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| Thread: Does Any One Care About the Red Stars |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Incubus
Disgraceful
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 01, 2001 10:05 PM |
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Quote:
Incubus' style of writing is short-quick-&-informative.
Hmm maybe the smallest post in on my name.. but also the largest...
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LadyLily
Known Hero
The Iron Maiden
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posted August 01, 2001 11:45 PM |
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Very long train of thought that may not flow correctly:
Incubus, your name was just somethign random. It came first becuase you post a lot and know you from that. And I actually believe that Incubus hasn't been here that long. I can remember when he was new. I came into here before him but don't have the post counts to prove it.
Second of all, it seems that the more and more we fight/talk about this red star system, the more I hate it. I personally hate matters that are based on people's opinions. Why? Everyone is baised, whether they like it or not. If you don't think so, think about thwat you believe in. Could be political. How you were raised and what your parents think are included in that bias everyone has. Doesn't matter who, where you came from, or "what" (in more terms of the avatars on this community than anything else), it just matters that you have an opinion. Can the moderators be fair? Maybe they think they can, and maybe they don't. Maybe they hate some of us, and of course they won't like some of their posts. Opinion can rarely ever be a true judge, but that is how the world works.
And just becuase I don't like the star system and don't have any quliaty points don't go hand-in-hand. It may seem that I have motive,s but I don't. Also I find that I don't necesarily find a lot of inspiring stuff I am expecting to find in the quality posters. What are we suppose to be seeing int hese posts? We are kids! Well, most of us are teenagers, and some are a little older. But still, we ain't too, too smart. So what do you expect us to write?
Finally, I feel like I've started a fight. Yeah, I'm playing both sides. It just seems to me taht I have a strong opinion on this matter. I want this new star system to stay...but I just don't like it the way it is run now? And how can the moderators look at every single post and decide on whether to put up a quality point for that poster? Seems like an awefully big job to me.....
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-LadyLily
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Shae_Trielle
Honorable
Famous Hero
of Heroes
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posted August 02, 2001 01:21 AM |
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A spoken mind
It's good to see people expressing opinions, however favourable about the way our Community works.
Lil, I like what you wrote, I find myself agreeing with some of what you said. I too remember when Incubus was a newbie, it wasn't all that long after I came here. Lil, according to the memberlist, you came here four days before he did.
The red stars HAVE lifted the quality of posts, it's working slowly but surely. Where once upon a time, I used to see a lot of one-lining, I am now seeing longer, more thought out responses. The moderators have done a great job in shifting the focus away from the yellow stars.
As a community of people, I find that human biases are unavoidable. I honestly like to see the human side of the moderators, I like to see them get a little dirty sometimes, although I know that this is not allowed for them. But for judging the quality of posts, then you can't just bring in a jock who plays Empires and expect him/her to be objective about our community and our posting either. He has no idea about our little net niche that we've got and it sure as hell would take him forever to read all 12000 posts anyways. The moderators have been here since day one (at least most of them), and I think they go above and beyond what they should to make this place what it is. They're here every damn day, the go through probably all of the new posts and no doubt spend a lot of time arguing over what post deserves what rating.
If you look a little deeper, Lil, go back into a few of the earlier posts, I reckon you'll find some pretty good stuff. And I'm not sure if most of us are kids or teenagers, I find that an awful lot of older people come here. There seems to be a great percentage of Heroes players who are between 25-35 age bracket and a lot of them post here too. Some people treat it just for fun, to have a laugh, other people treat it a bit more seriously and some people abuse it by filling up screen space, (like I'm doing now!).
Anyway, I would still like to see a 'Crap post' star system, where people get voted on their crap posts and earn points that way. I'm not sure how far we're going to go with the stars, but if you're going to have awards for good posts, then why not for bad ones? I think that might be pretty interesting, don't you?
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Incubus
Disgraceful
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 02, 2001 01:39 AM |
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Again my name..
You can't without me can you?
And what does it care if she came first. i don't ...... care.....
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LadyLily
Known Hero
The Iron Maiden
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posted August 02, 2001 02:21 AM |
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The Crap Posts
Hmm...crap point "quality" stars? Ha ha, sounds interesting. But that sure woudl take out all the problems with the quliaty points, huh? Maybe a green star instead of a red one.
About the moderator thing....I know they bust their backs doing this for us. THANK YOU!!! Yeah, easy on the caps, I know. But I was also seeing how some moderators do this forum and so forth. We all know that. So how exactly do they do this? Do they all chat and talk about the quality posters? Or do they just look at their forum, never talk, and just add a quality point just becuase someone did a good few posts in their forum? More light on the subject could be needed.
We don't know if the moderators don't like someone. They keep their cool, I know. They seem to be all sweet and stuff....Who knows? After they decided taht someone doesn't have good, quality posts, do they stop looking at that person's posts seriously?
So many flaws, a good system...In a way it does matter if one person does or does not care about the red stars. Why? They may not read that person' posts at all, and repeat what the person with low quality points just said. Yeah, I'm going to the extreme, but it coudl happen, and that's all that really matters. If people keep repeating and repeating...coudln't we have somethign we really don't want to see?
Well, sorry for breaking down this subject so much, I'm getting a little carried away. We learn from our mistakes, don't we? Even if the red star system isn't a mistake, we can still use this knowledge for the future. Hey, Angelspit, you still reading this?
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-LadyLily
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angelspit
Famous Hero
Warrior of the Heavens
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posted August 02, 2001 04:40 AM |
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Yes, I am right behind your shoulder. 
I can't talk for the rest of the staff, but the way I navigate on this board is completely chaotic. I move from one thread to another either using Recent Post or by selecting a particular forum; then I select a couple of threads that look interesting (or problematic, since I'm a moderator) based on the titles and leave the others for later. Being responsible for the two largest forums (with help from Rogue and Val, thank you!), it is obvious I cannot read everything. But I'm becoming quite good at spotting posts that stands apart, that are the highlights of a given discussion, that just goes "tada, he/she just said the right thing we were looking for!"
It is obvious that great posts will go unnoticed, lost at the end of an unpopular thread. Some insults or rule infrigements might go unpunished too. That's just life I guess. I agree with Shae that we saw more quality posts recently. People take more time to think and write, there are less meaningless "one-liners", some threads were among the most interesting I ever saw.
Still, I think this thread should go on for a while. Interesting points are being brought up. I just wish the title was not "Does anyone care..." but something like "We care about the Red Star System". 
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Sha_Men
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jack-Of-No-Trades
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posted August 02, 2001 07:40 AM |
bonus applied. |
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OK..here it goes...
Now that I have chance to ask you Angelspit (our dear moderator) a question I would like to hear:
Why I lost one quality point from my second post in this thread?
How it was wrongly made?
Why I got it back?
The problem with this current system is that it's mystery to most and kinda blur to rest. Posters don't know what to do to really get the stars and because we don't have thread where all quality posts are so they can be find easily how one can know how to get quality points? Of course, it shouldn't be the meaning of this board to get quality points but if we look how many people are interested about system, we should give them a way to go so they could stop guessing how the system goes.
Sooner or later there are going to be some kind of flamewar from those red stars as there is somekind of debate about yellow stars. If people won't know where one got his reputation of quality poster how he can be respected? It doesn't really help if you say them that moderators gave it to him/her because this will end up that one is being blamed as some kind of favorite or ruler of board...
I care...
About this red star system,
not the stars though...
I mean that I don't really give flying **** about those stars. But I care about this system because it affects the whole board somehow. I personally have pretty impressive post count if we look that I happened to register in July 8th. I have post over 250 messages in a month. For me that's huge and never been posting to any other message board this amount of stuff. I have tried to post as much as I can and give my opinions to many discussion some fruitful some not. I can say that most of my posts are totally useless if we look at one post at a time but my posts have been maybe "a link" to new posts. No, I'm not better poster than others but we know that thread are like chains they are not only invidual messages put into same place but really hard-to-break chain.
This current redstarsystem gives points only to invidual messages or messages in single thread. Ladylily spoke about small messages. Some of them are important. They may lead into deep discussion but only those that wrote long messages or "perfect" posts get the quality points. So basically one that started the thread with small message or continued it with small great message doesn't get quality point because his/her messages aren't long enough. What a shame. Take a look system that I created on this thread page number 2. It gives points also those "good" posts that are maybe small but important. So quality point could come from more that one message from different threads and not from only one thread. Example: If somebody has readed Altar of Wishes and Maximanes some of the posts...Why he has only one quality point? I got one when I agreed with him in thread called "the game, and...." basically from the start of this discussion and from two other posts he made into that thread I would have give him at least one quality point. No offence to moderators though I understand your job is hard and heavy...
And there are posters like me annoying you...
You hate your job, don't you?
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Catch the vigorous horse of your mind.
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arachnid
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted August 02, 2001 02:49 PM |
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Im in total agreement with most of the latter comments of sha_men its seems to me alot of great ideas come from max and oldtimer (the gits!  ) and yet the dont seem to have the red stars to show for them.
On a different note looks like i cant be very objective about the community..........
"But for judging the quality of posts, then you can't just bring in a jock who plays Empires and expect him/her to be objective about our community and our posting either."
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angelspit
Famous Hero
Warrior of the Heavens
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posted August 02, 2001 04:21 PM |
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A few answers and thoughts
Quote:
Why I lost one quality point from my second post in this thread? How it was wrongly made? Why I got it back?
It was an error. I was the first to notice that and reported the problem to Valeriy. We could not find why a penalty was awarded to this particular post, and chose to cancel the penalty, since it was pointless.
Quote:
Sooner or later there are going to be some kind of flamewar from those red stars as there is somekind of debate about yellow stars.
While it is true that there has been some debate about the purpose of yellow stars, I don't expect any *war* about red stars to start any time soon. We would disable the Red Stars completely long before such a thing happened.
I read your alternate plan with interest. However, it would require us to rate every single post made on the board, if I understand it correctly. Unfortunately, we don't have time for that. We prefer to focus on the extremes (both good and bad).
I think this system is still better than what is being done on the 3DO Community, where only nerds who log on every day can ever hope to reach the highler levels, and worse yet, use the more convenient tools of the boards (like inserting links in a message, for instance). Don't you agree that the Red Star system, even if it is new and has flaws, is ages ahead of that?
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Sha_Men
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jack-Of-No-Trades
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posted August 02, 2001 06:12 PM |
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Surely...
Thanks for clearing that lost quality point issue for me. I appreciate it as I have worried since about it. I was sure I was going to lose some more. I didn't want to say anything as I was afraid people would notice that I care about my quality points really despite I say something else...
(Yeah, sure...)
The system...
We cannot even compare the system used in 3do community to one used in here. This is far better than that one. However I wanna clear that in system I introduced earlier not all posts are rated but when poster gets quality point there is said why he got it. And one of those post grades are put into place where there is now "bonus applied". It could be said like "good post bonus" or "bad post penalty". So not all are graded...Also those who are always friendly towards others (there are some if you have noticed, not me!) would get this kinda bonus also like "average post bonus" so even people who write only average messages would get eventually some quality points if they behave in good way that encourages other people too. Also those who make only small messages could get quality points through good posts and not only by making truly great post.
Complaints...
However I stop my "complaints" now about this current system. You, moderators here are doing great job and I just wish this all talk around stars would stay calm. Maybe everybody here understands that those stars don't really matter so much, maybe little, but not much for those who have started to know different people here and respect some of here.
At least I hope...
And now let's change the subject...at least I will...
(Possibly one will tell again that I'm Jerry Springer and I must come back to claim that I'm not)
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Catch the vigorous horse of your mind.
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arachnid
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted August 02, 2001 06:31 PM |
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Claim your not all you want i know the truth!
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Shae_Trielle
Honorable
Famous Hero
of Heroes
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posted August 02, 2001 11:18 PM |
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Shamen
I think you of all seem to care most about the red star system even though you claim not to. You have a great deal of input into red stars whenever they are mentioned and you did seem very concerned when a whole thread was made about you losing your red star. I think it kinda made you take a step back and say, 'well if it's going to be like THAT, then I shouldn't really bother...'
I don't think the moderators apply bonuses on merit of the length of the post. To me, that seems silly. It's actually to our detriment that we write such long posts because our english isn't good enough to make our points concise enough to fit in two paragraphs, so instead, we take up a six thousand word essay to explain ourselves.
I've seen two of my posts that have had bonuses applied, both very obscure posts in great, but now forgotten threads. I don't mean to sound big headed, but I saw straight away why I got them (I wrote these posts long before red stars were invented chappy, LOL). Others that I have seen I have agreed with straight away. The moderators tend to pick out the top 2% of posts very well and I don't think they should have to explain anything at all. Read the post, it should explain it for you. If you can't see that, then you're missing out on some good writing.
*smile*
PS: I think the whole board would be packed with red stars if they started giving out average star bonuses don't you?
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Sha_Men
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jack-Of-No-Trades
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posted August 03, 2001 04:22 AM |
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As it stands now I can't comment...
Because what you said made me kinda out of balance.
Did you really suggest I really care about my quality points???
First of all one who made the post about me losing quality point was Incubus (yes, he again) but if the thread of the name is Shaman how you can ignore it?
Why I have posted about this whole red star system?
It's all because I have started to care about this board and if something is going to affect it I would like to be part of it. That's the whole point of mine when I posted that my system. It was only suggestion. So now you can forget it and we can come back to planet earth.
But don't ever come to say to me that I don't understand the value of those posts being nominated. I have read (I think) all the quality posts and I agree with you. They deserve them. I just made a point that there are posters that necessarily don't get out that one great message but many good ones and these guys don't get so many quality points as they could maybe deserve.
And about those average posts...It was only suggestion that some of people here that are nice and friendly would maybe get one or two quality points. That isn't really big issue.
Now something else. Or another windmill as Unkahaakon would say...
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Catch the vigorous horse of your mind.
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Ichon
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted August 03, 2001 04:23 AM |
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How to tell which posts were the quality ones?
Well, I have been posting here alot this week because I am at work and seems I can't turn to the computer without checking this board once an hour or so- but most of my posts are typed quickly and without mcuh thought so then I see I got a quality point or whatever. I guess that's nice, but really I think the posts I have written that were most interesting were long ago. So you said the posts you wrote that were so qualified were obscure long ago ones... how do you know which posts were so judged? I'm just curious to know what made something of mine top 2% in some moderators opinion. I mostly enjoy to debate on this board or discuss tactics, but that usually turns into a debate if someone says something I think is incorrect or misworded so probably I'm not getting any friendly points which I don't mind, I play Toh and H3 online to mess with people and beat them and their best strategies anyway so I am not very concerned about winning nicely, a win is a win, though cheating is not really winning since you aren't playing the same game. I'd rather have people to play so I am not outrightly rude just as a matter of self-interest(and also it takes effort to be rude, why not just be polite and go the lazy/easy way), but really I don't prefer to play those chatty types since I usually get distracted and can't focus on whatever else I am doing in between tursn if they are always chatting. If my opponent doesn't say anything except his ToH handle, map to be played and color- then nicely fought game at the end, I am happy. No other words are needed or wanted usually.
Speaking of which Shae; why always that *smile* at the end of every post even when you are being derogatory or malicious? I find myself wanting to say something to get rid of the damn grin even if I agreed with what you said... just curious.
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Shae_Trielle
Honorable
Famous Hero
of Heroes
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posted August 03, 2001 10:21 AM |
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My smile
Hell Ichon, this stuff isn't really life or death is it? And even though I agree, sometimes I do get derogatory and malicious, it's still just a discussion forum and we shouldn't take eveything to heart.
So I *smile* just to let everyone know that I'm nice and relaxed, I'm not here to start a world war and it's always nice to go out on a good note. It's kinda become my signature I guess, because despite some of the things I say in my posts, I try to be a nice person. Hell if you can't smile, then what on Earth can you do?
When I'm honestly angry or I am trying to make a point that has a lot of significance for me personally, I will usually not smile at all, sign with my nick or with my ToH handle. When there's no smile, you can be sure that I'm frowning in real life.
And besides, my smile is the best part of my whole body!
*SMILE*
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angelspit
Famous Hero
Warrior of the Heavens
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posted August 03, 2001 02:17 PM |
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Quote:
How to tell which posts were the quality ones
Easy. A Bonus applied or Penalty applied mention is displayed at the top of the post.
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Ichon
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted August 03, 2001 05:17 PM |
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Thanks Angel...
Well, I guess I will never know then. I don't want to look back through all the posts I have ever written trying to find the one which is quality, I hoped there was an easier way, but so be it.
Yeah, I thought it was something like that Shae; just like some carnivores in nature have very big lips to hide their even larger teeth.
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Sha_Men
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jack-Of-No-Trades
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posted August 03, 2001 05:28 PM |
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You know...
Ichon...
Now this is fourth time (if I remember correct) that I suggest thread where all the quality posts are. Moderator could start it or some poster who would maybe gain even one quality point just because he has nerve to dig those all quality posts up there from the dust.
But problem here it is that some of the moderators didn't like the idea of quality thread as there would be only attacks towards those posts. I think there could be way to prevent this by asking not to comment any quality posts critical. One could gain penalty if would attack towards some of the quality posts by saying that they didn't deserve quality points.
Just a thought...
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Catch the vigorous horse of your mind.
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Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
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posted August 04, 2001 12:13 AM |
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Very interesting thread. I enjoy reading your ideas about the system. Just given out two red stars in this thread and two of the members now have a third red star and a rank prefix. The quality count required to get the first red star has been lowered to 3.
The idea of the pentalty stars or "bad" stars.
I think this should be avoided because some people like stars so much that they might not care which stars to aim for, and try to get the largest possible amount of those bad stars without being banned, and make a group thing out of it. That is why red stars are lost instead.
I'm integrating some interesting Heroes Community features into Age of Heroes United. Age of Heroes United is a new version of Age of Heroes that will deal with HOMM4 and will be very closely related with Heroes Community and Tournament of Honor. It is not open to the public because not all features are done yet, so I'd like to discuss the HC features at AOH United.
HC Top Members page
* shows how many members of each rank are there at Heroes Community. You will be surprised how few have actually made 10 posts or more. Also shows how many idle members there are who made no posts.
* shows the top 20 members by post counts. for each member 1-20 there is username, rank, post count, quality count.
* shows the top 20 members by quality counts. for each member 1-20 there is username, rank, quality count, post count.
* all in real time of course.
HC Top Threads
* shows the 20 most replied threads
* shows the 20 most viewed threads
HC Rated Threads
* Shows the last 20 threads rated inspiring
* Shows the last 20 threads rated important
* not sure whether it should have the interesting 20
HC Quality Posts
* Shows the last 20 threads where a quality point was given
(this links to a thread, not post)
Added to all that, Age of Heroes United will feature a little window on the page that will scroll the latest 20 threads from Heroes Community.
Thoughts/comments/ideas?
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Shae_Trielle
Honorable
Famous Hero
of Heroes
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posted August 04, 2001 01:08 PM |
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Val
I only ever come here, ToH or Zone. So could you please explain what Age of Heroes is? Is it a site? What kind of site is it?
*smile*
PS: Yes, Ichon, you have Tyrannosaurus Shae down to a tee. I also heard that there are certain military enthusiasts around who like carrying really big guns in order to compensate for really small... bullets?
LOL yes I heard about the guy who said that he was a hollowpoint. I just took one look and knew straight away that he was nothing but buckshot....
*smile*
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