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Conan
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 15, 2005 04:18 PM |
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Conan the two faced socialist
Hi,
I've been keeping an eye on this thread to see where it would go, but could never find the opportune time to post.
I'm taking a Masters degree is social work and I used to hate it because of all the social crap, until I found out that my values where actually socialist in the end... now, even though I don't want to become a social worker anymore, I tend to want to finish my degree to learn more about the socialist ideology because it's so much in tune with mine.
And recently in "nation states", I found out that I really think socialism is the way to go to give real freedom to the people and to stop their oppression.
But....
There is a problem with me, because even though I think that way, I act in totally another. I have multiple examples of this:
1) Like I said, I decided not to become a social worker because of the pay. I have student loans and debts that have to be paid and a 35,000$ job won't cut it. So here I am at the House of Commons raking in the bigger bugs with more chances of advancement. So in the end, I'm in it for the money.
2) Everything I do revolves around money. House, interest rates, you name it. But I cannot find the courage to act on my ideologies. For me, it is more important to raise my daughter in a good home, not an appartment with plenty of toys for her proper development.
I'm not a bad person, I just don't act the way I think. I'm 2 faced. What to do? The consequences of raising a child in a lesser environment are just not what I am willing to do. I guess I cannot think of only myself here, I have a family to look after and I must do what is best for them, not for society.... does that make sense?
So many questions, so little answers. 
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terje_the_ma...
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Disciple of Herodotus
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posted March 15, 2005 09:58 PM |
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Svarog:
Quote:
Quote:
Speaking of American anarchists, did you know that ever since the Haymarket Processes in the late 1800s, the US has had a law prohibiting anyone who calls themselves "Anarchist" entry to the country?
I remember very recently some American teenage girl declared as anarchist and the govs gave her crap about it, but i cant recall what exactly it was all about.
It was a segment of Bowling For Columbine about a girl who wanted to make an Anarchist Club at her school, but wasn't allowed to. Could that be it?
Conan:
All I've got for you is this (since I'm not too experienced or wise, I just throw Marx quotes around all the time  ):
Money is the alienated essence of Man's life and labour, and this essence dominates him as he worships it.
It's all a part of the Capitalist society, and before the revolution, it's imo just to bite your teeth together, and go with the flow, if that's your only opportunity to support your child. After all, this problem of your is the basic problem that Marx described, isn't it? 
(In political science - that is, the welfare state branch of pol.sci. - this is called "commodification". People are made into commodities by Capitalism, since the only way they can support themselves and their family is to sell their labour to the Capitalists... The ulitmate goal of socialism, must be to de-commodificate the proletariat - and everyone else, for that matter.)
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"Sometimes I think everyone's just pretending to be brave, and none of us really are. Maybe pretending to be brave is how you get brave, I don't know."
- Grenn, A Storm of Swords.
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The_Workers
Hired Hero
Red Menace of HC
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posted March 15, 2005 10:57 PM |
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Quote:
It's all a part of the Capitalist society, and before the revolution,
Hey, stop talking about the Revolution, you pathetic poser!
Feeble social democrat talking about the Revolution... Yeah, right!
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Workers Of All Countries, Unite! 
...the ruling ideas are the rulers' ideas...
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted March 16, 2005 12:40 AM |
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Ah Conan, a man's gotta do what a mans gotta do. Its good you want to help to the world, but its more important not to waste yourself in the process. What we need are healthy socialists afterall. Act socialist in any way you can, as much as you can, just not too much. (i use every opportunity I have to spread the word, and I consider this my contribution to my ideology. plus my lousy vote, which is occassionally put on internet auctions. ) Bringing up that cutie of urs is probably the most socialist thing you can do at the moment. 
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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Conan
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 16, 2005 02:39 AM |
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Edited By: Conan on 15 Mar 2005
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thanks for the inputs.
terje,
I knew you'd have seen this in pol. sci. and it makes me feel better to know that I'm not the only socialist around with that problem. What you wrote really made me think and realize that de-comodification is really a good goal. Thanks for the interesting concept.
Svarog,
I guess you are right, if I raise 2 socialists, I've just spread the word even more and made a slight difference.
I find it interesting to be part of this thread as most of the people you guys talk about are people I've never even heard of and I gotta go look some up on google.
In Canada, a good socialist, yet disguised as a liberal was Pierre Elliot Trudeau. One, if not the best, PM we've ever had.
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Your life as it has been is over. From this time forward, you will service.... us. - Star Trek TNG
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Shiva
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted March 16, 2005 02:46 AM |
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Quote:
Ah Conan, a man's gotta do what a mans gotta do. Its good you want to help to the world, but its more important not to waste yourself in the process. What we need are healthy socialists afterall. Act socialist in any way you can, as much as you can, just not too much. (i use every opportunity I have to spread the word, and I consider this my contribution to my ideology. plus my lousy vote, which is occassionally put on internet auctions. ) Bringing up that cutie of urs is probably the most socialist thing you can do at the moment.
At least there is some practicality in the socialists
dream world ...gawd, I have to agree with you
for maybe only the second time ever..
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Marelt_Ekiran
Promising
Famous Hero
Watcher of All
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posted March 16, 2005 03:25 AM |
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Quote:
In Canada, a good socialist, yet disguised as a liberal was Pierre Elliot Trudeau. One, if not the best, PM we've ever had.
May I just gently remind you that in order to be socialist, he crippled an entire province. It's easy to look benevolent on the front if you just plunder your back country.
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Perception is everything.
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Conan
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 16, 2005 03:30 AM |
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Edited By: Conan on 16 Mar 2005
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Quote:
May I just gently remind you that in order to be socialist, he crippled an entire province. It's easy to look benevolent on the front if you just plunder your back country.
Please explain. If you are reffering to Québec, consider the fact that Canada has now 2 official languages because of Trudeau and that in itself is more than enough recognition of a single french province.
If you think crippling a province means not seperating them from the rest of Canada, I am not agreeing with you. The fact that Québec is crippled is because they take all their money to fundraise seperation instead of working on their roads and infrastructure.
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Your life as it has been is over. From this time forward, you will service.... us. - Star Trek TNG
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Shiva
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted March 16, 2005 05:32 AM |
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I don't see any crippled province..except maybe Newfoundland . As far as Quebec goes, the unstable
climate created by separatism crippled the province
more than anything else, and the blame for that lies
elsewhere.
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Marelt_Ekiran
Promising
Famous Hero
Watcher of All
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posted March 16, 2005 04:25 PM |
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I was talking about Alberta. Where do you think all the socialist money came from?
As for Quebec, please let them seperate... I yet have to see how they are any benefit to the rest of the nation. They only whine and eat taxpayer money.
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Perception is everything.
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Conan
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 16, 2005 04:59 PM |
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Quote:
I was talking about Alberta. Where do you think all the socialist money came from?
As for Quebec, please let them seperate... I yet have to see how they are any benefit to the rest of the nation. They only whine and eat taxpayer money.
And Albertans don't whine?? LOL J/k.
Alberta is very far from crippled. Because of your oil, you are the only province without debt. In fact, you are the less crippled province in Canada.
Québec benefits Canada by the fact that they are French and part of Canadian Heritage. Also, they support most of Ontario and the Maritimes with renewable electricity.
I understand you are from the Ouest and conservative, as almost all the West-Canadians are. But are you not happy to have a social health system? Trudeau implemented that and it's because of him that you don't have to pay when you go to the hospital. Or would you have it rather be like the States? Privatly owned hospitals that make money off of the sick? - Not me.
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bort
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Discarded foreskin of morality
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posted March 16, 2005 05:08 PM |
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Doesn't the title "Socialists' Lounge" signify ownership of a Lounge? Shouldn't the title of this thread have been "Lounge that is collectively controlled where each is given according to their needs."?
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Drive by posting.
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bort
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Discarded foreskin of morality
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posted March 16, 2005 05:10 PM |
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Privatly owned hospitals that make money off of the sick? - Not me.
Small bone of contention, privately owned hospitals that make money off the sick are not commonplace (although they admittedly exist). The group that is making money off of health care is the insurance industry.
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Drive by posting.
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Conan
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 16, 2005 05:21 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Privatly owned hospitals that make money off of the sick? - Not me.
Small bone of contention, privately owned hospitals that make money off the sick are not commonplace (although they admittedly exist). The group that is making money off of health care is the insurance industry.
Point duly noted. Thanks for the clarification. I appreciate this as we hear all kinds of things here in Canada
But still, anyone making money off the sick are less than honorable.
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Marelt_Ekiran
Promising
Famous Hero
Watcher of All
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posted March 16, 2005 05:29 PM |
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Quote:
Alberta is very far from crippled. Because of your oil, you are the only province without debt. In fact, you are the less crippled province in Canada.
I wasn't talking about now. I was talking about the days of your glorious Pierre Trudeau.
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Québec benefits Canada by the fact that they are French...
I think we need to have a thourough discussion on what the definition of a "benefit" is.
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...and part of Canadian Heritage. Also, they support most of Ontario and the Maritimes with renewable electricity.
Canada has a heritage? Besides... you can take the Maritimes with you and Ontario can get their energy from somewhere else. If having electricity means that we have to support Quebec, then Canada has the highest cost per kwh in the world.
Quote:
I understand you are from the Ouest and conservative, as almost all the West-Canadians are. But are you not happy to have a social health system? Trudeau implemented that and it's because of him that you don't have to pay when you go to the hospital. Or would you have it rather be like the States? Privatly owned hospitals that make money off of the sick? - Not me.
May I just gently remind you that Alberta does have a healthcare system. A pretty good one actually. And what is more... we pay for it on our own, which is why it is called the "Alberta Healthcare Program". In fact, could the federal government please stop interfering in it? It really disturbs our progress.
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Perception is everything.
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Conan
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 16, 2005 05:41 PM |
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Quote:
I think we need to have a thourough discussion on what the definition of a "benefit" is.
Any time you have a different culture to blend with, you are benefitted. The worst you can do is cut yourself off from the rest of the world and sit on top of your money getting mad when you have to give some away to support social programms.
Quote:
Canada has a heritage? Besides... you can take the Maritimes with you and Ontario can get their energy from somewhere else. If having electricity means that we have to support Quebec, then Canada has the highest cost per kwh in the world.
Yes, it does have heritage, that's why we have a ministry of Canadian Heritage, National heritage sites, etc. If you really think Canada does not have heritage, it's because you are not taking part in it, and havent been here long enough from the Netherlands (a great place too by the way).
And I only gave an example, I know you are not foolish enough to think that electricity is the only benefit; I know you understand what I am saying.
Quote:
May I just gently remind you that Alberta does have a healthcare system. A pretty good one actually. And what is more... we pay for it on our own, which is why it is called the "Alberta Healthcare Program". In fact, could the federal government please stop interfering in it? It really disturbs our progress.
I'm not in a postition to tell the federal to stop messing around with your health care. And so what do you do with the money given by Ottawa for national health care? Where does it go?
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The_Workers
Hired Hero
Red Menace of HC
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posted March 16, 2005 11:22 PM |
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Quote:
Doesn't the title "Socialists' Lounge" signify ownership of a Lounge? Shouldn't the title of this thread have been "Lounge that is collectively controlled where each is given according to their needs."?
Comrade, I duly thank you for helping me reveal these so-called "socialists" for what they truly are: Social Democrats!
Yes, that's right! The same bunch of class traitors (if they ever were part of the glorious working class), who allied themselves with the reactionary army in 1919 and crushed the Spartakist Rebellion! The entire Western Europe could have fallen to our, umm, fallen comrades, if the social democrats had had the sense to keep their ambitions for power over the proletariat in rein!
Thus, the Red Army would have been less likely to have halted outside of Warzawa in 1920, and would instead have conquered the entire continent!
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Workers Of All Countries, Unite!
...the ruling ideas are the rulers' ideas...
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terje_the_ma...
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Disciple of Herodotus
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posted March 16, 2005 11:23 PM |
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Please ignore the above poster; he's been reading too much history... And besides, he's clearly got a multiple personality problem...
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"Sometimes I think everyone's just pretending to be brave, and none of us really are. Maybe pretending to be brave is how you get brave, I don't know."
- Grenn, A Storm of Swords.
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted March 17, 2005 01:37 AM |
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I think Canada's pesky little political problems might deserve a place of their own to call home, even though I dont think u'd get past page 1 due to the lack of problematic issues.
Quote:
At least there is some practicality in the socialists
dream world ...gawd, I have to agree with you
for maybe only the second time ever..
Aye.. Was there a first time already? I've got a hole in my head... uhmm, memory.
And the reason why this thread belongs to the socialists, not the society, is the fact that we cant collectively control it, since the collective is still full of crapitalistic pests (refer to some of the above posters). And even when the day comes when we get rid of them, bort still wont be given according to his needs, just because he whines all the time.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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Conan
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 17, 2005 02:27 AM |
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Quote:
I think Canada's pesky little political problems might deserve a place of their own to call home, even though I dont think u'd get past page 1 due to the lack of problematic issues.
I totally agree with you here. Canada is a fine country where people make up problems. Whiners, I call 'em. Never the less, the west of Canada, as you saw, is very conservative and right-wing. The rest is more liberal with some socialist.
Hence, debating issues between me (2 faced socialist) and Malkret (Conservative from Calgary) has it's place here. But perhaps this is not a place to debate, but I warn you that wherever we do our gathering, there will be a conservative coming in to say the contrary and get a rise of at least one of us.
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Your life as it has been is over. From this time forward, you will service.... us. - Star Trek TNG
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This thread is pages long: 
