill like Mana Drain, we have to think about the bigger picture too. MD in the form you suggest would be yet another anti-magic skill. Do we really need more nerfs to the magic heroes? If Eagle Eye is to be improved or replaced, IMO it should be a skill that benefits magic.

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Erathianer
Erathianer


Hired Hero
posted March 20, 2017 05:06 PM

Mysticism could negate the mana drain from eagle eye.

Also i think eagle eye should not be changed to a skill you want to pick everytime as a mage. it is a specific skill if you want to play like that.

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