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valkyrica
Supreme Hero
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posted January 19, 2004 03:54 PM |
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Jinxer,
in order to avoid some 40 more posts about what you think is game ruining, read what equilibris changed so far, and then you are allowed to rant away 
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted January 19, 2004 09:46 PM |
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Valky be quiet. I am allowed to debate the issues here just like everyone else.
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balcough_dra...
Supreme Hero
unlucky? i want to pump you up
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posted January 19, 2004 10:38 PM |
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but valkys a little right
you didn't know about necro was changed to level 20 to raise vamps
read the readme
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slayer
whos your daddy and what does he do?
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Dalai
Hired Hero
Equilibris Project Coordinator
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posted January 20, 2004 04:00 PM |
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2 insatiable
Quote:
Resurrection is probably ok as is.
yes.
doomed to be disabled for eternity
Can you please be more specific? Too strong? Too weak?
2 the_teacher
Thank you very much for the last post. I am ready to sign it What I experienced myself or saw the other people's games totally affirms what you said.
2 Blue_Camel
Quote:
even after adjusting, i think should be enabled only in some maps.. maps full of creatures, it might still dominate
... just as diplomacy, charm and stealth.
About summoning
The longer the game and/or the less neutral creatures - the more desirable the skill.
But still I think, that level 4 creatures are too much - you can have GM summoning on lvl 10 even without some extra powerups.
Here are the numbers and creatures for a summoner adv.class without druid's chain. All WEEKLY growth.
Lvl 2 Basic: 19 lepr, 15 wolves, 13 sprites.
Lvl 3 Advanced: 31 lepr, 24 wolves, 21 sprites.
Lvl 5 Expert: 49 lepr, 38 wolves, 34 sprites, 8 elfs, 8 satyrs, 6 tigers.
Lvl 6 Master: 66 lepr, 51 wolves, 46 sprites, 10 elfs, 11 satyrs, 8 tigers, 7 earth, 6 air, 6 fire, 5 water.
Lvl 10 GM: 122 lepr, 95 wolves, 85 sprites, 19 elfs, 21 satyrs, 16 tigers, 13 earth, 11 air, 11 fire, 9 water, 8 wasp, 7 uni, 5 grif.
Lvl 20 GM: 200 lepr, 155 wolves, 140 sprites, 32 elfs, 35 satyrs, 26 tigers, 21 earth, 18 air, 19 fire, 15 water, 13 wasp, 11 uni, 9 grif.
What do you think? Is it too much or too little? May be, the growth is too fast or too slow? Any comments, suggestions are welcome.
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[url=http://equilibris.celestialheavens.com]Equilibris project[/url]
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Blue_Camel
Famous Hero
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posted January 20, 2004 07:47 PM |
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You can't judge the power of summoning JUST by how much the creature growth is.. just think , I have a L10 druid.. would I rather have GM summoning + Exp nature or would I rather not get any levels in summoning and have GM nature magic? 10 air elementals /week is not enough to make me take GM summoning + exp nature instead of GM nature. Which would you rather have, 20 extra air elementals at the start of fight, or the ability to summon 3-4 mantises a turn?
I think summoning skill should be strengthened by +33%, maybe more.
and Insatiable meant , by what he said, that Resurrection is too weak, of course.
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insatiable
Supreme Hero
Ultimate N00bidity
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posted January 20, 2004 08:10 PM |
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summoning
that looks perfect to me
rate and numbers are definetely fair+
4th skills are suppose to be side-help anyway, right?
so shouldnt be necromancy-like powerful
ressurection
vs neutral, not only a useless skill but possibly a harmful too! cause you lose the 2week stable.. i would sacrifice an angel not to lose that
vs human, gives life a confident attack.. even if both lose all troops, and opponent retreats, you get half your troops back and keep running towards his town. In defence situations, where oppnent retreat ofcourse, benefit is obvious.. resurrected critts + town one, give you an able army once more
Now. As i see it, we can do nothing to save skill vs neutral and as for vs human benefit, it applies in few occasions..
.. hard as it is making a good life hero, doubt you d want to 'spend' on ressurection.
then again, i guess aim is to make 4th skills at least decent.. im getting confused. fullstop
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the_teacher
Supreme Hero
Talk to the hand!
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posted January 20, 2004 08:17 PM |
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ratty try retreating and see if you get any troops resurrected, resurrection fine as it is, stops barbarian hit'n'runs. besides, don't take it, nobody's forcing you.
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insatiable
Supreme Hero
Ultimate N00bidity
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posted January 20, 2004 08:20 PM |
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you re out of ink?
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the_teacher
Supreme Hero
Talk to the hand!
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posted January 20, 2004 10:41 PM |
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Quote:
You can't judge the power of summoning JUST by how much the creature growth is.. just think , I have a L10 druid.. would I rather have GM summoning + Exp nature or would I rather not get any levels in summoning and have GM nature magic? 10 air elementals /week is not enough to make me take GM summoning + exp nature instead of GM nature. Which would you rather have, 20 extra air elementals at the start of fight, or the ability to summon 3-4 mantises a turn?
I think summoning skill should be strengthened by +33%, maybe more.
and Insatiable meant , by what he said, that Resurrection is too weak, of course.
3 mantises over level 15 ,first of all
4 mantises over level 25
20 air at level 10 at the start of fight - never
the summoning looks better now , the menu must work properly and it will be ok, but if camel insists a 10% stonger will be more than enough
have a nice day
edit : ahh, and try to make druid chain 5 times stronger and become a minor (suggestion) to be of some use
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Blue_Camel
Famous Hero
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posted January 20, 2004 10:54 PM |
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"20 air at level 10 at the start of fight - never"
I meant you get the 20 air from ~2 weeks worth of GM summoning.. not from casting spell
and yes , would be nice if druid's chain + ankh of life + necklace of charm could all be made more powerful
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Arangar
Famous Hero
Weak ranger - lost viking
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posted January 21, 2004 01:05 AM |
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teaching the teacher of teachers
Quote:
you re out of ink?
Lmao, quite funny indeed 
Arangar
-'Sometimes, friend, what is begun proves too powerful to contain.'
-'Such is the curse of success.'
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Dalai
Hired Hero
Equilibris Project Coordinator
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posted January 30, 2004 05:37 PM |
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Edited By: Dalai on 30 Jan 2004
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Hi all.
Summoning:
Druid's Chain will give the same advantage as Summoner adv. class. On GM summoning any of this will give about 25% boost to summoning. On Basic - more than double
One problem is being discussed on Heroic Corner, that is disturbing me very much. It is alleged great disbalance between order and chaos in v3.3.
I want to hear those of you who played at least several games order-vs-chaos against even opponent. Is it truth? à so, what could be done?
Surely, I have some plans for 3.4, but I'm afraid they may be inadequate.
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[url=http://equilibris.celestialheavens.com]Equilibris project[/url]
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valkyrica
Supreme Hero
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posted January 30, 2004 08:11 PM |
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Dalai, can you be more specific about the imbalances ? because i can't see no sure winner from those 2!
Order is special, its spells allow it to kill troops others normally wouldn't, but there was nothing mod did to unbalance the spells or troops in any way.
But they may know something we don't
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Blue_Camel
Famous Hero
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posted January 30, 2004 11:39 PM |
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yes, i too wonder.. which town are they saying is better?
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insatiable
Supreme Hero
Ultimate N00bidity
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posted January 31, 2004 07:40 AM |
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well.. on conquest of 4 lake or any other superopen h4 map from the 80's, with lev1 guards 2 tiles away from the guardee'
.. chaos is stronger then
on decent+ maps though, hard to say something
*maybe those guys that said that, been playing 'confrontation' or 'way of warrior' or sumthin
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Tc_Fear
Famous Hero
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posted January 31, 2004 04:35 PM |
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dalai
when this file will be available again :
"updates.h4r - 12826516 bytes. This resource file is needed to install Equilibris on Standard unpatched Heroes without TGS or WoW. Instructions - in FAQ section.
Sorry. Temprarily unavailable. Use patched Heroes versions."
?
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insatiable
Supreme Hero
Ultimate N00bidity
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posted January 31, 2004 07:05 PM |
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i think this patch is no longer needed TC.. says it somewhere.. i done it long ago, dun remember excact steps
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Dalai
Hired Hero
Equilibris Project Coordinator
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posted February 01, 2004 03:58 PM |
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Well, I was intentoinally not very specific to see if there is one clear winner.
Ok, details:
One guy (1) told me the story of his games against one and the same opponent (2). 1 actually taught 2 to play heroes, so if he plays as good as he can, 1 can always beat 2. And now they played map (Labirinth, or smth like that, anti-thief map, as he said) and player 2 played chaos. He was fast enough to take some arties from 1's territory, and when they finally met with their main armies - order could not beat chaos.
Reasons (after 1's words):
- more spells have "line of sight" prerequisite (2 BDs and archer were in front row)
- Genies got weaker and slower
Result of that battle - 1 archer left. When 1 replayed the battle for chaos he could beat Order without casualties at all.
I know that 1 (Order) was really unlucky with magic that time - he had no dispel, cancel (chaos had), displacement, teleport.
But the overall conclusion 1 made - order changes tone it down, and chaos changes tone it up. So now chaos is the clear winner in this pair.
I found a lot of arguments why he should not judge the changes from one game only. But then one strong TOH player stepped in and supported the point of view, that chaos is stronger than order in most cases in 3.3. He added though that this disbalance was present even before Equilibris.
2 TC-Fear
This file is not available due to our hosting restrictions. Now we applied for strategyplanet hosting. If we get it - we will upload the file.
But if you have version 2.0 or higher (I think you do) - you don't need that file. It should already be there - in Data folder.
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[url=http://equilibris.celestialheavens.com]Equilibris project[/url]
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Blue_Camel
Famous Hero
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posted February 01, 2004 05:20 PM |
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Quote:
found a lot of arguments why he should not judge the changes from one game only. But then one strong TOH player stepped in and supported the point of view, that chaos is stronger than order in most cases in 3.3. He added though that this disbalance was present even before Equilibris.
depends, depends, depends on map and spells.
i know chaos is faster, but i think on maps like IP, order can win most of the time, if players are equal in skill. also depends a lot on choices.. titans have emerged in 3.3 as a very good choice for order.. (last two games i've played involving order, titans have been the better choice than golems). Titans have chaos ward, and if you are lucky enough to get david's sling or sniper's crossbow (which are both quite common) then the titans can really be stronger than the opponent's blacks (i found this out in game vs. insatiable.. i had a better tactician than him but his titans with david's sling crushed my blackies.. and we had proportionally about same amount of L4s.)
but i am no expert at this game.. we have yet to hear from the masters.. let them speak
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balcough_dra...
Supreme Hero
unlucky? i want to pump you up
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posted February 01, 2004 08:27 PM |
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all choas needs then is the ring of lesser neg. and could of confusion
____________
slayer
whos your daddy and what does he do?
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This thread is pages long: 
